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How does suh even compare with mccoy

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  • #1

    How does suh even compare with mccoy

    here suh 85 tackles 24 tfl 12 sacks 10 passes blocked 26 qb hurries 3 blocked kicks
    mccoy 34 tackles 11.5 tfl 6 sacks 2 passes blocked 7 qb hurries 0 blocked kicks
    NOW SOME PEOPLE BRING UP THAT MCCOY HAD MORE TALENT AROUND HIM........ lets compare the talent on both teams
    nebraska:Number one in the nation in scoring defense
    1 pass efficency defense 17 in total pass defense 7th in total defense 5th in rush defense
    Oklahoma is all above the 40s in thesw catagories.

    This just makes Suhs stats even better. Lets not forget they played in the same conference and agianst each other (nebraska won 10-3)

    Texas: Mccoy 3 tackles one sack, Suh 12 tackles 7 for loss 23 qb hurries, 4.5 sacks (other d tackle for crick, the other d tackle for nebraska, set the record for 5 sacks in one game agianst baylor)

    kansas st:mccoy 1 tackle no sacks
    suh 9 tackles one sack 4 qb hurries 2 passes defended 3 tackles for loss.

    Now lets get back to this guy crick, he had way better stats than mccoy too and he is only a sophmore:76 tackles 9.5 sacks 18 tfls, 4 blocked passes 16 qb hurries
    now im going to take a bold step here: Its not the scheme mccoy plays,its just he isnt as good as SUH OR CRICK.
    ( NOTE: I DIDNT SEE MCCOY AT ANY OF THE AWARDS CEROMONY)
    Back to Suh. Suh had the way better combine and had a 35.5 inch veritcal, highest for a guy over 300 pounds since 2000, he had 9 more reps on the bench, practically tied with mccoy in the forty (when will a d tackle run 40 yars straight? (oh wait suh made 2 tackles this year like that......) and suh also outpreformed mccoy in the 3 cone drill and the shuffle. Add this up and you get one hell of a defensive tackle who intercepts passes, blocks kicks sacks the quarterback, racks up the tackles, pressures the qb, disrupts screens, can make tackles 10-20 yards down field, and tackle the ball carrier for a loss.

    how could you not want suh?


    YouTube - Ndamukong Suh







    (ps i do not care about spelling on the internet, as long as people get the general idea...)
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

    Good thing stats tell the whole story. There is no way anybody can argue with those numbers.

    How could anybody ever say Peyton Manning is better than Matt Schaub? Schaub had more yards and less interceptions than Manning! Its all in the numbers! Stats tell you everything you ever needed to know!

    /sarcasm mode turned off

    In reality, I like Suh better than McCoy too, but they are both very obviously elite players and if the coaching staff decides McCoy is the pick, they are judging that on game film, not a stat sheet.

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    • #3
      Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

      Originally posted by cfh128 View Post
      Good thing stats tell the whole story. There is no way anybody can argue with those numbers.

      How could anybody ever say Peyton Manning is better than Matt Schaub? Schaub had more yards and less interceptions than Manning! Its all in the numbers! Stats tell you everything you ever needed to know!

      /sarcasm mode turned off

      In reality, I like Suh better than McCoy too, but they are both very obviously elite players and if the coaching staff decides McCoy is the pick, they are judging that on game film, not a stat sheet.
      Manning didn't play the last couple of games of the season. If he did he would've had more yards than Shaub and Peyton was better than Shaub in other statistical categories. The stats are not at all clear in that situation.

      With McCoy and Suh the stats show that Suh is clearly the more dominant player. Suh is much better than McCoy in every statistical category relevant to D-linemen and proved at the combine that he is also a better athlete. People look at the stats because in most cases they reflect the skill of the player.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

        Originally posted by jmk321 View Post
        Manning didn't play the last couple of games of the season. If he did he would've had more yards than Shaub and Peyton was better than Shaub in other statistical categories. The stats are not at all clear in that situation.

        With McCoy and Suh the stats show that Suh is clearly the more dominant player. Suh is much better than McCoy in every statistical category relevant to D-linemen and proved at the combine that he is also a better athlete. People look at the stats because in most cases they reflect the skill of the player.
        better athlete yes, but "football athlete" who knows....jury is still out....people change when the microscopes on them...(same goes for 40-speed and football speed- look at jerry rice...)

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        • #5
          Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

          With you all the way man - I am on the QB side of the fence, but if we decide on a DT Suh is LEAPS and BOUNDS ahead of McCoy.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

            Originally posted by cfh128 View Post
            Good thing stats tell the whole story. There is no way anybody can argue with those numbers.

            How could anybody ever say Peyton Manning is better than Matt Schaub? Schaub had more yards and less interceptions than Manning! Its all in the numbers! Stats tell you everything you ever needed to know!

            /sarcasm mode turned off

            In reality, I like Suh better than McCoy too, but they are both very obviously elite players and if the coaching staff decides McCoy is the pick, they are judging that on game film, not a stat sheet.
            on game film its not even close i will post the links for you to watch suh

            YouTube - DT Ndamukong Suh Highlights 2009 Nebraska Part 1
            YouTube - DT Ndamukong Suh Highlights 2009 Nebraska Part 2
            YouTube - DT Ndamukong Suh Highlights/Lowlights 2009 Nebraska Part 3

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

              To me in every way i can think of Suh is just..better. How can you argue?

