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  • My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

    These thoughts will not change over the next month.......assuming neither of them molests a goat or some such thing. Here's a few things that I think will happen over the next decade (barring injury or end-of-the-world type stuff):

    Bradford will be a very good QB.

    Suh will be an elite DT.

    With Suh, the Rams defense will show serious improvement, including better ypa in the rush D, and more pressure on the QB. The offense won't change all that much.

    With Bradford, the Rams offense will show some improvement, but will require improvements to the receiving corp to make any large steps forward. The defense won't change much at all.




    I understand the QB choice. I do, I get it. And Bradford will be a really solid QB. He'll show it on his pro day; he'll make crisp accurate passes, he'll dazzle in interviews, he will demonstrate to franchises that he is an intelligent, articulate young man with all the intangibles you'd ever want.

    But he won't be the player that Suh will be.

    Bradford will walk into Rams Park, and on the practice field, he will make everyone believe that scientists cloned Phillip Rivers and Kurt Warner, combined the DNA, and out popped Sammy.

    But he won't raise the offense the way that Suh will raise the defense.

    With Bradford, his success will rely on other pieces. Will the receivers be able to separate so that his amazing accuracy can be demonstrated? Will the line protect him the way that his Oklahoma line (manned by 5 NFL lineman in 2008) protected him?

    With Suh, his success will not be as dependent on those around him. Rather the opposite. The DEs will see more lanes as Suh occupies the interior. Same for blitzers. The DBs will look better as pockets collapse and QBs have to rush passes.

    Bradford will be good.......but every draft has a "Bradford".
    Suh will be great........and there may be one "Suh" a decade. (Not my words, by the way.)

    So do we draft a Bradford, then wait a decade for the next Suh?
    Or do we draft Suh, and pick up next year's Bradford?



    Look, I'm not saying Bradford isn't worth the #1 pick......if Suh weren't in it. Take Suh out of the draft, and Bradford is the #1 pick (though McCoy fans would have their valid points as well). So, no, I'm not going to complain about drafting Bradford at #1. In any ordinary year, he is a #1 pick.

    I'm just saying that with Suh available, this isn't an "ordinary" year.

    I'm sure Bradford will do fine. But I would be lying if I said his long-term health isn't a concern. The Rams have protected their QB with a sack % of 7.5% to 8.0% over the past few years. But he's coming from an offense that protected him with a sack % of 2.7%. And even then (as Nick has pointed out), he didn't finish a season in one piece.
    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

  • #2
    Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

    2009 Rams Season in Review:

    Total Offense Ranking: 29th.
    Passing Offense Ranking: 28th.

    10.9 Points per game.

    2,686 passing yds, 12 TDs, 21 INTs from a carousel of has-been's and will-never-be's.

    So explain to me how a DT is supposed to fix this problem.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

      I'm still undecided on this issue, but I can tell you two things:

      1. Whichever player I ultimately favor, I'll be far from certain that I've chosen correctly; and

      2. I will not fault anyone for favoring the one I don't pick.

      To me, its a classic risk/reward scenario. Suh is much lower risk. Bradford (merely because he is a QB) has a higher potential reward.

      If I felt a little more strongly about the prospect of drafting Colt McCoy, Dan LeFevour or Tony Pike, I think I'd remain firmly in the Suh camp. As it stands right now, I don't quite have that level of confidence in the tier 2 group, though that could change (particularly if the scouts come from McCoy's workout pleasantly surprised with his arm strength).

      If I were to describe where my brain is in terms of percentages right now, I'd say its Suh: 50.25%; Bradford 49.75%. Its literally that close.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

        Originally posted by smizzhfx View Post
        2009 Rams Season in Review:

        Total Offense Ranking: 29th.
        Passing Offense Ranking: 28th.

        10.9 Points per game.

        2,686 passing yds, 12 TDs, 21 INTs from a carousel of has-been's and will-never-be's.

