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Not so fast Mr. Locker

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  • Not so fast Mr. Locker

    Locker didn't get a first-round grade from Advisory Committee
    Posted by Mike Florio on December 18, 2009 8:25 PM ET
    For those of you who admire the dedication and/or question the sanity of Washington quarterback Jake Locker for deciding not to enter the NFL draft in what could be the last year of the big-money windfalls at the top of the pecking order, the decision to stay in school isn't as honorable and/or stupid as previously believed.

    As pointed out in the Associated Press article regarding Locker's decision not to forgo his final season of college eligibility, Locker had submitted his name for consideration to the NFL Collegiate Advisory Committee, which estimates where a player might be drafted.

    Despite a proclamation by ESPN's Todd McShay that Locker would/should/could be the first overall pick, a league source tells us that Locker didn't receive a first-round grade from the Advisory Committee.

    The source concedes that Locker might have still be drafted in round one given the value of the position, but the source insists that McShay was flat wrong in his assessment of Locker.

    "That's the problem," the source opined. "McShay is clueless. Up until three weeks before the 2008 draft, he said that [Kentucky's] Andre Woodson would be a first-round pick. He went in the sixth and is out of the league."

    And the source explained that these opinions come not from the same-old rant by NFL scouts that guys like McShay and Mel Kiper have the luxury of popping off with no accountability as long as it all sounds good (the same-old rant has a significant amount of accuracy, by the way), but from concerns that guys like McShay do kids a disservice by pumping up their expectations.

    "The problem I have with people like McShay saying stupid things is parents and others who 'advise' these kids think McShay knows what he is talking about," the source said. "And they believe him before they believe the Advisory Committee. Then, when the kids go a lot lower than projected they are pissed and/or depressed. . . . This stuff happens every year and we have to deal with the broken hearts because people who don't know what they are talking about put visions of grandeur into young players' heads."

    This item isn't intended to be a shot at McShay. But if the Advisory Committee didn't give a first-round grade to the guy that McShay had at the top of his board, then something is wrong with this picture. And we're inclined to think the defect doesn't come from the Committee made up of folks who scout players for a living -- and whose ongoing careers depend not on their ability to talk smoothly about their views, but on whether enough of the players whom they believe to be good players become good players.

  • #2
    Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker

    Not a surprise, in my opinion Locker wont even be the top QB next year if Mallet decides to come out.


    • #3
      Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker

      I like Locker's skill set but if you read my post from earlier when the Locker hype came out, I always wondered how a guy who hasn't had a 3000 yard passing season, hasn't thrown for 25 touchdowns, and hasn't even thrown for 60% of his passes in a season is being considered for the Number One Overall pick. Don't get me wrong. I love Locker's skill set, namely his athleticism and speed, but you have to show you can get it done in college before you can get it done in the pros.

      I understand he's playing for Washington, which is not a top team, but at number one, he'd be going to the consensus worst team in the NFL and expected to lead that team to greatness.

      I want to see Locker throw for at least 3000 yards next season and get that completion percentage to around 63% at least while getting at least 23 touchdowns.


      • #4
        Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker

        Man it would be nice if THE HAIR and his girlfriend ( and others)were somehow held accountable, that way when they make outlandish statements you would know they had something riding on it, but until they're judged by there accuracy they are just a couple more jokers we have to sift threw to get decent information.


        • #5
          Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker

          I was always confused myself as to how he was so easily projected as such a high pick. I think with the popularity of spread offenses now, it's easy to jump all over the pro style passers, saying they're "nfl ready". He also got a lot of slack from being on a poor team. He never looked that impressive to me, personally.


          • #6
            Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker

            I don't think it matters where your drafted. I think it matters how you prepare at the next level. If you give it %110 and the front office gives you a chance. You could be a great QB.

            To become a QB you need HEART!

            How about QB Pat Haden for rams. Everybody said to short.
            Drew Brees
            Drafted by Green Bay Packers Kurt Warner not given chance then Cut.

            The people who don't care and don't give %110 QB Jamarcuss Russell. He has all the tools to be a great QB but just dosen't care.

            I was one of those fans that want the Rams to draft Locker or Mallett.


            • #7
              Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker

              In other news, I finally finished my Christmas shopping. Thank goodness!


              • #8
                Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker

                lol...indeed, this is old news. he still would have gone in the first and probably pretty high anyways.


                • #9
                  Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker

                  How is it old news that he didn't receive a first round grade? You know, since it just came out and all....


                  • #10
                    Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker

                    Rebel, I think they're pointing to the Dec. 18, 2009 stamp on the article.

                    Nonetheless, it's news to me, and I suspect to many others as well. I know that long after Dec. 18 I still heard many people claim that if Locker had declared, he'd be the slam dunk pick for the Rams.