              Suh is the vast majority leader in stats, beat mccoy's tail at the combine, and clearly dominated just about every game he played in, where mccoy would disappear sometimes.

              Mccoy showed a quicker burst off the line this year, and that's the only reasoning I've seen that puts Mccoy ahead of Suh on some boards.

              I attribute that to the systems. Suh has stated that the scheme Suh played in required him to stand up blockers and push the pocket back rather then simply shoot the gap.

              Noone also states how many times Mccoy shot a gap and subsequently got blew out fo the play because he chose wrong.

              Judging by Suh's vertical leap and broad jump it's obvious the guy has explosion. If he is required to shoot the gap does anyone doubt that his explosion would equal if not surpass mccoy's?

              @ludairv- Is the jury REALLY out that Suh is a better football athlete? What more does he have to do to show he knows how to play football??

              He lead his team in tackles in a position that is tough to rack up tackles on a defense full of talent. He showed intelligence, ball awareness, athleticism, and a nasty demeanor to cause pain. What do you guys want from him?

              Suh just seems better and I don't understand the reasoning behind the Mccoy is better sentiment....

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              • #8
                Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

                suh also got a higher score on the wonderitic test

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

                  Originally posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
                  To me in every way i can think of Suh is just..better. How can you argue?

                  Suh is the vast majority leader in stats, beat mccoy's tail at the combine, and clearly dominated just about every game he played in, where mccoy would disappear sometimes.

                  Mccoy showed a quicker burst off the line this year, and that's the only reasoning I've seen that puts Mccoy ahead of Suh on some boards.

                  I attribute that to the systems. Suh has stated that the scheme Suh played in required him to stand up blockers and push the pocket back rather then simply shoot the gap.

                  Noone also states how many times Mccoy shot a gap and subsequently got blew out fo the play because he chose wrong.

                  Judging by Suh's vertical leap and broad jump it's obvious the guy has explosion. If he is required to shoot the gap does anyone doubt that his explosion would equal if not surpass mccoy's?

                  @ludairv- Is the jury REALLY out that Suh is a better football athlete? What more does he have to do to show he knows how to play football??

                  He lead his team in tackles in a position that is tough to rack up tackles on a defense full of talent. He showed intelligence, ball awareness, athleticism, and a nasty demeanor to cause pain. What do you guys want from him?

                  Suh just seems better and I don't understand the reasoning behind the Mccoy is better sentiment....
                  i agree with this completely and lets not forget they played in the same conference (aka same opponents) and suh still leads the margin by a ton.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

                    24 reps is laughable for a DT.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

                      Originally posted by dave626 View Post
                      24 reps is laughable for a DT.
                      mccoy actually got 23 reps, now that is sad.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

                        172 lb Dexter McCluster put up 20 reps.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

                          I don't even think Mccoy is in the debate with Suh and Bradford.. I'm pretty sure if we pick anyone at #1 it will be either Suh or Bradford.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

                            Originally posted by thickandthin View Post
                            I don't even think Mccoy is in the debate with Suh and Bradford.. I'm pretty sure if we pick anyone at #1 it will be either Suh or Bradford.
                            ask that faggot maydick or what ever his name is or that mcsuck guy at espn.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: How does suh even compare with mccoy

                              anyone else have something to say?

                              Comment

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                              • AvengerRam_old
                                McCoy continues to annoy
                                by AvengerRam_old
                                The one comment (which I've read from a handful of fans and a couple of analysts) that I just don't get is the suggestion that Gerald McCoy should be taken before Ndamukong Suh.

                                Based on what?

                                Go and look up their stats (I've posted them before and I don't have the time of patience to pull them again). Its not even close. Suh's production is essentially double that of McCoy.

                                And what's the context of these stats? Two guys who play in the same conference against the same competition level. Two guys who are close to the same size.

                                I've heard some try to argue that McCoy has better technique. I don't see it. From what I've seen, Suh has great technique for a college player. But, even if McCoy had better technique, SUH DOUBLED HIS PRODUCTION! Imagine how Suh could produce if his technique develops further.

                                If the Rams ultimately decide that they need to take a QB with the first pick, I'll be disappointed, but at least I'd understand the thinking. After all, if that pick were to turn into a franchise QB, nobody would argue with it in the long run. Similarly, if the Rams trade down, I'll have misgivings, but I'd understand the logic.

                                I'll tell you this, though. If the Rams stay a pick No. 1 and take McCoy over Suh, you will hear a loud sound coming from the Southeast United States.

                                It will be me screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!"
                                -01-26-2010, 06:25 AM
                              • dave626
                                Suh and Mccoy
                                by dave626
                                Are there any clan members who would rather take Mccoy over Suh. Im in the Bradford camp myself, but IF we swing a deal for a vet QB (a whole other thread) and are sitting there with the number one pick and the 2 DTs are there which would you take, or which have you read we are most interested in.

