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Thread: SiCKO

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    SiCKO

    Anyone see Sicko? I think this could be a very historical motion picture if we really try to do something about corrupt health care.



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    Re: SiCKO

    There isn't enough money to get me to see anything that Michael Moore puts out. Either you're making a documentary, or its fiction. You can't have both.

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    Re: SiCKO

    Sicko is about health care? I thought it was about Michael Moore.

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    Re: SiCKO

    A 0.001 second Google search will give you an entire list of critics who show that Moore got his facts completely wrong. Even the Toronto newspaper (left-leaning to say the least) says Moore's movie is inaccurate.

    Health care is a concern, I'm sure. I have my opinion which I will keep to myself since this isn't a political forum. However, whether Moore is actually concerned for the uninsured or he is just pushing his anti-individualistic socialist agenda, he should at least be honest with his movie-goers.
    Last edited by HUbison; -07-07-2007 at 11:19 AM.
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    Re: SiCKO

    I think this is a movie where everyone can agree with one another. Take out the whole I hate Moore out of your system and go see it for the sake of seeing how crappy America's healthcare system can be for some people. I'm sure Moore has said bogus things in the past, but this movie should be an agreeable film from any partie's point of view. Obviously when we're 37th in the World for healthcare, there is definitely a problem. If Michael Moore didn't write this and the same movie came out, would you see it? It's controversial, and needs to be seen by everyone. I don't think this movie is about Moore's anti-American views, if anything I think he's trying to help show people that WE as a country need to do something about our healthcare. As the best country in the world, we should as hell better keep that reputation and how can we do that when we throw people out of cars (who can't afford to stay in hospitals) and make them find a hospital on their own? Our country starts with our people, and to see how we take care of one another through healthcare is very scary...


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    Re: SiCKO

    Varg, I understand and appreciate the concern you show. However, you are assuming that what Moore has presented is true even in its most basic assertions. It doesn't take much research to find out that's not true.

    And yes, Moore is un-American from the sense that free market capitalism is American. He has stated over and over again, that universal state-run health care is the answer. That is the exact opposite of free market capitalism, and in my opinion completely un-American. Oddly enough, one of the most booming industries in Canada is the private (yet illegal) healthcare clinics that are getting people the care they need instead of the government run clinics that people are literally dying to get in to while they wait for service.

    I've already said more than I should have, but I will leave you with this link. It's written by a Canadian who appeared in Michael Moore's film. It's certainly worth a read.
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    Re: SiCKO

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Either you're making a documentary, or its fiction. You can't have both.
    Actually, he can. He's a filmmaker making a film. So really, he can do whatever he wants to do, as long as it's okay with his production company. Maybe that sucks for the people working at Blockbuster who have concerns about what shelf to stick this movie on, but ultimately filmmakers do what they (and the studio) want. He can have it however many ways they'll allow.

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    And yes, Moore is un-American from the sense that free market capitalism is American. He has stated over and over again, that universal state-run health care is the answer. That is the exact opposite of free market capitalism, and in my opinion completely un-American.
    I haven't seen Moore's movie and I'm not at all convinced that socialized health care is the way to go, but I think it's treading thin ice to claim that a state-run or government-run program is un-American because it works against free market capitalism. Where is the line drawn with that position? Are police departments and post offices un-American as well? At what point do you distinguish with what the government and state need to take care of and what they should stay out of?

    The worst thing people can do is hear about this movie and completely dismiss it simply because it's made by Michael Moore. You don't have to agree with Moore's opinion of the health care system and solution as presented in Sicko, but hopefully the movie gets us talking about the issue and on track to fixing the problems that do exist in our system as nonpartisanly (?) as possible.
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    Re: SiCKO

    I think it's treading thin ice to claim that a state-run or government-run program is un-American because it works against free market capitalism.
    Since you asked, yes, I do think it's un-American for a government to outlaw private industry (as Canada has done with healthcare), and set up a government run monopoly. Some things the government necessarily have to run.....military and law enforcement being two examples. There's no way around that. There's not a private industry function that can handle the national needs presented with those two concerns.

    As for the post office, it's not analogous. If the government were to outlaw UPS, Fed Ex, DHL, etc., in order to be the only mail service option, that would be un-American as well.
    The worst thing people can do is hear about this movie and completely dismiss it simply because it's made by Michael Moore.
    Make no mistake. I dismiss not for who presented it, but the inaccuracies presented held up as fact.
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    Re: SiCKO

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    The worst thing people can do is hear about this movie and completely dismiss it simply because it's made by Michael Moore. You don't have to agree with Moore's opinion of the health care system and solution as presented in Sicko, but hopefully the movie gets us talking about the issue and on track to fixing the problems that do exist in our system as nonpartisanly (?) as possible.
    Exactly. Honestly, I don't care if a) Moore lied about everything in this film and/or b) someone else made this film.

    Either which way I'd want to see it because it could affect anyone of us. There is a serious issue here regardless of who is showing us the issue. The truth of the matter is, there must be something done with healthcare because too many people are being affected (in a bad way) by it.