                    Edit: Also, I know on clanram here I still frequently see the argument along the lines of 'why draft Bradford when we can wait a year and maybe grab Locker' which of course implies that Locker is quite a bit better than Bradford.


                    • #11
                      Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker


                      What grade did the draft advisory board give Bradford last year?


                      • #12
                        Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker

                        Originally posted by PeoriaRam View Post

                        What grade did the draft advisory board give Bradford last year?
                        Im also curious to know that. I'd imagine it would be higher or along the lines of what they gave Stafford.


                        • #13
                          Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker

                          Originally posted by PeoriaRam View Post

                          What grade did the draft advisory board give Bradford last year?
                          Did he request a grade?


                          • #14
                            Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker

                            Originally posted by Nick_Weasel View Post
                            Rebel, I think they're pointing to the Dec. 18, 2009 stamp on the article.
                            Sorry, didn't notice that! You are all very much correct, it is old news.


                            • #15
                              Re: Not so fast Mr. Locker

                              I tried to find that out myself, apparently the panel makes the recommendations confidentialy. I did find that they gave DE Michael Johnson a 3rd round grade though, so it seems as though they might be onto something.


                              Related Topics


                              • MauiRam
                                Former Ram scout takes pride in ‘rogue’ label ..
                                by MauiRam
                                By Michael Silver, Yahoo! Sports Apr 24, 1:04 pm EDT

                                ROSEVILLE, Calif. – The Rogue Scout sits in a small office near the front door of his suburban Sacramento home, remote control in hand. He’s staring at a TV set that’s at least a decade old, examining game tape of one of the 2011 NFL draft’s top prospects, a quarterback who’ll likely be snatched up with one of the first five selections.

                                The scout has seen this movie before, and he doesn’t like it.

                                “What does this guy do that anybody likes?” Dave Razzano asks, pressing the rewind button. “Every pass is an underneath curl route! It’s third-and-10 in the red zone – throw a [expletive] touchdown pass. But look at this: A three-yard dump-off. That’s all he does. He threw the ball just about every play, and he had 16 touchdown passes last season.

                                “This is the guy somebody’s gonna take in the top 10? Based on what? Trust me, they’re guessing.”

                                Razzano, a respected talent evaluator during a two-decade-plus career with the San Francisco *****, St. Louis Rams and Arizona Cardinals, is talking about former Missouri quarterback Blaine Gabbert, and he’s not holding back. He has always given unvarnished and sometimes unpopular opinions – Razzano believes his dismissal from the Rams following the 2005 season was triggered by a heated pre-draft argument with then-general manager Charley Armey in which he denigrated future No. 1 overall selection Alex Smith as a backup-caliber quarterback – and since being fired by the Cardinals following the 2009 draft in an apparent cost-cutting move, he’s been completely unencumbered by discretion.

                                A blogger named Danny Kelly recently referred to Razzano as a “rogue-opinion enthusiast,” and the son of the late, renowned ***** scouting director Tony Razzano embraced the label and ran with it.

                                “When I thought about it, a rogue scout is a pretty good description,” says Razzano, who’s currently blogging in his own right (for Playmaker Mobile). “It’s someone who’s away from the horde, who doesn’t have any ties, who doesn’t give a [expletive]. I like it.”

                                Two Fridays ago at his home not far from the *****’ former Sierra College training-camp site where we first met in the late-’80s, Razzano and I watched film on Gabbert and other top prospects, dredged up some of his old reports and talked about the pitfalls of an imperfect process.

                                Razzano doesn’t claim to be perfect in his assessments; for example, the same year he denigrated Smith’s stock he graded Aaron Rodgers as having “mid-round value,” and we all know how that turned out. “That’s one report I’d like to burn,” Razzano said. However, he has shared enough prescient opinions over the years to convince me that his completion percentage is far higher than most of the men in his profession, beginning with the days before the 1991 draft, when he tipped me off to a lowly regarded Iowa defensive back...
                                -04-26-2011, 04:34 PM
                              • Nick
                                McShay: The four most common draft mistakes
                                by Nick
                                The four most common draft mistakes
                                By Todd McShay
                                Scouts, Inc.
                                Friday, February 12, 2010
                                Updated: February 15, 2:11 PM ET

                                An NFL scout recently told me, "Even after all these years, we don't have a Moneyball formula for success. But we are getting closer." Until then, the NFL draft will remain about as unscientific as any sports endeavor. As long as scouts and GMs have to scramble to evaluate roughly 1,000 college football players at four different levels, every now and then a Pierre Garçon (Mount Union, sixth-round pick) is going to have more catches in one season than a Mike Williams (USC, first round) will have in a career.

