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  • Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

    Trading down would be the right move for Rams

    Columnist Jeff Gordon

    STLTODAY.COM SPORTS COLUMNIST
    04/16/2010

    If the Cleveland Browns want to trade up for the first overall pick to grab Sam Bradford, Rams general manager Billy Devaney should wave ‘em on. That would be the right move for so many reasons.

    Let’s set aside the obvious Rams ownership concerns for the moment and just look at the football equation.

    Rams coach Steve Spagnuolo set out to build a program based on strong line play, shutdown defense and a power running game. The first year was a bit rough -– a 1-15 finish, with the Rams fighting just to keep the scores close -– but the original plan made sense.

    Cleveland picks seventh. The Rams could move down to that pick, collect the 38th overall pick and some combination of additional picks (the Browns have three in the third round) and players.

    Browns president Mike Holmgren tried to downplay the possibility of a major play for Bradford.

    “I don't want to pull the rug out from everybody on our first draft choice,” he told the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “He's a coveted young man. To be able to go up and change somebody's mind ahead of us, you'd have to mortgage the ranch. I don't think in the real world -- I absolutely love the player, as do a lot of people -- in the real world, we're probably going to go in a different direction.”

    Yeah, but Rams fans can always dream. Here is how this trade could help move this program forward:

    * Gambling giant money on Bradford makes little sense for a franchise attempting to rebuild with defense and a ground attack. The Rams wouldn’t ask Bradford to do too much as a rookie in this conservative scheme, but it’s also true the team could find somebody to take this damage-control assignment for a lot less.

    Like, say, the current starter-by-default, A.J. Feeley.

    * At No. 7 overall, the Rams could address needs that fit Spags’ plan. Perhaps left tackle Russell Okung would be there. He could step right in and allow Jason Smith to stay at right tackle, where his run-blocking strengths are better served.

    Or the Rams could take running back C.J. Spiller, who would join Steven Jackson as a ferocious 1-2 punch. Or maybe the Rams could take pass-rushing defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul, who could become Chris Long’s long-range bookend.

    The Rams wouldn’t get one of the two impact defensive tackles at No. 7, but the team could still address one of their myriad needs in a big way.

    * With a pile 'o picks, the Rams could remain on red alert as the draft unfolds. If quarterback Colt McCoy started dropping toward the bottom of the first round, the Rams could burn a pick to move up and snag him. McCoy seems like a good fit for this ball-control offense.

    * Surplus picks will have giant value for the Rams, who need help almost everywhere. In a deep draft, there will be value on the board from start to finish. Devaney did OK rounding up depth on the fly last season, but this franchise needs to create serious job competition for the next training camp.

    We’re all sick of hearing that the Rams don’t have the players to do this or that. GO GET SOME PLAYERS!

    Moving out of the top pick would be unpopular with many fans, since Bradford could be a rather handsome Face of the Franchise. If Bradford went to Cleveland and developed into a star for the Holmgren regime, fans would squawk about this for years.

    And Bradford really could become a star, if given the time, coaching and supporting cast he will need to develop fully. He is a bright guy and a natural leader. He has excellent physical tools.

    But how would Bradford fare for the rebuilding Rams? Could this team be as patient as the Browns could be?

    If Holmgren wants Bradford -– and is willing to pay the high price to get him -– the Rams should jump at that opportunity and never, ever look back.

    Other quarterbacks are available in this draft. Other quarterbacks will come out next year and every year after that.

    Spags did not set out to build an Air Martz-like program dependent on great quarterback play. He set out to build a team capable of muscling up on both sides of the ball. In his dream scenario, the Rams quarterback would be an efficient game manager who minimizes mistakes and capitalizes on opportunities.

    That doesn’t scream “Bradford!” His philosophy demands that the Rams trade down if the right deal is there.
    :ramlogo:

  • #2
    Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

    Originally posted by eldfan View Post
    if the right deal is there.
    In the end, isn't that the only part of this article that matters?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

      I hate theoretical arguments like Gordon's in that column. Trade the pick because we need tons of help in plenty of places. Duh!!!!! What kind of fan wouldnt agree with that statement.

      The problem is that the devil is in the details. Without a discussion regarding what constitutes enough and what some other team is willing to pay, the conversation is purely academic.

