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***shower beers*** · -04-21-2010, 06:30 AM

Re: Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

Great mock! I think you went with a lot of picks that I was thinking long and hard about making myself, but for some reason or another just did not. In the interest of time, I'll just comment on the first round.

My first comment is with the Raiders at 8. You say that this year is the year they come to their senses, but people say that every year. The buzz right now is that they're high on Mike Iupati! I'll believe a sensical pick when I see it.

I like JPP to the Giants, which would probably mean that Osi is on his way out the door.

Kyle Wilson to Tennessee is also a very good pick. When you're signing Tye Hill in the offseason, you know CB is a pretty dire need.

It's difficult for me to see Gresham getting past Cincy and New England, both very TE needy teams.

I'm not sure that I see Joseph going that high either, but there always seems to be a team that drafts a guy nobody is picking to go in the first, so who knows.

I could go both ways with the Colt McCoy pick. One the one hand, drafting for the future makes a lot of sense for this team, especially at the quarterback position. On the other hand, this team could be one player away from getting over the hump and into the super bowl. Which way do they go?

Overall though, great mock!

**Bralidore(RAMMODE)** · -04-21-2010, 06:52 AM

Re: Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

Man im really not feeling the Thomas love. Why would we get a very unpolished project at 33? He has great size, decent hands, ok speed, poor acceleration, good blocking, abysmal route running (arguably the most important aspect in a west coast receiver). I would MUCH rather, if we go receiver, pick up Damian Williams. I'm wondering why he isn't getting any love on here. Great Hands, Elite route running, good speed, very agile YAC runner, he's the poster child for the west coast receiver at 6'1. Gresham if TE, Williams if WR, Graham/Perhaps Griffen if DE. I can't quantify picking Thomas at the top of the second. If we picked someone else at 33 and Thomas fell to 65 then certainly. I don't see how Thomas is good value at 33 at all.

***Bar-bq*** · -04-22-2010, 01:06 AM

Re: Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

Originally posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post

Man im really not feeling the Thomas love. Why would we get a very unpolished project at 33? He has great size, decent hands, ok speed, poor acceleration, good blocking, abysmal route running (arguably the most important aspect in a west coast receiver). I would MUCH rather, if we go receiver, pick up Damian Williams. I'm wondering why he isn't getting any love on here. Great Hands, Elite route running, good speed, very agile YAC runner, he's the poster child for the west coast receiver at 6'1. Gresham if TE, Williams if WR, Graham/Perhaps Griffen if DE. I can't quantify picking Thomas at the top of the second. If we picked someone else at 33 and Thomas fell to 65 then certainly. I don't see how Thomas is good value at 33 at all.

The thing with Thomas is that he projects to be a true #1 Receiver. He's been hurt and hasn't run, so I don't think that you can make a call on his speed at this point in time. His route running, I agree, needs work, but the ceiling is far higher for Thomas, in my opinion, than with Williams. Thomas and Bryant purport to be the only true #1 Receivers in this draft and in the end I think that if we're going for the high-ceiling player in Bradford over the more polished Notre Dame product, we might as well do the same with Thomas over the USC alum.

With Williams, what you see is more or less what you get: a possession receiver who would make a good #2. I personally think that Avery is destined for the slot role unless he can prove himself as a starter this year. In the slot, he'll get more coverage from LB's and Safeties putting his speed to better use. I can see the value of Williams in this situation, but IMO, we have Laurent Robinson and Brandon Gibson to audition for that role already. If we choose to take a DE/OT/TE/RB/DT in round 2, I can see Williams slipping a little, at least into trade-up range to the back of the second.

Originally posted by shower beers View Post

My first comment is with the Raiders at 8. You say that this year is the year they come to their senses, but people say that every year. The buzz right now is that they're high on Mike Iupati! I'll believe a sensical pick when I see it.

A boy can only dream, right ? ;)

I like JPP to the Giants, which would probably mean that Osi is on his way out the door.

I maintain that I think they're highly likely to trade up. The Jags could use more picks and the Giants are maybe only a player or two away from a second Superbowl run. If they can give the Jags their 1, 3 and a conditional pick next year, I think it works out for everybody.

If they can't swing a trade, JPP is still my guy.

