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  1. #16
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    There does seem to be a generational element to the diverging opinions here. Of course, you know what they say...

    If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart.
    If you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.


  2. #17
    gap Guest

    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    There does seem to be a generational element to the diverging opinions here. Of course, you know what they say...

    If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart.
    If you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.
    I must be a heartless brain.

    gap

  3. #18
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    Quote Originally Posted by gap
    I'm sorry to tell you this Nick, but you are obviously too young to know of what you speak. You also are probably too close in age to these hoodlums to see how wrong their actions were.
    To be honest, I'm a bit offended at this. As someone majoring in education who has spent time in classrooms, I think I have a pretty good idea of what I speak. Nor do I think you're in a position to tell me what I do and don't know.

    Can we try and discuss this issue without attempting to discredit another person from even being a credible participant in the debate? That'd be great!


    Quote Originally Posted by gap
    If those were the measures that the bus drive felt were necessary to insure the safety of the other passengers, and quite possibly other motorist, then they were called for.
    I disagree. Not only do I think other methods could have defused the situation, but it doesn't make the driver's actions right just because he thinks it was necessary. He could have just sat there and waited it out. He could have radioed the school to call their parents. He could have taken them back to the school to have them wait for their parents there. Lots of better things he could have done instead of shoving around a kid, IMO.
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  4. #19
    gap Guest

    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    To be honest, I'm a bit offended at this. As someone majoring in education who has spent time in classrooms, I think I have a pretty good idea of what I speak. Nor do I think you're in a position to tell me what I do and don't know.

    Can we try and discuss this issue without attempting to discredit another person from even being a credible participant in the debate? That'd be great!




    I disagree. Not only do I think other methods could have defused the situation, but it doesn't make the driver's actions right just because he thinks it was necessary. He could have just sat there and waited it out. He could have radioed the school to call their parents. He could have taken them back to the school to have them wait for their parents there. Lots of better things he could have done instead of shoving around a kid, IMO.
    Sorry, I didn't mean an offense, but I was calling it as I see it. Your zelous attempt at blaming the bus driver more than the criminal teens lends to my belief.

    You will learn as you get older (I hope) that sitting there and taking it only leads to two things. The kind of "explosion" that was video taped, and the continual actions of those that aren't put in their place.

    Also, if you will watch that video again, you will hear that the bus driver attempted to get someone on the radio. The problem is that the biased media that was showing this chose to talk over that part so you couldn't hear what the driver said. They also editted the tape at that point. What did they cut out? Probably the part that caused the driver to react the way that he did.

    If the driver drove for a company/school district like the one I drove for, taking the kids back to the school would NOT be allowed.

    Unfortunately, shoving the kid around is probably just what he needs. He obviously was not taught to respect authority or elders by anyone. Someone needs to teach him respect for authority before he spends the rest of his life living on our tax dollars in some sort of detention center/prison.

    gap

  5. #20
    psycho9985 Guest

    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    Somebody will probably come up with a class on how to ride a bus:this will impower schools to lobby for more money for new teachers to be qualified to teach it.Then all bus drivers will have to go to some sort of senslesstivity class on how to deal with unruley students,and that will cost more money to get qualified councellors to conduct that,and when that fails they'll throw more money at the programs.
    Last edited by psycho9985; -05-24-2005 at 09:42 PM.

  6. #21
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    Quote Originally Posted by gap
    Your zelous attempt at blaming the bus driver more than the criminal teens lends to my belief.
    That's because I expect an adult to have more self control and maturity than to do something like that. The kid who threw the punch needs to be punished accordingly, but I don't believe it would have escilated to that at all had the bus driver not initiated contact as he had. And I refuse to believe there were not other alternatives that could have been taken besides physically grabbing the kid in the manner the driver did. He didn't just take the kid's arm and give him a little tug. It looked like a pretty violent grab and shake/push job to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by gap
    Also, if you will watch that video again, you will hear that the bus driver attempted to get someone on the radio.
    More power to him if it was the police, the school, or someone who could get in contact with the kids' parents. That's definitely the course of action I would have taken, but instead of defusing the bomb, he set it off by shoving the kids around and trying to take it further.