        So explain to me how a DT is supposed to fix this problem.
        By itself, it won't .. But the acquisition of another young OT, at least one more good receiver and a solid number two running back will help alot. Hopefully we'll find a way to give our starting Qb better protection than last year's team did. FA and the draft ought to least give us some new blood at those positions.

        A great DT may not help a Qb score points, but he can influence the issue of allowing opposing teams to run up the score early, thereby taking away our running game, and forcing us to throw every down.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

          I'd agree with Av except my percentages are about 60% Bradford and 40% Suh.

          It's not right but the biggest factors for me going with Bradford are:

          a. We've gone DT 4 times in recent past and 3 flopped. The fourth was the biggest gamble, he panned out and the team let him walk. Of the 3 that were highly drafted, all were considered can't miss picks.

          b. I can imagine what that dome is going to look like if Bulger is our starting QB yet again come September. "Half Empty" is what it's going to look like. The Rams need to sell tickets, pure and simple. Interior linemen don't sell season tickets. If the Rams don't sell tickets, they won't be pushing the salary total next offseason. This choice isn't made in a vacuum. When the NFL finally gets a CBA back in place, free agents will become available and I want the team to be aggressive, not questioning whether they can afford it.

          I know it's easy to claim Suh is a sure thing but no draft pick is a sure thing. To say he WILL be an elite player is an over statement. He CAN be an elite player. He can also be Dan Wilkinson. Glenn Dorsey was a can't miss DT. Johnathan Sullivan was can't miss. Ryan Sims? Gerald Warren? Defensive Tackles have about as much record of can't miss turning into duds as QBs. It seems to me the best chance of success if finding a DT who can play NT. That's where Gerald McCoy comes into the equation. Suh has bigger upside but McCoy probably has the lesser risk.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

            Originally posted by smizzhfx View Post
            2009 Rams Season in Review:

            Total Offense Ranking: 29th.
            Passing Offense Ranking: 28th.

            10.9 Points per game.

            2,686 passing yds, 12 TDs, 21 INTs from a carousel of has-been's and will-never-be's.

            So explain to me how a DT is supposed to fix this problem.
            Turnovers, field positions...... Confidence in the Defense so the O can be more aggressive with play calling. Also, a full camp with young wide recievers and working in the 2nd year of the O system.


            I am starting to warm up to the thoughts of drafting Bradford but the INJURY is a major concern for me.

            M. Faulk made a statement that seem very relevent. Not an exact quote but meat of it is that QB's with shoulder injuries never fully recover.

            Thought about it and it makes alot of sense to me for example I can think of several QB's with shoulder injuries who's performance declined and seem to have ongoing struggles with the shoulder.

            Example:

            Tim Couch
            Mark Bulger
            Chad Pennington
            Ryan Leaf
            Joey Harrington
            Alex Smith
            Mark Rypien
            Mark Brunell


            those who did not decline

            Brees
            Straford


            If the Rams decide to go with Bradford I hope they're smart about the the guarantee money?

            Go Rams

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

              Hub,

              A few comments on your thread:

              1.) I agree with your assessment on the o-line. That is why in my board I have the Rams taking either Vlad Ducasse or Bruce Campbell with the 33rd pick or if that is not feasible, Jared Vorhees or Kyle Calloway at the top of the 3rd round. If we are gonna take a QB overall we must protect him better.

              2. You mentioned that "every draft has a Bradford". Well, maybe so, but they are almost always top 5 picks and therefore very difficult to procure.

              3.) Suh may be an elite DT but most NFL teams don't look at the defensive tackle position as an essential or "franchise" position. Usually these positions on the defensive side are a pass rushing DE and a shut down corner. Sure it would be nice to have a guy like Suh but we'll never consistently win unless we address the "franchise" positions like QB.

              Having said all of this I do thank for your cogent thoughts.