                                I read that Spags had dinner with Mccoy and his family (not sure where I read that), and Spags really likes him.

                                I havent read any such situation with Suh. I have read that Suh is a VERY serious guy and is dedicated to becoming a great football player, not that Mccoy isnt, just that Suh is noticeably so.

                                The only argument Ive heard that raises Mccoy over Suh is the scheme they played in, Mccoy was attacking the gap, where as Suh was a read and react guy. Is that to say Suh cant attack the gap or Mccoy cant beat the double team IDK.

                                I was hoping maybe one of you guys who are more informed than I, could shed some light on this for me. At seasons end it seemed that Suh was a lock at #1 but now, without any more games being played, compareable numbers at the combine, except of course the bench, Mccoy has somehow moved into the conversation.

                                To me, that 23 reps that Mccoy put up truely shows his lack of weight room dedication, and is a GLARING weakness. Suh AS FAR AS I KNOW has no GLARING weakness.(maybe one of you guys help me out here)

                                Id like to know what you guys think about it and as you can tell Im a Suh guy when talking about DTs.

                                GO RAMS!!!
                                -03-28-2010, 02:16 PM
                              • rob6465
                                Monster D-tackles Suh, McCoy could emerge as NFL No. 1 pick
                                by rob6465
                                No links!!!
                                -03-11-2010, 06:34 AM
                              • Nick
                                DTs Suh, McCoy have ability to go No. 1 in draft
                                by Nick
                                DTs Suh, McCoy have ability to go No. 1 in draftFeb. 27, 2010
                                By Chad Reuter
                                NFLDraftScout.com
                                Tell Chad your opinion!

                                INDIANAPOLIS -- It's rare that a pair of defensive tackles get as much attention at the combine as the elite quarterbacks. Then again, Nebraska's Ndamukong Suh and Oklahoma's Gerald McCoy are rare talents.

                                Suh and McCoy are likely rated higher on many teams' boards than quarterbacks Sam Bradford (Oklahoma) and Jimmy Clausen (Notre Dame), a rarity in today's offense-happy NFL.

                                The St. Louis Rams and Detroit Lions have the top two picks, and could use McCoy and Suh on their porous defenses. But two questions remain:

                                Who is better? And is either worth taking in the top two selections?

                                Neither question is easily answered. Suh said on Saturday that he would be happy for his "good friend" McCoy if he went No. 1. But he added that he'd "definitely be disappointed with myself not getting it. I'm a competitor. I want to be No. 1. So that's what I'm going to strive for."

                                That attitude is just one of the reason teams like his game. But despite Suh finishing fourth in the Heisman voting (85 tackles, 24 for loss, 12 sacks) while riding the wave of a dominant performance against Texas in the Big 12 Championship Game, McCoy will be ranked higher on some boards because of his ability to explode into the backfield as a three-technique. His quick first step especially works well in a one-gap system where he is full-go from the snap.

                                Because he redshirted, McCoy could have entered the draft after the 2008 season and been a first-round pick. But there was little doubt after an All-American junior year (15.5 tackles for loss, six sacks) that he would take his game to the NFL. After McCoy made his decision to leave school early, Sooners head coach Bob Stoops said: "I've never been associated with a young man who was any more impressive than Gerald." That's pretty high praise, even coming from a head coach.

                                Suh can play any position on the line but is not quite as explosive off the snap. His strength and motor allow him to be extremely effective pressuring the passer (he had 26 quarterback hurries along with those 12 sacks), although there is some concern that NFL interior linemen won't give in as easily as college linemen did to his bull rush. Still, his exceptional stamina, manhandling of opponents using strong, quick hands that added to his length and closing speed make him a likely star in the NFL.

                                Suh said Oklahoma's scheme allowed McCoy to display his explosiveness more than Bo Pelini's scheme at Nebraska. The hesitation off the snap could very well be indicative of his need to handle multiple responsibilities in the Huskers defense.

                                "We played two different defenses, in my opinion. His defense was more or less, he had the freedom to...
                                -02-28-2010, 01:10 PM
                              • 39thebeast
                                Spread and the transistion to the NFL
                                by 39thebeast
                                When you talk about the spread, most people talk about how it hurts a QBs transition to a pro system. That is true, but IMO it hurts defensive lineman just as much. Look at teams like Missouri and Texas Tech. who play with huge splits (space between lineman). Coming to the NFL you are most definately not going to see that. Both McCoy and Suh have taken advantage of this since almost all Big 12 teams. More concerning to me with McCoy because he did not dominate these guys as much as Suh did. In College especially against spread teams they are looking at smaller quicker guys, in the NFL they are looking at bigger stronger guys who are just as quick as those smaller guys. I guess this is a case against McCoy and for Suh. Even though the spread makes it tough to evaluate both the way Suh utterly dominated lower competition and ideal circumstances where McCoy was just Ok is disappointing. Suh literally quadrupled McCoys production against Texas. IMO if your going to play against those teams you better dominate
                                -02-17-2010, 09:44 PM
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