When you're signing Tye Hill in the offseason, you know CB is a pretty dire need.

Amen. If JPP is available I think they'll think long and hard, but Wilson is a pretty good consolation prize.

It's difficult for me to see Gresham getting past Cincy and New England, both very TE needy teams.

Again, I thought about it. It came down to the fact that I place a premium on Bryant and Odrick as better pros that Gresham.

I'm not sure that I see Joseph going that high either, but there always seems to be a team that drafts a guy nobody is picking to go in the first, so who knows.

I think they need a five technique and Joseph has been climbing the boards of late. I also considered CB there, Kareem Jackson was probably my go-to-guy.

I could go both ways with the Colt McCoy pick. One the one hand, drafting for the future makes a lot of sense for this team, especially at the quarterback position. On the other hand, this team could be one player away from getting over the hump and into the super bowl. Which way do they go?

I think if Clausen falls they'll think about making a move up the boards. Personally, I think they were in such dire straits at QB before Favre came along that they'll take the gutty leader to sit and watch before he's handed the reins.

**Damned Ramz** · -04-22-2010, 01:53 AM

Re: Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

ahhh you can warrent gresham making it past cinci and new england but not baltimore? lol getting closer at least.

nice mock man!

**Damned Ramz** · -04-22-2010, 01:55 AM

Re: Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

wow no love for gronkowski eh? don't like his wonky back or whats up?

***Bar-bq*** · -04-22-2010, 02:34 AM

Re: Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

Originally posted by Damned Ramz View Post

wow no love for gronkowski eh? don't like his wonky back or whats up?

I think Gronkowski will likely be drafted higher than he's projected. I think Arizona could use a pass catching TE and Gronk is good as a reciever, but doesn't project as an 'impact' player. I really considered him for us in the third but I couldn't bring myself to draft offense in every round of the first two days. It was really close though

***Torry Holt*** · -04-22-2010, 02:47 AM

Re: Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

Originally posted by Bar-bq View Post

With Williams, what you see is more or less what you get: a possession receiver who would make a good #2. I personally think that Avery is destined for the slot role unless he can prove himself as a starter this year. In the slot, he'll get more coverage from LB's and Safeties putting his speed to better use. I can see the value of Williams in this situation, but IMO, we have Laurent Robinson and Brandon Gibson to audition for that role already.

I disagree. Williams is not a possession guy, he doesn't have elite speed but is very good after the catch, he is elusive, he can return punt effectively. I prefer a polished WR over a guy who can only run fade. Williams came from a pro offense and is the perfect fit for the WCO.

***Bar-bq*** · -04-22-2010, 05:08 AM

Re: Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

Originally posted by Torry Holt View Post

I disagree. Williams is not a possession guy, he doesn't have elite speed but is very good after the catch, he is elusive, he can return punt effectively. I prefer a polished WR over a guy who can only run fade. Williams came from a pro offense and is the perfect fit for the WCO.

Don't get me wrong, I like Williams a lot and he'll be good in a WCO. He just doesn't scream Big Time Threat to me. His route running, as you say, is superb and I understand how valuable this makes him in a WCO. The other element of his game that shouldn't be discounted is his blocking. This is where Williams falters and Thomas stands out.

FWIW, here are some grabs I've pulled out on Williams to illustrate my case. The first is Scott Wright and the second Mocking the Draft.

Not particularly flashy and lacks star potential but a polished all-around wideout with adequate physical tools and superb intangibles --- Classic possession type who can thrive in a complimentary role --- Profiles as a #2 option in the NFL.

On the field, Williams led the Trojans offense in receving for two straight seasons as he proved to be a guy that can do it in a variety of ways. He is mainly a short-to-intermediate threat that runs impeccable routes and catches most passes near his body

In the interest of fairness, here are those same two sources on Thomas.

A very intriguing prospect and extremely impressive physical specimen but also carries considerable risk due to all of the projection that's involved in his evaluation --- Looks like a first round pick on paper and appears to have all of the physical tools that you look for --- Could potentially be a true #1 wideout at the next level.