              WHAT SAY YE?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

                This is the sort of thread I've been looking for on the subject. Your points are well reinforced, instead of stated and left alone. I'd have to side with Av for the most part on this one though, I see reasons for both.
                "I've been saving the Universe for over a thousand years. I figure it owes me just this once."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

                  Originally posted by Ramarkable
                  2. You mentioned that "every draft has a Bradford". Well, maybe so, but they are almost always top 5 picks and therefore very difficult to procure.
                  And top 5 is exactly where I see us drafting next year regardless of whom is selected this year.

                  3.) Suh may be an elite DT but most NFL teams don't look at the defensive tackle position as an essential or "franchise" position. Usually these positions on the defensive side are a pass rushing DE and a shut down corner. Sure it would be nice to have a guy like Suh but we'll never consistently win unless we address the "franchise" positions like QB.
                  And with a consistent interior pass rush threat, the DEs and CBs start looking better and better.
                  Having said all of this I do thank for your cogent thoughts.
                  And thank you for yours.
                  The more things change, the more they stay the same.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

                    Top five? That's depressing...
                    "I've been saving the Universe for over a thousand years. I figure it owes me just this once."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

                      Originally posted by Rebelyell
                      a. We've gone DT 4 times in recent past and 3 flopped. The fourth was the biggest gamble, he panned out and the team let him walk. Of the 3 that were highly drafted, all were considered can't miss picks.
                      That's where I'd disagree, Rebel. I assume you're referring to Lewis, Pickett, Kennedy, and Carriker. Three selections in the mid-1st, one in the late 1st, and I would say with certainty that NONE of them had the scout grade that Suh has.
                      Originally posted by Rebelyell
                      b. I can imagine what that dome is going to look like if Bulger is our starting QB yet again come September. "Half Empty" is what it's going to look like. The Rams need to sell tickets, pure and simple. Interior linemen don't sell season tickets. If the Rams don't sell tickets, they won't be pushing the salary total next offseason. This choice isn't made in a vacuum. When the NFL finally gets a CBA back in place, free agents will become available and I want the team to be aggressive, not questioning whether they can afford it.
                      Nor does QBs sell season tickets. Wins......that's what sell season tickets. And IMO, Suh will do more to generate wins than will Bradford.
                      I know it's easy to claim Suh is a sure thing but no draft pick is a sure thing. To say he WILL be an elite player is an over statement.
                      I assumed that "In my opinion" was always implied. Go back and insert "IMO" before all of my statements when you re-read them.
                      Last edited by HUbison; -03-12-2010, 12:56 PM.
                      The more things change, the more they stay the same.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

                        Originally posted by BrokenWing View Post
                        Top five? That's depressing...
                        Yes, it is. Hopefully, I'm wrong.
                        The more things change, the more they stay the same.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

                          I sure hope so. I at least want four or five wins...Which granted is still top 5 but this 1-15 business isn't cool.
                          "I've been saving the Universe for over a thousand years. I figure it owes me just this once."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

                            Originally posted by AV
                            1. Whichever player I ultimately favor, I'll be far from certain that I've chosen correctly; and

                            2. I will not fault anyone for favoring the one I don't pick.
                            And ultimately, that's where I am. If the Front Office believes Bradford is the better prospect for this team, then so be it; welcome to St. Louis, Sam.

                            But right now, my scales are tipped the other way.
                            The more things change, the more they stay the same.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: My final take on Bradford vs. Suh.

                              Originally posted by HUbison View Post
                              And top 5 is exactly where I see us drafting next year regardless of whom is selected this year.
                              That would mean that the Rams would have a record of, say, 3-13 or possibly 4-12.

                              Well, then we might as well start a new thread titled "Who do you want as the new GM and HC of the Rams" as I see no way either Spags or Billy survives. Granted this is getting off topic but I do believe that Bradford would help produce a better record than that.

                              Bottomline: When there is a potential franchise QB on the board and you don't have one, you take him.


                              WHAT SAY YE?

                              Comment

                              Related Topics

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                              • HUbison
                                Bradford vs. Suh
                                by HUbison
                                Let's assume that both Bradford and Suh are ahead (and will stay ahead) of their positional counterparts, Clausen and McCoy.

