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Tip Sheet: Tebow impresses Herock

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  • Tip Sheet: Tebow impresses Herock

    Tip Sheet: Tebow impresses Herock
    By Len Pasquarelli
    ESPN.com
    Friday, January 22, 2010

    In nine years of preparing draft-eligible players for the interview process at the NFL combine, Ken Herock has worked with more than 500 players, including 40 quarterbacks, readying them for the crucial Q-and-A session that each prospect must undergo at the February audition in Indianapolis.

    But never has Herock -- a longtime talent evaluator who spent most of his 40 seasons in the league as a personnel director or general manager -- encountered a product like Florida QB Tim Tebow.

    In an unsolicited phone call to ESPN.com earlier this week, Herock, who worked with Tebow for several hours, uncharacteristically gushed about the Gators' star.

    "He's by far the best [prospect] with whom I've ever worked," said Herock, who operates "Pro Prep," a popular service that simulates a combine interview and familiarizes players on the subjects with which they will be confronted by league scouts. "He walks into a room and he just energizes it. Whatever 'it' is, he's definitely got 'it.' … Even for a guy like me, who's done this for so long, you almost get goosebumps."

    The 2007 Heisman Trophy winner, and one of the most celebrated players in recent college history, Tebow has received decidedly mixed predictions about his NFL future from critics evaluating the 2010 talent pool. Most rate him behind at least two quarterback prospects, Jimmy Clausen of Notre Dame and Oklahoma's Sam Bradford, and some have him rated even with Colt McCoy of Texas. Citing his low delivery and an elongated release, critics contend that Tebow lacks the physical skills that will make him a first-round selection.

    Others suggest Tebow must play another position -- fullback, H-back or perhaps linebacker or safety -- in the NFL. It conjures up memories of 2001 Heisman winner Eric Crouch of Nebraska, a college quarterback drafted by the St. Louis Rams in the third round in 2002 as a wide receiver. He failed to make it at that position or at safety.

    The four-hour tutorial designed by Herock doesn't necessarily deal with a player's athletic skills. But Herock has long believed that a top-flight quarterback is necessary to win in the NFL, and during his league career, he drafted prominent passers such as Doug Williams, Steve Young, Chris Miller and Brett Favre. He has an estimable track record at the game's most difficult position. This week he took some time out to watch and evaluate Tebow on the practice field.

    Tebow is working on his physical skills with former NFL quarterback Zeke Bratkowski. Onetime NFL quarterbacks coach Marc Trestman, currently head coach of the CFL's Montreal Alouettes, has worked some with Tebow at the blackboard on the mental part and X's and O's of the game. After playing in coach Urban Meyer's spread offense, in which the quarterback is almost never directly under center, Tebow has been working on taking the snap more conventionally.

    Herock believes Tebow is making solid progress in addressing what are generally perceived as his physical shortcomings, and noted that his intangibles are hard to ignore.

    Said Herock: "His release might be a little low at this point, but a lot of people talked about Philip Rivers' delivery too before he was drafted, and look at what he's done. I've heard all the supposed [negatives]. But I watched [Tebow] on the field and his velocity is good enough, and so is his accuracy. As far as his learning, you don't have to tell him anything twice. And he's a student of the game. I recommended that he watch some tapes of Steve Young, and he said, 'Oh, I've already done that.' He wants to be good. He wants to succeed. And he will succeed."

    In some ways, Herock said, Tebow reminds him of Favre, whom he took in the second round of the 1991 draft in Atlanta. The Florida star probably doesn't have Favre's brashness, noted Herock, but his presence is beyond charismatic.

    "I've seen him on TV and heard all the stuff about him, and you think to yourself, 'It's too good to be all be true,'" Herock said. "But there is nothing phony about him at all. He's about as genuine as you can get. If there was one word I would use to describe him, it would be 'winner.'

    "People will have to convince me he's not a quarterback and that he won't succeed."


    Alternative pursuits

    His critics aside, Tim Tebow will probably play quarterback in the NFL. There are, however, some franchises that might try the University of Florida star at a different position. Here are some former college quarterbacks who switched positions in the NFL in recent seasons and experienced mixed results:

    Josh Cribbs (undrafted, Cleveland, 2005): The former Kent State quarterback is arguably the most electrifying kick returner in the league. The five-year veteran has returned eight kickoffs and one punt for touchdowns, and led the NFL this year for players with more than 40 kickoff returns, posting a 27.5-yard average.

    Julian Edelman (seventh round, New England, 2009): Some felt the Patriots chose Edelman, a three-year starter at Kent State, to operate a Wildcat offense. But he developed into a solid slot receiver and punt returner. Edelman had 37 catches for 359 yards in the regular season, then replaced an injured Wes Welker in the playoffs. He had six catches for 44 yards and two touchdowns in the Patriots' wild-card loss.