      One other thing that i dont like is the idea that we would trade the pick and them use a high pick on a running back. If you made a very short list of things the Rams DONT need its a running back in round 1 and trust me, i am the biggest spiller fan on this board (having watched him in person destroy georgia tech for four years). Sure, we need a back up to jackson. But personally, i wouldnt use a round 2 pick on a backup (see the brian leonard movie) let alone a round 1 pick because we have too many other needs.

      Now, Dwyer in round 3 would be very intriguing for me.

      ramming speed to all

      general counsel

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

        If they are willing to pay a kings ransom for the pick then I say trade it.

        I've been saying all along we dont need a superman for our QB, we just dont play that kind of football. I think McCoy, Clausen, or even Cambell would work fine for us if we were able to add more pieces with more picks.
        We are a power run offense and I would even suggest that a #2 RB (in our offense) is ALMOST as important as the QB. (however we better have a QB already going into the 3rd round)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

          Well of course if they offer something great it would be worth it, iF in fact it is something thats going to work out for the best on the Rams part..Because to me, if its not Bradford-its Suh; If its not Suh-its gotta be Bradford..

          If were going to miss out on one of those guys we better be put in a damn good position..

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

            I'd need your house for the first pick. The idea of a runningback at number 7 when we're sitting with arguably the best back in the league in a deep back draft, makes no sense in any form of debate..

            If Bradford looks to be the real deal and checks out on all levels then you don't trade down for a "couple" of extra picks.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

              Originally posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
              I'd need your house for the first pick. The idea of a runningback at number 7 when we're sitting with arguably the best back in the league in a deep back draft, makes no sense in any form of debate..

              If Bradford looks to be the real deal and checks out on all levels then you don't trade down for a "couple" of extra picks.

              Yes, and not only that, wouldnt it make sense that if other teams are SOOO interested in Bradford , then you would further realize just how much of a star he is going to be and you would be even MORE inclined to draft him?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

                I really don't like Cleveland's pick. It leaves us on the hook for a contract that would likely be in the mid $50 millions, for a guy who likely isn't worth nearly that much. C.J. Spiller would be virtually indefensible in light of Steven Jackson's presence and our lengthy list of pressing needs elsewhere, and I find it very difficult to justify paying an unproven Eric Berry more than what I assume we are balking at paying Atogwe.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

                  Our offense isn't written in stone. Who says if we get Bradford we won't incorporate more pass plays into our scheme?

                  Something to think about.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

                    I am on record on many threads stating that Bradford should not be the pick at one. If he were so worthy locked in, why are we still working him out 6 days before the draft?. Maybe this is common, but it draws question to the certainty of taking him with the 1st overall pic, trading down should be done in a heartbeat.
                    And to note, as reported, Bowie (I mean Bradford) being reluctant to sign before being drafted is the foundation of a disaster waiting to happen. The last thing you want from your "franchise" is missing OTAs and potentially some training camp trying to get Peyton Manning money without throwing a pass. This was reported after the workout he had with Shurmur today- that Sam was quoted as saying " they had me taking the snap from center and doing things I have never done before". Is this the guy you want missing ANY time trying to capture the last big rookie payday. Without discussing how spread offense qbs in college translate to success in the NFL, as Gruden stated " you have the worst pocket presence I've seen. You just don't slide well". And this is our guy???
                    6 wins in three years. ( that hurt to type) We BETTER get it right and with more options, we have a better chance of doing just that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

                      Originally posted by ram1906 View Post
                      as Gruden stated " you have the worst pocket presence I've seen. You just don't slide well". And this is our guy???
                      That is a pretty poor misquote, Gruden does not say anything about his pocket presence. He said "You are the worst sliding down quarterback I've ever seen" not the worst pocket presence, and there is a huge difference. I don't care how much you hate Bradford, don't make up quotes about him.

                      Also, the workout is due diligence. A team would be stupid not to do it, no matter how convinced they are. Any team would be dumb to take Suh without working him out as well. It's what you do to make sure you know what you are getting. Players look different in person than on tape, and you want to see them in person.

                      And oh no! Not things he's never done! No successful NFL player was asked to do things in the NFL they didn't do in college. I suppose Shurmur telling Bradford "Perfect!" after some his throws means he really did poorly too, huh?