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    Re: SiCKO

    Michael Moore has made a living out of manipulating and distorting facts to fit his agenda. I now make it a point to not support anything he does. Perhaps I'll see it when it comes to a movie channel or maybe a bootleg, but there's no way I spend one red cent to help fill his coffers, end of story.

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    Re: SiCKO

    I will not knowingly add to Micheal Moore's bank account in any way. I don't know if I would bother to watch it were it to come to the airwaves near me or not.

    The problem is (from what I hear and read), is that it is presented as a documentary in which the information is supposedly factual but seems to essentially be personal opinion.

    I have family in Canada (Saskatoon). My brother-in-law's wife suffers from sever (debilitating) migraines and she was on a list for close to 2 years just for an MRI.

    I guess I am "lucky" I make too much to qualify for free or subsidized health care. If one thinks they are "lucky" if they have to pay out almost $1K a month for insurance they hope they never need. If health insurance were not a necessary evil I might be able to make house payments. But then again I might have to pay taxes at a rate of 50% or better in order to pay for universal health care, as I hear Canada and Britain do.

    As far as a government running anything efficiently, I have heard of mail services being closed down as only the USPS has the legal right to access mailboxes. The concern being that the USPS services EVERYONE where a competitor would concentrate, if not exclusively, service denser populations as it is more cost effective.

    UPS, DHL, Fed-Ex, etc are Parcel Delivery services and probably help to keep USPS rates lower than they might otherwise be.

    Has anyone ever heard of AMTRAK being self-supporting?

    How improved is the airport screening process since the screeners were made federal employees?

    IMHO this is still the greatest nation on God's green earth, but there is still room for improvement.
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    Re: SiCKO

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Some things the government necessarily have to run.....military and law enforcement being two examples.
    I agree, and while I'm not convinced complete socialized medicine is the way to go, I can't help but feel that it's also at least in some way the government's responsibility to protect its citizenry medically as well as with a military and law enforcement. I don't think that means there isn't room for free market capitalism within that kind of system, but it would seem to me that one of our main medical priorities should be making sure every citizen in this country is capable of getting the help they need.

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    I dismiss not for who presented it, but the inaccuracies presented held up as fact.
    Can you provide a list of those inaccuracies? Since I haven't seen the movie, I'd like to know what I should be looking for when I watch it. And since I'm packing to return home from vacation, I don't have the 0.001 seconds to search Google at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Michael Moore has made a living out of manipulating and distorting facts to fit his agenda.
    There are many more important and more regularly watched/listened to people in this country making a living out of that than Michael Moore, though. I'm curious as to why Moore is so vehemently hated while others (whom I'll refrain from naming specifically so we don't get too political here) are tolerated.
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    Re: SiCKO

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    There are many more important and more regularly watched/listened to people in this country making a living out of that than Michael Moore, though. I'm curious as to why Moore is so vehemently hated while others (whom I'll refrain from naming specifically so we don't get too political here) are tolerated.
    Are you asking me this question or just making a general statement? I'm not sure how you make the assumption as to who I do or don't tolerate, other than Moore. I certainly don't prescribe to any structured way of thinking and judge individuals as just that, individuals.

    As an individual, Michael Moore is a shameless propagandist who will use any means to try and further his personal agenda. That I don't tolerate or support in anyone, regardless of where they stand in the political or philisophical spectrum.

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    Re: SiCKO

    Honestly, I didn't make this thread to fight at all. I understand a lot of people hate Michael Moore, and that is fine, I couldn't care less. However, some of the movie does provide some truth, such as over 50 million Americans not getting health insurance, and us being 37th ranked in the world for healthcare. That is a serious problem in which I believe any American can agree upon with another fellow American. There's always two sides to every story, but when it deals with our people not getting the care they deserve, there's something wrong. We as people in America should do something about it rather than argue why Moore is such an idiot for making another movie/documentary. That is the shame in all of this, really...We have a movie come out about healthcare and people's lives are obviously being at risk (over 50 million lives) and we sit here and argue about Moore and how stupid he is. I think we can be good people, but jeeez, are our morals wrong or what?


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    Re: SiCKO

    Quote Originally Posted by Varg6 View Post
    Honestly, I didn't make this thread to fight at all. I understand a lot of people hate Michael Moore, and that is fine, I couldn't care less. However, some of the movie does provide some truth, such as over 50 million Americans not getting health insurance, and us being 37th ranked in the world for healthcare. That is a serious problem in which I believe any American can agree upon with another fellow American. There's always two sides to every story, but when it deals with our people not getting the care they deserve, there's something wrong. We as people in America should do something about it rather than argue why Moore is such an idiot for making another movie/documentary. That is the shame in all of this, really...We have a movie come out about healthcare and people's lives are obviously being at risk (over 50 million lives) and we sit here and argue about Moore and how stupid he is. I think we can be good people, but jeeez, are our morals wrong or what?
    You make some good points and I have no doubt that your intentions are admirable. Health care definitely has problems that need to be addressed, but I certainly don't need to see a Michael Moore film to tell me that, nor would I expect what he had to say as being even-handed.

    Michael Moore is a lightning rod because of his unethical practices, so it's inevitable that any discussion involving one of his movies is going to elicit the types of responses you've seen.

    Good discussion regardless.

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