If he had been playing in an NFL pro set offense, Thomas could be the most sought after receiver in this class. But because of his lack of experience running the full route tree and reading coverages, he is going to enter the league as a raw talent that needs a lot of coaching. The ceiling with this player is just as high as any receiver in this class, yet he will likely be available in the second round. Considering his strong work ethic and love for all aspects of the game, one has to believe that Thomas is going to mold himself in to a top flight receiver in the NFL. Once he learns the little details surrounding technique, he is going to be a legit number one receiver that can do it all.

***tomahawk247*** · -04-22-2010, 05:49 AM

Re: Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

I do agree that Thomas has the potential to be a number 1 receiver, and if he is by far and away the best value at the top of the second then we should get him.

However, he is a project, and i think we have too many holes on this team to be drafting a guy that will probably have to sit a year to pick up the ins and outs of an nfl offense. We need a guy like James Laurinaitis who can come in and contribute right away.

I would prefer most of the players you have going directly after Thomas, such as McCourtney or Jackson at CB, Houston at DT, Griffin at DE, Benn and Tate at WR or even Ducasse at OT

I think if there is a team that loves Thomas, and there will be, and he is sat at the top of the second round as the best talent available, then i say we trade down. You can say that the Bucs, Lions, Chiefs, Browns and Bills all could benefit from another WR, and if they wanna move up for Thomas then we should certainly listen. Get them in a bidding war to move up for the WR and we could come out with a good deal.

***Bar-bq*** · -04-22-2010, 05:54 AM

Re: Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

Originally posted by tomahawk247 View Post

However, he is a project, and i think we have too many holes on this team to be drafting a guy that will probably have to sit a year to pick up the ins and outs of an nfl offense. We need a guy like James Laurinaitis who can come in and contribute right away.

Sam Bradford, anyone?? ;)

I think if there is a team that loves Thomas, and there will be, and he is sat at the top of the second round as the best talent available, then i say we trade down. You can say that the Bucs, Lions, Chiefs, Browns and Bills all could benefit from another WR, and if they wanna move up for Thomas then we should certainly listen. Get them in a bidding war to move up for the WR and we could come out with a good deal.

I can't say I disagree with your logic. There are an abundance of players worth our time at the top of the second and if we can acquire an extra pick in the process of acquiring one then then so be it. For my mind, Thomas is the best value and the best prospect at that point, barring a trade back.

***tomahawk247*** · -04-22-2010, 06:28 AM

Re: Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

Hmm, ive just had a look around some of the most recent mocks and some of them have Thomas going as high as #12 to Miami!

Certainly i wouldnt be upset if we did take Thomas at the top of the second, but depending on who is available there may be other players i prefer. I'm just not sure because of the gimmicky offense that Georgia Tech run.

***Bar-bq*** · -04-22-2010, 06:31 AM

Re: Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

Originally posted by tomahawk247 View Post

Certainly i wouldnt be upset if we did take Thomas at the top of the second, but depending on who is available there may be other players i prefer. I'm just not sure because of the gimmicky offense that Georgia Tech run.

That's completely fair. It's worth noting that GA Tech was top to tails a run dominated football team last season.

***general counsel*** · -04-22-2010, 06:59 AM

Re: Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

I dont know why anyone thinks Thomas is a project (anymore than any other rookie receiver is a project). A lot of people dont appreciate the numbers that Thomas put up in the context of being the ONLY recieving option on a team that rarely threw the ball. I went to every tech game this year and Thomas is a real playmaker with great ball skills, terrific blocking, great size and strenght. Josh Nesbitt, the tech qb, has absolutely no accuracy of any kind. Critcizing Thomas' route running is VERY unfair if you watch him play. He was open on virtually every route and he wondered off the route time and again because the ball was nowhere near where it was supposed to be most of the time.

This would be a great pick for the rams at 33 and i strongly doubt that he will be available at that point but would love to have him if he is.

As to the gimmicky tech offense, that point HURTS thomas, not helps him. His numbers in spite of the offense (including its terrible throwing qb) are what should be catching peoples attention.

ramming speed to all

general counsel

Scenario 1 11.54%	3
Scenario 2 0.00%	0
Scenario 3 11.54%	3
Scenario 4 7.69%	2
Scenario 5 15.38%	4
Scenario 6 3.85%	1
Scenario 7 11.54%	3
Scenario 8 38.46%	10

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Bar-bq's 21/4/10 Three Round NFL Mock Draft

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