                                So what's that scout talking about? Well, just because there's no secret to guaranteeing a sweet draft doesn't mean there aren't some must-follow tendencies that can help avoid disasters. As we head to the scouting combine, which starts on Feb. 24, then on to draft day, here are some mistakes the know-it-all suits shouldn't make. (But most assuredly will.)

                                1. They will ignore the big four. At the top of the draft, four crucial positions -- QB, offensive tackle, cornerback and pass- rusher -- should trump all others. It's a supply- and-demand thing. As the league's emphasis on passing puts those positions at an ever-greater premium, the elite talent pool at those spots remains basically the same. Notice wide receivers aren't included on this A-list. You can get them anytime. Two of this season's top five wideouts -- Miles Austin and Wes Welker -- weren't even drafted. On the other hand, all five of 2009's leaders in QB ratings were among the first 33 picks. Catchers depend on passers, not the other way around.

                                Look at this season's Super Bowl teams. At the big-four positions, the Saints and Colts combined to produce five Pro Bowlers. The average draft position of those guys was 44; two were first-rounders, two others early second-rounders. The teams generated nine more Pro Bowlers from the other positions. Those guys were drafted, on average, with the 80th pick, not including Colts center Jeff Saturday, who was undrafted. The Chargers (five of their past six first-rounders played one of the big-four positions) get it. The Lions (four wideouts and a linebacker in the top 10 between 2003 and 2007) don't.

                                So while All-America safety Eric Berry is tempting, the St. Louis Rams shouldn't think twice about snatching a defensive tackle, Ndamukong Suh or Gerald McCoy, at No. 1. A combo of Suh and, say, LSU safety Chad Jones (a likely second-round pick) will win more games than Berry and, say, second-round DT Dan Williams will.

                                2. They will be seduced by looks. Scouts, GMs, even esteemed members of the media get too wrapped up in 40 times and 225-pound bench press reps. In many cases -- see: Smith, Akili; Jones, Matt; Gholston, Vernon -- superhuman physical gifts make usually rational minds...
                                -02-17-2010, 03:14 PM
                              • QuinnMan
                                Interesting Article: No One Really Knows
                                by QuinnMan
                                I know I'm new here to ClanRam but from what threads I've read on this site this article I recently read matched alot of what I've seen.
                                Seems like a pretty accurate article of how every draft is with fan critique?

                                by Howard Balzer

                                Since there isn't very much to talk about in the NFL aside from the draft (except for counting the days until three judges hold a hearing here in St. Louis on June 3), the debate in these parts over what the Rams did last week is at times somewhat comical.
                                How so? Very simple. Those whose perspective is usually negative about just about anything spend their time this way:
                                *Ripping the Rams for what they didn't do in the draft;
                                *Ripping the Rams for what they did do in the draft;
                                *Selectively picking out only those analysts whose opinions match their agenda, while conveniently overlooking any that had positive things to say;
                                *Labeling anyone locally that tries to explain in rational thought what the Rams were thinking as apologists.
                                Of course, many in that crowd were the same ones that thought the Rams were idiots last year for drafting quarterback Sam Bradford instead of defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh.
                                And yet, they never learn. The goal seemingly is to be as irrational as possible, while dismissing any potentially rational arguments from the other side.
                                There is no gray area, only absolutes, as if there is no possible chance the Rams actually know what they are doing.
                                Here is what is usually missed by the hammering crowd: In the analysis I have presented since the draft, I have never given a grade, never come out and said this was a great or even good draft. The reason for that is obvious: I don't know if it is. The rippers think they know, but they don't. No one knows, certainly not now, and no one will know until at least two or three years down the road.
                                All I've done is attempt to explain why the Rams did what they did and show that it made sense, provided the players are who they think they are. Those from "the other side" can't even bring themselves to even acknowledge that possibility.
                                At the end of the day, that is the essence of the draft. The players' performance will determine its success or failure, and no day-after-the-draft grade will have any bearing on the end result.
                                Grading a draft immediately would be like a teacher giving an exam to a class, collecting the papers, and then giving grades without looking at the tests with the result based only on what the teacher thinks each student has done.
                                All anyone has to do is go back a few years and check out some draft grades and quickly see what a useless exercise it is. Yet, most everyone continues to do it.

                                Judging character
                                Rams coach Steve Spagnuolo continues to be guided by his "four pillars" approach even though some like to take pot shots any time there is the slightest slip by a player.
                                -05-05-2011, 06:41 PM
                              • RamBill
                                QB demand boosts stock of Geno Smith, others/Breer
                                by RamBill
                                2013 NFL Draft: QB demand boosts stock of Geno Smith, others

                                By Albert Breer
                                Reporter, and NFL Network
                                Published: Feb. 11, 2013 at 01:43 p.m.