                      Stop with the blind hatred and lame David Bowie comparison, please. It is such an unrelated comparison that it makes no sense.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

                        I think I was too wound up from a stressful day on this one, so I am deleting it.
                        Last edited by berg8309; -04-16-2010, 05:17 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

                          Originally posted by berg8309 View Post
                          That is a pretty poor misquote, Gruden does not say anything about his pocket presence. He said "You are the worst sliding down quarterback I've ever seen" not the worst pocket presence, and there is a huge difference. I don't care how much you hate Bradford, don't make up quotes about him.
                          Agreed, initially while watching the QB camp, I too thought he meant sliding in the pocket and was rightfully worried, but upon further review, he was talking about Sam's inability to slide to avoid taking a hit down field, kinda like Mark Sanchez. Now this can be worked on, and if you were watching the program Gruden was clearly trying to find and elaborate on the negatives of each player's game. If all he could find was that Sam was a bad slider, than hooray. Not sliding just shows me the kid wants to gain every yard he possibly can to help his team win.

                          Oh look what I did, trying to derail the thread here. That's what happens when you criticize King Sam.

                          BACK ON TRACK: If you listen to Holmgrem's follow up comments, he clearly stated it was not likely in the real world to mortgage the farm. Lets think about it for a second, why would the Browns want to get rid of all their picks, since they too are a rebuilding team? If Sam is really worth all of those picks to them, well that should just confirm to us that Sam is the right choice at number 1.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

                            Originally posted by C-Mob 71 View Post

                            BACK ON TRACK: If you listen to Holmgrem's follow up comments, he clearly stated it was not likely in the real world to mortgage the farm. Lets think about it for a second, why would the Browns want to get rid of all their picks, since they too are a rebuilding team? If Sam is really worth all of those picks to them, well that should just confirm to us that Sam is the right choice at number 1.
                            Agreed on this. Most likely a Browns trade would involve either the 1st, 2nd, and all their 3rds, or the 1st, 2nd, and next year's 1st. All of which would be tremendous for the Rams, but at the same time horrible for Browns. Holmgren even pointed out the poor Ricky Williams move as a reason that is difficult to do. I seriously doubt Cleveland is willing to give up that much of their future for any player.

                            Also, as maybe someone pointed out earlier, if all these teams are trying to trade up for Bradford, then doesn't that tell you maybe Bradford really does have something special?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Trading down would be the right move for Rams Columnist Jeff Gordon

                              Uhh! Where is TakeSuh when you need him!?!

                              Mike Holmgren sounded rather clear to me about all this business with the Rams being very unlikely. I know that at this point there are smoke screens, silent statements, funny faces, no-news reports, espionage dramas, etc.x3. But I don't believe there is anything beyond a faint or remote possibility we go trading down.

                              Comment

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                              • Nick
                                Advice to Rams: If not 100% on Bradford, trade
                                by Nick
                                Advice to Rams: If not 100% on Bradford, trade
                                By Rob Rang
                                NFL Draft Scout
                                Posted on: April 20, 2010 8:52 am

                                As I reported a week ago and Cleveland Browns' general manager Tom Heckert publicly confirmed two days later, the St. Louis Rams are having internal discussions about trading out of the No. 1 pick.

                                With the several potential suitors (Cleveland, Washington, Seattle, Denver), it is possible that the Rams get the 3,000 "points" as required in the draft pick trade chart every team and media member refers to in these situations.

                                Far be it from me to offer the Rams, and specifically general manager Billy Devaney, advice on the situation, but I'm going to anyway:



                                Trading out of the No. 1 pick for less than its perceived value will likely generate some negative reaction from other teams and the media.

                                The reality is, the Rams, winners of only 6/48 games over the past three regular seasons have holes throughout their roster. The 2010 draft is as deep and talented as any we've seen in over a decade. The money saved on not utilizing the first overall pick would cover the extra players.

                                And for all of the talk about how difficult it is to trade out of the top pick, the last two teams that did so, received more than fair value for their courage -- though they weren't necessarily viewed as the consensus "winners" when making the deal on draft day.