    Matt Jones (first round, Jacksonville, 2005): He was nicknamed "The Freak" after he was timed at 4.37 seconds in the 40-yard dash before the 2005 draft. In his four seasons with the Jaguars, the former Arkansas quarterback played in 54 games, with 15 starts. He had 166 receptions for 2,153 yards and 15 touchdowns, and led the team with 65 catches in 2008. He was released by the Jags this past March after he was arrested twice in eight months for drug- or alcohol-related charges. Currently out of the league.

    Brad Smith (fourth round, New York Jets, 2006): He has become the team's jack-of-many-trades. Smith has played in 60 games and has 60 catches for 513 yards and two touchdowns, and also has 24 kickoff returns for a 22.3-yard average and one score. He has operated the Wildcat, rushing 60 times for 468 yards. He was a four-year starter at Missouri.

    Isaiah Stanback (fourth round, Dallas, 2007): He started 19 games at the University of Washington in 2005-06. He was waived by Dallas this past September, signed to the New England practice squad and then elevated in November to the active roster. He has only five receptions for 46 yards in his career, and has returned 13 kickoffs for a 22.8-yard average.


    Len Pasquarelli, a recipient of the Pro Football Hall of Fame's McCann Award for distinguished reporting, is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

  • #2
    Re: Tip Sheet: Tebow impresses Herock

    I'm sure the history of the NFL is filled with "nice guys" who interviewed very well but didn't have the physical tools to make it. Maybe he'll do fine, I don't know, I'm not talent scout. But when people that do this for a living (scouts) raise very serious questions about how well his skills translate to the NFL, I have to imagine they know what they're talking about. He'll probably be grabbed by one team higher than most believe he should go, I don't think it will be the Rams though. Too many other holes to fill than "project QB/can he play other positions?"

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Tip Sheet: Tebow impresses Herock

      Originally posted by Nick View Post
      As far as his learning, you don't have to tell him anything twice. And he's a student of the game.
      So does that mean the QB coach at Florida never taught him how to throw a correct spiral, and never showed him that you shouldn't pull the ball below your waist before you throw it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Tip Sheet: Tebow impresses Herock

        So he rolled a 20 on his charisma score.

        He rolled an 8 on "mechanics"

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Tip Sheet: Tebow impresses Herock

          Originally posted by PeoriaRam View Post
          So he rolled a 20 on his charisma score.

          He rolled an 8 on "mechanics"
          saving throw failed

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Tip Sheet: Tebow impresses Herock

            I think he definetely COULD do well. He has the dedication, smarts, ability, and intangibles to be good. Will he do good? anyone's guess and noone can give you the answer knowingly? Will he be a Ram? No, almost certainly...no. Can't afford the risk of project quarterback and I wouldn't want him anywhere else.

            Why draft a guy for a position change when you can just draft a guy who actually PLAYS that position..

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Tip Sheet: Tebow impresses Herock

              This evaluation demonstrates exactly why I DON'T want Tebow.

              Most of the comments are based upon Tebow's persona, history and image. When it comes to the important things like velocity and accuracy, the rating is merely "good enough."

              If a scout watched Tebow throwing the ball wearing a nondescript uniform that hid his identity, I'm betting the scout would say, "maybe we should try this guy at another position."

              Comment

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              • npow81
                Where there's a will...there's a....
                by npow81
                Tim Tebow???? Really wait what am I doing

                OK. First off I cannot believe I am saying this. Trust me, I am the absolute last person that I thought would be saying (believe me the LAST).

                I have previously scoffed at any indication that we or anyone else should take Tim Tebow anywhere before the fourth round, basically considering the notion of it proposterous given the bevy of transitional problems that Tebow presents.

                However, I watched some of his interviews at the Senior Bowl, and one thing is so clear it can not be denied, Tebow makes you believe that if there is any possible, conceivable way that he can be a successful NFL qb, that he will do it.

                While this is admirable, it alone, by no means makes you an NFL qb.

                Interviews notwithstanding after the Senior Bowl, I left basically in the same position I was before, and his performance did nothing to disprove my long-standing belief that he was NOT an NFL qb. It just did not seem possible to me that he could discard all his bad habits and limitations in order to be a successful NFL qb.

                However, the recent news that he is diligently trying to transition, and willing to do whatever it takes to change and make those transitions, makes me believe that maybe this whole Tebow as an NFL qb thing might be possible.

                This willingness to change, and unbelievable work ethic is truly unique and separates Tebow from almost everyone before that has been unsuccessful due to transitional problems in that he is willing, and ready to do whatever possible to ensure success, and does not cling to the fact that he was a Heisman winner or that doing what he had been doing his life and been successful thus far.

