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Thread: Nice comeback.

  1. #16
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    Re: Nice comeback.

    Quote Originally Posted by HUBison
    Speaking in lay terms though, doesn't this seem.....I don't know, just "not right". You've got a group of people that all believe the same way, sending their kids to a school paid by their taxes, yet they're being told they can't practice their agreed faith in that same institution which is funded by their taxes.
    Would you feel this way if the muncipality's chosen religion was Satanism involving animal sacrifice?

    As for your comment on atheism, I'm not aware of an example of a public school promoting atheism, and I would agree that this is inappropriate as well.

    This issue has been "in vogue" recently because of the recent case involving "intelligent design." For those who did not follow the story, a school board passed legislation requiring teachers to note the existence of gaps in the theory of evolution, to mention the existence of a theory of intelligent design (essentially, the notion that life is too complex to have been an accident and, instead, must be the work of an intelligent designer), and reference texts which address this theory.

    The district court, in what I regard as a great opinion, essentially said - BS!!!!! In a long analysis of the origin of the "intelligent design" theory, the court found that it is merely creationism behind a thin veil of semantics.

    What people (through mere oversight or as a strategy) neglect to mention is that NOTHING in the Constitution discourages or prevents the practice of religion (indeed, it is a right guaranteed by the Constitution). A child who wishes to pray between classes in a public school may do so. Children who wish to discuss the Bible at lunch on public school property may do so.

    However, when the instituion itself sponsors a religion, in any way, a line is crossed.

    That's the law of the land, folks.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -01-10-2006 at 12:49 PM.


  2. #17
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    Re: Nice comeback.

    For those who did not follow the story, a school board passed legislation requiring teachers to note the existence of gaps in the theory of evolution, to mention the existence of a theory of intelligent design (essentially, the notion that life is too complex to have been an accident and, instead, must be the work of an intelligent designer), and reference texts which address this theory.
    I don't have a problem with intelligent design being left out of science. God is not bound by scientific method nor is his creation. So to think we can lump it in with scientific thought is doing it a discredit anyway. However, I am surprised the court would deny to notation of gaps in the macro-evolution theory (which is different from micro-evolution). I mean, the gaps exist, that's not a secret.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Nice comeback.

    The court didn't say that teachers are not allowed to note that the theory of evolution has gaps. Rather, they are prohibitted from suggesting that "intelligent design" fills those gaps.

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    Re: Nice comeback.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    The court didn't say that teachers are not allowed to note that the theory of evolution has gaps. Rather, they are prohibitted from suggesting that "intelligent design" fills those gaps.
    I'm curious as to your (and others) thoughts on this one. If it's too personal, I understand, of course.

    As for me, I believe God created everything. Did he do it in a literal 6 days or a more "poetic" 6 days? Doesn't matter to me. Did he speak everything into existence, or did he use his own biological and geological processes (also his creation) to bring about life using the Genesis story as a symbol? Again, doesn't matter to me.

    For me, it's not "how" the universe was created.....but "who" created. I'm confident in the latter so I'm not overly concerned with the former.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  5. #20
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    Re: Nice comeback.

    To me, questions like that are unimportant. We don't know the answer, and won't in this lifetime.

    To me, the belief in God is not about a belief in an All-Powerful creator. Rather, its about the belief that there is, in fact, right and wrong, and the commitment to live a moral life. Thus, to me, the only true "atheistic" belief system (given that nobody truly considers themselves to be immoral) is the dreaded concept of "moral relativism."

    I'd rather live in a community of people with moral character who are not religious than one populated by religious people who forget that morality is something you practice, not something you merely preach.

    When religion is used for what I believe its intended purpose is - to teach morality - it serves a great purpose in society.

    When it becomes about blind faith and adherence to static rules, I have no use for it.

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    Re: Nice comeback.

    To me, questions like that are unimportant. We don't know the answer, and won't in this lifetime.
    But isn't it the search for those answers that determines HOW we live in this lifetime?

    I see this life as merely temporary. Our goal should be to live our lives here so that we find ourselves with God in the next and eternal life.