                                The San Diego Chargers did it the unconventional way in 2004, selecting Eli Manning with the first pick and then shipping he to the Giants for the 4th overall selection, Philip Rivers, and three picks that the Chargers ultimately turned into Shawne Merriman and Nate Kaeding and veteran offensive tackle Roman Oben.

                                San Diego was involved in the last trade involving the No. 1 pick, as well, trading out of the top spot in 2001 to Atlanta. The Falcons got Michael Vick and the Chargers got the fifth pick, which they used on LaDainian Tomlison, as well as Atlanta's 3rd round pick in 2001 (Chargers selected CB Tay Cody), second round pick in 2002 (WR Reche Caldwell) and veteran receiver/returner Tim Dwight. Having not filled their quarterback need in the first round, the Chargers used their first pick of the second round on some guy named Brees.

                                There will be those that argue the Rams should simply ignore Bradford and use the top pick on their highest rated player, almost surely Ndamukong Suh or Gerald McCoy.

                                Unfortunately for St. Louis, having spent high first round selections on the defensive line in 2007 (Adam Carriker) and 2008 (Chris Long) likely precludes the team from doing so.

                                My admittedly two-cent advice? Capitalize on the best deal you can get and trade out. Let someone else gamble on Sam Bradford's shoulder. Fill other areas of concern with the first round pick(s). And take the...
                                -04-20-2010, 02:31 PM
                              • Nick
                                Don't count out Holmgren to make a push for No. 1
                                by Nick
                                Don't count out Holmgren to make a push for No. 1
                                Posted on: April 13, 2010 1:51 pm
                                NFL Draft Blog by Rob Rang

                                As much as it would seem a lock for the Rams to just keep the first pick and fulfill their need for a young quarterback with Sam Bradford, league sources tell me that the Cleveland Browns are internally discussing making a significant offer in an attempt to get the first pick and take Bradford, themselves.

                                Trading out of the No. 1 pick is rarely feasible. The financial constraints that come with having the first pick are so much that teams are usually hesitant to even consider the possibility.

                                The 2010 draft, however, is unique in several ways.

                                The talent in this class means that the Rams could truly rebuild their roster quickly if they were to get an offer of 3-4 high draft selections in exchange for the No. 1 pick.

                                Next, you have a team president in Mike Holmgren who is looking to make a splash... and with five picks among this year's first 100 (7, 38, 71, 85 and 92) he has plenty of flexibility.

                                Perhaps most importantly, while almost all talent evaluators believe that Bradford is the clear cut top QB and that there is a significant gap between he and the other QBs in this class there is talk that the Rams don't feel this way. They are thought to be quite high on a few of the other quarterbacks of this class, especially Texas' Colt McCoy.

                                Mike Holmgren and his hand-picked general manager Tom Heckert, however, are thought to be exceptionally high on Bradford.

                                The most realistic scenario remains the Rams staying put and taking Bradford.

                                They're remaining at No. 1 is not the mortal lock, I'm told, that having this pick typically is...
                                -04-13-2010, 12:50 PM
                              • AvengerRam_old
                                5 Pre-Draft Questions That Could Impact Rams' Picks
                                by AvengerRam_old
                                We're coming down to the wire, but there are still a few questions floating around out there that could impact the Rams' draft.

                                Here are 5 that I'll be keeping an eye on:

                                1. Will Ben Roethlisberger Be Charged/Suspended
                                If the Rams are seriously considering passing on Sam Bradford in favor of taking Ndamukong Suh (or Gerald McCoy) and waiting until the 33rd pick to take a QB, they'll have to project which teams in Round 1 might take a QB. If the Ben Roethlisberger is charged with a crime on Monday (when the D.A. is scheduled to announce the results of the investigation), or is supended by the league, the Steelers could be in that market.

                                2. Will Jason Campbell be traded?
                                Campbell's status could impact the Rams in two ways. First, if he is traded to a team that might otherwise take a QB in Round 1, it enhances the likelihood that Colt McCoy or even Jimmy Clausen might fall to pick #33. If he is not traded, he could be a fail-safe plan for the Rams if they pass on Bradford and Clausen and McCoy are selected before the Rams' second pick.

                                3. Will Marc Bulger be signed?
                                Like Campbell, any team that obtains Bulger is less likely to take a QB in Round 1, which enhances the Rams' chance of pulling off a DT/QB first two rounds.