                Being a man of the law, I'll use a legal reference

                For Clausen and Bradford, most PRESUME they will be successful, and that presumption is attempted to be overcome be positions of doubt. In the end, attempting to overcome the presumption is usually not successful.

                For Tebow, most PRESUME, that he will but unsuccessful, and that presumption is attempted to be overcome by positions, to show he will be successful. In the end, again it is difficult to overcome this position.

                So I guess my point is maybe we shouldn't presume Tebow will be unsuccessful and take and intermediate position that Tebow's transition to the NFL MIGHT be possible, so I return to my previous position, that if it is possible, Tebow might, just might, be able to make it happen.

                In the end, I say we proceed in the following manner

                If Tebow's mechanics, etc. show significant improvement before the draft (and we should bring him in for private workouts as much as possible) we strongly consider taking him at the top of the second.

                If Tebow shows moderate improvement, we strongly consider taking him in the third.

                If only minor improvement, we consider taking...
                -02-23-2010, 03:35 AM
              • Guest's Avatar
                Tebow to unveil new delivery at pro day
                by Guest
                By Adam Schefter
                ESPN
                Tim Tebow is, essentially, painting over the masterpiece he created at the University of Florida.
                In an effort to quiet his critics and refine his game, Tebow is changing the way he holds a football, shifting it from his waist to his shoulder. He is concentrating on taking three- and five-step drops instead of working out of the shotgun formation he used at Florida.
                He will not unveil Tebow 2.0 at this week's scouting combine in Indianapolis, preferring instead to wait for his pro day at the University of Florida on March 17.
                But until then, he will continue working on improving his fundamentals in an effort to improve his draft position and his game.

                Cliff Welch/Icon SMI Tim Tebow, throwing a pass in Senior Bowl practice last month, hopes to improve his draft stock with a new approach that includes drop-back passing.



                "I'm not changing who I am or how I approach football," Tebow said Sunday night from Nashville, Tenn., where he has been busy remaking the style that was good enough to win one Heisman Trophy and two national championships at Florida.
                "But there are things that I can get a lot better at -- my fundamentals. I've never been asked to shorten or quicken my release and not have a loop in it. The changes I'm making have gone very well and it's becoming more and more natural to me."
                Asked if he would have embarked on such an extensive and exhausting process had his performance at the Senior Bowl not been so roundly criticized, Tebow said: "Probably, just because of the quarterback coaches I've been working with. I want to get better. I want to be around people who will push me. I will do anything to get better. Without hearing the criticism, I would have done it.
                "It's made me more confident, more accurate. And that's not to say I haven't had this type of coaching in the past. I just have had different coaching than this NFL style."
                Tebow has been tutored in a pro-style way by working with a coaching team that includes former NFL offensive coordinator Zeke Bratkowski, Montreal Alouettes head coach Marc Trestman, Arizona State's new offensive coordinator Noel Mazzone and former NFL head coach Sam Wyche.
                Bratkowski has concentrated on getting Tebow to raise the football to where it now does not dip lower than his shoulder. The delivery that allowed Tebow to complete over 67 percent of his passes at Florida but the one that also was roundly questioned during and after the Senior Bowl has begun to be made over at the pre-draft workouts in Nashville.
                Much of the work has started with Tebow's feet, which were accustomed to working out of a shotgun offense. Bratkowski and others have drilled Tebow on the requisite footwork that he will need to become a successful NFL quarterback.
                “ You're not looking at the same quarterback. To say we're there 100 percent where we want to
                ...
                -02-22-2010, 05:16 PM
              • MauiRam
                St. Louis Rams Should Have Taken Chance on Tim Tebow Instead of Signing Retreads ..
                by MauiRam
                By Dustin Nosler2 hours ago

                The Rams could use the media coverage that comes with a Tim Tebow signing.


                COMMENTARY |The St. Louis Rams' season essentially ended when Sam Bradford went down with a torn anterior cruciate ligament after the Oct. 20 game against the Carolina Panthers.

                Kellen Clemens is going to start this week for the Rams, which doesn't bode well for anyone but the opponent (Seattle Seahawks).

                In response to the injury, the Rams this week signed former Ram Austin Davis and former Cleveland Browns' and Kansas City Chiefs' quarterback Brady Quinn. Davis is widely unknown while Quinn is what he is -- a below-average NFL quarterback.

                So, why not take a chance on "quarterback" Tim Tebow?

                Let me preface this by saying I am in no way a Tebow fan. He's the most overrated, over-covered professional athlete in the last 20 years. He might even be the most overrated pro ever in any sport. But the Rams really don't have much to lose, other than more games.