    Quote Originally Posted by gap
    Unfortunately, shoving the kid around is probably just what he needs.
    Perhaps, but that lesson shouldn't be taught by a bus driver, but rather a parent, IMO.
    Last edited by Nick; -05-24-2005 at 09:14 PM.
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  7. #22
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    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    I think it is what society has come to at this point. When I was a kid, most kids had much more discipline and respect for authority. Probably out of fear of their parents. The old saying, "spare the rod and spoil the child" comes to mind. Today, the laws severely limit how you can discipline your children. Many, but not all, parents of today lose control of their kids because of this shift in society's beliefs and expectations.

    I have nothing but respect for teachers, bus drivers, day care providers, etc. that have to deal with the many unrulley and disrespectful kids they come in contact with daily. I don't think I would have the patience.

    In the old days, the bus driver wouldn't have been the bad guy. Today he is according to society. Therefore, he shouldn't have touched them as Nick suggests. Although, like gap, I understand why he did what he did. He's from the old school and will get in trouble and probably lose his job for his lack of restraint.

  8. #23
    psycho9985 Guest

    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    You ought to try living in the peoples republic of california:You look at a kid cross eyed and you go to jail.:upset:

  9. #24
    gap Guest

    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    That's because I expect an adult to have more self control and maturity than to do something like that. The kid who threw the punch needs to be punished accordingly, but I don't believe it would have escilated to that at all had the bus driver not initiated contact as he had. And I refuse to believe there were not other alternatives that could have been taken besides physically grabbing the kid in the manner the driver did. He didn't just take the kid's arm and give him a little tug. It looked like a pretty violent grab and shake/push job to me.
    First off, a even mature adult can only take so much. Second, for what they pay bus drivers, they can't expect too much. I have actually seen school districts have police officers ride busses. MAybe that should be done hear? We don't know that the bus driver initiated contact. We only know that the EDITTED VIDEO shows that he did. It also wouldn't have been that violent of a grab if the kid hadn't struggled against him. The bus driver was just applying enough pressure to overcome the resistance.


    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    More power to him if it was the police, the school, or someone who could get in contact with the kids' parents. That's definitely the course of action I would have taken, but instead of defusing the bomb, he set it off by shoving the kids around and trying to take it further.
    Unfortunatley, we don't know that the bus driver started it. We do know that the EDITTED VIDEO show that he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Perhaps, but that lesson shouldn't be taught by a bus driver, but rather a parent, IMO.
    If someone in the past would have, we wouldn't be discussing this now.

    gap

  10. #25
    psycho9985 Guest

    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    You know since these people put out the story it was edited.Check fox for the real deal.

  11. #26
    RealRam's Avatar
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    LET'S GROW UP pronto, please. Or else...

    ...That lesson shouldn't be taught by a bus driver, but rather a parent, IMO. --NickSeiler
    "If someone in the past would have, we wouldn't be discussing this now. --Gap"

    Precisely the point, of course. :tough: I must agree with Nick's quote though.

    As far as I'm concerned, there are two issues here, quite clear in distinction by the way.

    1. Bus driver clearly out of line.

    Unless the young punk had physically threatened others aboard, the driver has no right to turn on the foolish youngster the way he did. It was not just a 'grab', the video clealy shows violent grabbing / shaking of the neck (unfortunately, this 'proves' here that the adult has not only reached an explosion to restrain the stupid teenager but is also himself venting frustration).

    Yes, as stated by others, even some of us parents have to be 'careful' with the way we discipline our own children. As Viper3 said, "The old saying, "spare the rod and spoil the child" comes to mind." Unfortunately, today it is preferably know as 'abuse'. To OUR OWN offspring.

    Nonetheless, I'd be steaming mad if I saw someone else physically punishing my own kids. But I will have to be factual and (after taking a reasonable amount of time or 1000 deep breaths), consider the cause, the inner motives.

    Which raises the indepth and inevitable question, am I conscientious of the way my wife and I have brought up our [two] children? Are we too proud to admit we could have done better? Can I see and realize that my child's behavior is such that it infuriates an adult to the point of real violence on the part of that person? If so, then at least I shouldn't get defensive!

    If the latter scenario were the case, then I must recognize my own failure in bringing up decent civilians instead of bully brats. Yes, fire the depressed or disgruntled bus driver (presumably screened); but also, let this be a flashing light warning that I, as the child's parent, need to improve my parenting skills, pronto!