                                4. How will Demaryius Thomas run on 4/18?
                                Thomas has scheduled and eleventh-hour workout to show he has the speed to merit a first round selection. He likely won't be 100%. The result could determine whether he might be available to the Rams at #33 (I think he'd be a great option there), or if he might push down other WRs to the second round.

                                5. How will negotiations with Bradford's agent go?
                                At this point, both sides have leverage. Bradford's camp knows that the Rams want Sam. The Rams know that Bradford probably drops all the way to pick #7 (Cleveland) if the Rams pass on him. It will be interesting to see if the parties reach an agreement by Bradford's April 19 visit to Rams Park. If the parties are far apart at that time, could we see another Reggie Bush/Mario Williams scenario?

                                Stay tuned, sports fans!
                                -04-10-2010, 05:46 PM
                              • Nick
                                Gordon: Maybe collapse will trigger needed upgrades
                                by Nick
                                Gordon: Maybe collapse will trigger needed upgrades
                                BY JEFF GORDON | Posted: Monday, January 3, 2011 11:05 am

                                Maybe it was for the best that the Rams missed the playoffs in such dreadful fashion.

                                Maybe their spectacularly inept offensive “performance” was just what this team needed to take the Next Step and contend for real. The Rams’ failure was vivid and thorough.

                                Consider it a cry for help, one heard by everybody unfortunate enough to witness their 16-6 loss Sunday night in Seattle.

                                Everybody from owner Stan Kroenke on down saw the obvious: This franchise needs to surround blue-chip quarterback Sam Bradford with better talent and create an offense he can win with.

                                Fans want to fire offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur. From this corner of cyberspace, we suggest the Rams give Shurmur the weapons and freedom he needs to make the most of Bradford.

                                Steve Spagnuolo is a defensive-minded head coach. And his defense was good enough to get this team into the playoffs. The offense . . . well, you saw the game. It was like watching a slow-motion car wreck.

                                Spagnuolo must put a LOT of focus on the offensive side of the ball between now and the start of next season season. He needs to step back from his first love, defense, and continue addressing this team’s acute needs on the other side of the ball.

                                Many fans want to believe this failure was simply a matter of unimaginative playcalling. That is not the case, although the Rams would presumably run Steven Jackson a lot more against the Seahawks if they got a do-over.

                                Was their pass-happy approach the result of overconfidence in Bradford? Or was it a lack of confidence in their ability to run block for Jackson?

                                Whatever the case, the approach didn’t work.

                                There were lots of plays to be made in the passing game, however, and the Rams missed many of them. Rookie wide receiver Danario Alexander, widely hailed as a franchise savior in the various forums and chat rooms, let two deep balls go through his hands.

                                Tight end Daniel Fells couldn’t make a diving catch of a downfield throw at a critical point of the game. Bradford had several passes tipped and was off-target on other throws.

                                He threw an interception by gunning the ball to double-covered Brandon Gibson while Danny Amendola had one-on-one coverage on the adjacent route.

                                A golden opportunity for a red-zone conversion dissipated after a costly holding call on Laurent Robinson. That was more of an acting job than a real hold, but that just one example of how the Rams reverted back to their bad old ways.

                                Had the Rams simply executed three or four critical plays – which were there to be made – they would have won the game and moved onto the playoffs.

                                In reality, though, the Rams aren’t THAT close on offense. They were...
                                -01-03-2011, 11:27 AM
                              • AvengerRam_old
                                Minimum Price for the No. 1 Pick
                                by AvengerRam_old
                                What is the minimum price you'd accept to trade down from #1 to #4?
                                Redskins' 1st, 2nd and 4th round picks.
                                12.16%
                                9
                                Redskins' 1st and 2nd round picks and Jason Campbell.
                                18.92%
                                14
                                Redskins' 1st and 2nd round picks, and #1 pick in 2011
                                40.54%
                                30
                                Redskins' 1st and 2nd round picks and Andre Carter
                                4.05%
                                3
                                Some other combination of picks and players (describe)
                                6.76%
                                5
                                Not interested in a trade down to the 4th pick.
                                17.57%
                                13
                                -03-31-2010, 08:15 AM
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