                                With that assumption in place, the decision comes down to: will Bradford be the better QB, or will Suh be the better DT? And by how much, relatively speaking?

                                So I think we have to look not at where they are, but where they will be. Here's how I see it:

                                Bradford's floor is Chad Pennington; his ceiling is Kurt Warner. Most likely......Matt Schaub

                                Suh's floor is LaRoi Glover; his ceiling is John Randle. Most likely.....Warren Sapp.



                                It just seems to me, when looking at that scale of potential/probability, the choice is Suh. Not scientific at all, of course, but just what I'm seein'.
                                -03-01-2010, 08:30 AM
                              • jerseyramsfan
                                Bradford of Suh ?
                                by jerseyramsfan
                                After last season I wanted the Rams to finish near the bottom to have a shot at Sam Bradford. Well now a year later my wish for a franchise QB is a reality. But all I've been hearing about is how Suh is the best DT to come out in decades. Man now I'm really torn. Lets get some discussion going between the two players...
                                -01-03-2010, 03:17 PM
                              • ramhard
                                Bradford vs. Suh
                                by ramhard
                                I think this season is a great example of how drafting is as much about fit as it is about talent. There was a heavy debate on Suh vs. Bradford. Both are having great years so far. Suh has been downright amazing, and from a stat perspective, you could even argue that Suh is having a better rookie year at DT (he is a leader in many DT stats - e.g. 8th in league in sacks, leading all DT's in sacks, 1 interception and 1 fumble recovery for a TD as a DT), than Bradford is having at QB. Yet, the choice of Bradford was best for the Rams and Suh will be a beast for the Lions for years to come.
                                -11-01-2010, 11:01 AM
                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Bradford vs. SUH
                                by Guest
                                Ok hypothetically let's say we take Bradford and another team takes Suh.. training camp rolls around and the season starts and the team that drafted SUH comes to town and Bradford has been having a Warner like first couple of weeks throwing the ball and managing the team like the beginning of the 1999 season... Second play of the second Quarter, play action pass Bradford fakes to Jackson and SUH bull rushes, throws Grecco to the side and has a clear shot at Bradford. For the first split second Bradford doesn't see him while making his progression and BAM!! SUH lays a "house of spears" hit on Bradford whish sends him flying into the turf landing akward on the turf rolling around in pain grabbing his shoulder... What would be the first thing through your head ..........?
                                Bad luck good pick
                                22.50%
                                9
                                We should of taken SUH
                                30.00%
                                12
                                RAMS bad luck strikes again
                                25.00%
                                10
                                I'm jumping in the river
                                17.50%
                                7
                                I'm gonna stop watching football Forever!!
                                5.00%
                                2
                                -03-30-2010, 04:44 AM
                              • Bing69
                                I still want Suh over Bradford
                                by Bing69
                                I know ill get bashed for this but i really think Suh would be the better choice as the no.1 pick. Now that Carriker is gone, we can forget about that 'we've made 2 high defensive picks in the last 3 years,we have to draft Bradford ahhhhhh' thing. We only have Long now.

                                Lets think about our defensive line

                                Long Ryan Robbins Little? Hall

                                That line aint gonna do very well now is it. Especially if Little doesnt come back. Now if we draft Suh it will look like this

                                Long Ryan/Robbins Suh Little?Hall

                                Already looks more solid. Now what if we trade for Osi

                                Osi Ryan/Robbins Suh Long

                                That line looks like it could cause trouble.

                                If we draft Bradford, sure the offense would improve slightly, or it could be just a dire. I understand the logic of picking Bradford, give us hope, a new face for the franchise etc. but Jackson is the face of our franchise. Maybe McCoy will be a wonderful hit (if we draft him)

                                This is just how i feel, and i can say honestly if we pick Bradford tomorrow i will not be happy! But i will support the lad, and hope he brings the business. I just want us to shun the media and experts by taking Suh and continue to build a good , talented, young base which will put in a good position for years to come
                                -04-21-2010, 07:58 AM
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