                Tebow began his career with the Denver Broncos and promptly led them to the AFC Divisional Round in his second season. He was traded to the New York Jets (with the Rams reportedly having interest) after the Broncos signed Peyton Manning. Tebow barely played in New York and was cut by the New England Patriots prior to the 2013 season.

                Tebow can't really throw. His arm is strong enough to play the position -- unfortunately, he doesn't have the accuracy, throwing motion and footwork for the position. Despite this, I still would like to have seen the Rams take a flyer on him.

                The Rams are 3-4 with a loss upcoming against the soon-to-be 7-1 Seahawks. The San Francisco ***** are 5-2 and should have no trouble with the Jacksonville Jaguars in London. There's no way the Rams are winning the division and they're behind a few teams for a wild card spot. I'm not saying they should tank the rest of the season, but there needs to be a reason fans show up to the Edward Jones Dome and turn on the game at home every week.

                Tebow would bring media coverage to a team that could use it. There is some good, young talent on the Rams' team (mostly on the defensive side of the ball). Those guys could get exposure, while the Rams' poor offensive line could tick up with Tebow under center (or in the shotgun).

                If there's one thing Tebow can do, it's run the ball. His mobility could minimize the underperforming line (I'm looking at you, Jake Long). The Rams have one of the worst running games in the NFL, but Zac Stacy has been solid in his three starts so far. Adding Tebow to the ground attack could improve it (while the passing game would suffer mightily).

                And who knows -- maybe the Rams would catch the proverbial lightning in a bottle and Tebow could duplicate "his" success in Denver. The Rams have the ability defense...
                -10-24-2013, 11:42 AM
              • ramsanddodgers
                Tebow Released
                by ramsanddodgers
                New York Post
                Jets release Tim Tebow

                By BRIAN COSTELLO

                Last Updated: 9:31 AM, April 29, 2013

                Posted: 8:01 AM, April 29, 2013

                Tebow Time is up.

                The Jets released popular backup quarterback Tim Tebow on Monday morning, The Post has learned. The move comes three days after they drafted Geno Smith in the second round to compete with Mark Sanchez, David Garrard and Greg McElroy for the starting quarterback spot.

                It ends Tebow’s 13 months as a Jet that were more memorable for all of the headlines than anything that actually happened on the field. The Jets acquired him from the Broncos in March 2012 for a fourth-round draft pick (the two teams also swapped later draft picks).

                The Jets confirmed the news with a press release that included a quote from coach Rex Ryan.

                “We have a great deal of respect for Tim Tebow,” Ryan said in the statement. “Unfortunately, things did not work out the way we all had hoped. Tim is an extremely hard worker, evident by the shape he came back in this offseason. We wish him the best moving forward.”

                Tebow reported to the Jets training center in Florham Park to work out this morning, according to a source. Before he made it to the weight room, he was summoned to general manager John Idzik’s office where he was informed of his release by Idzik and Ryan.

                The arrival of Tebow last year was marked by a splashy news conference that irritated some who believed the Jets were making too big a deal of a backup quarterback. The Jets sold the move by saying they would use Tebow in a variety of roles, including running the wildcat formation, but it never worked.

                Tebow played just over 70 snaps on offense. He also served as the personal protector on the punt team until injuring his ribs in November. He completed 6-of-8 passes for 39 yards and ran the ball 32 times for 102 yards. He did not score a touchdown.

                The Tebow acquisition had far-reaching consequences. Former offensive coordinator Tony Sparano never figured out how to use Tebow, and it cost him his job. Former general manager Mike Tannenbaum lost his job after the season in part because of the Tebow trade. Starting quarterback Mark Sanchez also regressed greatly in 2012, and many believe Tebow’s presence contributed to that.

                It was a comedown for the Heisman Trophy winner from 2011 when he led the Broncos to a division title. But after the team picked up Peyton Manning, Tebow hit the trading block and the Jets grabbed him.

                Tebow’s time in New York will be remembered for the massive coverage it drew during training camp, including a memorable shirtless run through the rain, rather than football.

                The whole experiment really failed in December when Ryan decided to make a change at quarterback, but passed over Tebow for McElroy. Tebow told Ryan he did not want...
                -04-29-2013, 08:17 AM
              • The Optimistic Lamb
                Tim Tebow
                by The Optimistic Lamb
                After today, I think its a lot harder to doubt Tebow. He's obviously made a lot of progress in his throwing motion, due in part to his will to succeed. But its not like I'm surprised. He's Tim Tebow.

                :ram:
                1st round
                5.41%
                4
                2nd round
                32.43%
                24
                3rd round
                35.14%
                26
                4th round
                16.22%
                12
                5th round
                8.11%
                6
                6th round
                0.00%
                0
                7th round/Never
                2.70%
                2
                -03-17-2010, 01:35 PM
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