    Hellooo? :O

    2. That young fool also needs to GROW UP, pronto!

    Hopefully he will soon (the sooner the better) see that regardless of the bus driver's actions -- and I reiterate, I do not condone how this man reacted and what he did -- this boy's own disrespect, lack of discipline and downright dumbness, needs to be corrected. He may have been protecting his younger brother on the bus at the time, or just being stupid. He should know better by now.

    Sure, the kid may, in effect, be a victim of the times, a victim of poor parenting skills, perhaps a victim of poverty, of his neighbors, of too much TV, maybe even drugs, etc.X3. Signs of the Times. Granted.

    The point is this: once you realize you have been a victim, that is the moment it becomes YOUR responsibility to do something about it.

    No, it is not easy. It may take years to abandon wrong paradigms, habits or attitudes. But why continue to make it difficult to yourself and to others (bus drivers, etc.X3).

    We know of what our friend Leonard Little is going trough. And I believe he's a good, honest man. Here he is, at thirtysomething, successful at what he does and still, trying to correct his notion of what is right and wrong in life.

    Or else...
    Last edited by RealRam; -05-25-2005 at 01:02 AM. Reason: Syntax

  12. #27
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    Quote Originally Posted by gap
    We don't know that the bus driver initiated contact. We only know that the EDITTED VIDEO shows that he did.

    ...

    Unfortunatley, we don't know that the bus driver started it. We do know that the EDITTED VIDEO show that he did.
    I don't see your point at all. We have to go by what we've seen, and what we watched was the bus driver being the first to make contact. I think you're way out in left field if you think we should ignore what we saw because the video was edited. All we have are the facts presented to us, and according to those facts, the bus driver initiated first contact.
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  13. #28
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    Quote Originally Posted by maineram
    the kid has a felony charge of striking a person over 65, ( he's 66), and another for striking a school department member.
    Out of curiosity, how accurate is that? Were you guessing or would those be the actual charges?
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  14. #29
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    The uncut video...

    http://uselessjunk.com/modules.php?n...der=0&thold=-1

    Well, obviously the uncut video shows the kids being more of punks than the cut video, and the kid jumping up and yelling out "Hey mother f*****!" was a stupid move and obviously was more than him just checking out what was going on. It's not that I don't sympathize with the driver, because I can understand his frustration. But I still don't see any justification for what he did, especially since the tape makes it clear that he called for police back-up.

    My question is this: why does the bus driver call for a deputy and then go to confront the kid anyway? By calling for a deputy, he shows he has no problem sitting there waiting for help to handle the situation. So why not wait for it? The guy got in over his head, and that incident resulted.

    Obviously the kids have an attitude and need to be put in line, but that's the job of the parents, or at worst, the cops. If the driver is going to call in for a deputy, then he should have waited for him so he didn't risk putting himself in an even worse situation. What happens if after he grabs the kid, he gets assaulted and knocked out? Now who's in charge of the bus? Who's in charge of the kids? What happens if one of the kids think they can drive the bus home? The bus driver was correct for pulling over and calling the cops. But I think he crossed the line with his language (don't see any reason to cuss at the kids, keep your cool, man) and by trying to take physical action alone.
    Last edited by Nick; -05-25-2005 at 01:30 AM.
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  15. #30
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    Re: School bus driver wails on some kids

    Wow, it certainly is the offseason. :redface:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    So you're saying we should expect kids to never ever act like a smart ass at any time?

    Don't hold your breath.
    There's a difference between expect and accept. There's also a difference between smart donkey and violent felon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    As an education major who has spent time in classrooms, I can tell you that first hand. Even the most well behaved and well mannered kids have their moments.
    And as a former high school teacher I know that I would not have accepted behavior like that displayed by those two boys. Nick, when you get your own classroom, you will find that kids tend to live up to the minimum standard that the teacher expects of them. They may not like a high standard, but if established and consistently executed they will live up to the lower boundary of that standard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    Perhaps, but that lesson shouldn't be taught by a bus driver, but rather a parent, IMO.
    Though I agree with you Nick, here's the part where I won't be holding my breath.




    That whole "I'm okay, you're okay" crap is biting another generation in the butt.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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