    I agree that morality is an important component to being a "good" person, but I also believe that morality is simply a product of living (to the best of our abilities) in accordance with God's will.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Nice comeback.

    I believe that its important to live a moral life whether or not doing so impacts whatever comes after this life. In the end, that is "God's will," as I see it.

    I guess my philosophy is best illustrated by this story:

    Rabbi Hillel was asked if he could teach the entire Torah while his questioner stood on one foot.

    Hillel responded: "That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow man. This is the whole Torah. The rest is commentary. Go and learn it."

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    Re: Nice comeback.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    I believe that its important to live a moral life whether or not doing so impacts whatever comes after this life. In the end, that is "God's will," as I see it.

    I guess my philosophy is best illustrated by this story:

    Rabbi Hillel was asked if he could teach the entire Torah while his questioner stood on one foot.

    Hillel responded: "That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow man. This is the whole Torah. The rest is commentary. Go and learn it."
    I whole-heartedly agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by from Matthew 22
    36. "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
    37. And He said to him, " `YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
    38. "This is the great and foremost commandment.
    39. "The second is like it, `YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  9. #24
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    Re: Nice comeback.

    Why, oh why, did I read this entire thread? It seems to me that the intent of the original post was very lighthearted, one of those, "Kids say the darndest things" sort of anecdotal humorous moments. In response to that, I shall smile reeeeeeeeeeeeeeal big...

    Now, I am almost willing to bet that this whole messy debate (One where there can never be a winner, because, believe it or not, every person in the free world has their own belief system) would have been averted if the original post had ended with the "punchline" instead of posting the entire e-mail.

    Carry on.....
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    Re: Nice comeback.

    Look it was for Humor,but no teacher has the right to tell their students that GOD does not exist,if he or she does, than the comeback is justified.

    My interpretation of the Constitution.

    Seperation of Church and State:The Church can not Impose its will on Government.

    The State cannot impose its will on the Church.

    You can keep religion out of the class room.
    You cannot tell someone he cannot pray or read the Bible,Koran,or the Torah on Campus,and then


    any political speach is OK.As long as its not Conservative. This is the Thought mode today.

    Say anything you want,and I've got the right to sue you for saying it.

    Kind of sounds like Lenin.
    My heart beats crazy and my blood runs wild

  11. #26
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    Re: Nice comeback.

    Quote Originally Posted by psycho9985
    Kind of sounds like Lenin.
    Imagine there's no Heaven.
    Its easy if you try.
    No Hell below us.
    Above us, only sky.

    Oh, wait. Maybe you were talking about a different Lenin.

    Seriously though, given the "hot button" nature of the topic at hand, I belive the discussion has been fairly civil.

  12. #27
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    Re: Nice comeback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger
    Seriously though, given the "hot button" nature of the topic at hand, I belive the discussion has been fairly civil.
    I concur. If you recall, when we were first discussing the idea of a "lounge" forum, we were going to leave out religion and politics, because of the potential for volatility. Well, I'd say we've hit on both of them with pretty calm results, IMHO.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Nice comeback.

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    I concur. If you recall, when we were first discussing the idea of a "lounge" forum, we were going to leave out religion and politics, because of the potential for volatility. Well, I'd say we've hit on both of them with pretty calm results, IMHO.
    Who asked YOU, bonehead!!!!!!!!!

    You see what I did there? I went completely the other way. Man, I hate it when I do that.

  14. #29
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    Re: Nice comeback.

    You guys were civil and Funny,and you made this a Provocative thread in good way.Thanks for your imput.

    Political and Religious discussions can be Healthy and informative.

    Thanks again for proving that.
    My heart beats crazy and my blood runs wild

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    Re: Nice comeback.

    [QUOTE=MOM]Why, oh why, did I read this entire thread? It seems to me that the intent of the original post was very lighthearted, one of those, "Kids say the darndest things" sort of anecdotal humorous moments. In response to that, I shall smile reeeeeeeeeeeeeeal big...

    Sheesh, this was and is and will be my exact sentiments, dang.........

    Man I hate it when the Rams have a crappy season and we have to see this stuff!!!! Who will stop the madness???? LOL

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