                                2013 NFL Draft: QB demand boosts stock of Geno Smith, others -

                                The Kansas City Chiefs' offseason was only a day old. Owner Clark Hunt had just fired his coach, Romeo Crennel, and was still four days away from whacking his general manager, Scott Pioli.

                                And as we talked, even in a league where deception is sometimes considered as essential as breathing, the executive was clear: Amending the team's quarterback situation was going to be priority No. 1.

                                "Clearly, a position we have to be better at is quarterback," Hunt told me. "That's not a knock on the guys that were here; there were a lot of things that went into poor play at the quarterback position, other than just the individuals. But we have to be better at that position if we want to compete."

                                Since then, Hunt hired coach Andy Reid and GM John Dorsey, and those two have been armed with, among other things, the top overall selection in April's draft to start fixing what went wrong with the previous regime.

                                So the Chiefs' top need is at quarterback, and their top resource for addressing that problem is the first pick.

                                But in this situation, one plus one doesn't necessarily equal two, because the operative figure might actually be zero -- as in the number of draft-eligible quarterbacks who, at this point, appear worth taking with the No. 1 selection.

                                "The class as a whole is very average," one AFC personnel exec said. "But if you don't have one, you're looking for one -- always. Are there potential starters? Yes. But there's no clear-cut, first-day, walk-in-the-door franchise player. For all these guys, there'll have to be a maturation process. Now, some may walk into a situation where they need to start. But this class doesn't have a ready-made starter."

                                And that puts quarterback-needy teams in a sticky spot.

                                The consensus among a handful of evaluators polled over the weekend is that West Virginia's Geno Smith is the lone player widely viewed in college scouting circles as a "starter." That doesn't mean others can't or won't start; Smith is just the one looked at with some certainty in that regard.

                                On balance, most teams are likely to place a low first-round/high second-round grade on Smith, but thanks to the paucity of prospects at the position, he'll probably get pushed up the board. Because that's the way it works.

                                "Geno, if he goes in the top 10, he's not gonna be graded the same as the guys that go around him," an AFC college scouting director said. "But he's a first-round quarterback. He's gonna get a low '1' or a second-round grade. The problem, then, is you might have a guy after...
                                -02-11-2013, 09:52 PM
                              • Goldenfleece
                                Due diligence blurs line of ethical behavior
                                by Goldenfleece
                                Due diligence blurs line of ethical behavior
                                By Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports
                                Apr 23, 12:28 pm EDT

                                One year later, Tavares Gooden remembers the empty rooms, the trips where he went to meet with NFL executives, but at some point in the process, ended up sitting alone with a team’s psychologist.

                                They were the kinds of meetings where everything was on the table: his life, his relationships, how he felt about his parents, and telling questions about authority, money and women.

                                “I guess it was just to make sure you’re all there,” the former Miami Hurricanes linebacker said, recalling sessions with psychologists for the San Francisco ***** and the team that eventually drafted him, the Baltimore Ravens. “I don’t blame anybody for doing it.”

                                In the wider scope of the NFL draft process, the league’s nitpicking into a prospect’s subconscious is hardly the most Orwellian tactic employed. Indeed, as guaranteed money continues to rocket upward and personal conduct remains a primary focus by commissioner Roger Goodell, the probing nature of the NFL has seemed to intensify – if not push the boundaries of ethical behavior.

                                Earlier this year, executives of three NFL teams admitted to Yahoo! Sports that they had used fake information to gain access to the personal pages of draft prospects on social networking sites such as Facebook and MySpace. Meanwhile, the use of psychologists gained more attention after former Georgia quarterback Matthew Stafford met with the ***** and took exception to some prying questions about his parents’ divorce.

                                All of this comes only two years after one of the most eye-opening allegations in draft history. JaMarcus Russell, the 2007 No. 1 overall pick of the Oakland Raiders, claimed he was tailed for at least two weeks by a man he believed was doing work for an NFL team. Russell said his uncle had gotten a tip that the former LSU quarterback had been followed for a sustained period of time, including from a trip from Baton Rouge, La., to his hometown of Mobile, Ala., and back again. At first, Russell said he had a hard time believing it, but then the source described places Russell had been and the frequency.

                                “What the guy said sure did happen that way,” Russell said. “… I have to admit, it was a little strange, but it’s OK.”

                                But if that story is indeed true – and it has never been revealed which team might have employed that tactic – is it acceptable? Some, like former Green Bay Packers general manager Ron Wolf and Super Bowl winning coach Dick Vermeil, have a hard time believing it could get to the level of deception that is alleged to be taking place.

                                “I can’t imagine they’re [tailing draft picks],” Wolf said. “I think that’s too far. I can’t imagine a team tailing a guy.”

                                Added Vermeil, “No question...
                                -04-24-2009, 10:14 AM