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  • Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

    If our DT's can do their job.

    Last year, one thing I noticed was that on pass downs, our DTs were invisible out there, and their presence was barely felt.

    Whether it was directly trying to force pressure up the middle of the pocket, or take on double teams to let linebackers blitz through the middle, our DTs couldn't consistently do that well, resulting in our haphazard pass rush.


    Chris Long, I noticed, would consistently get very close to sacking the QB, but the QB would just step up because there was no danger of the middle of the pocket collapsing on him. IMO, Chris Long could have had at least 4-5 more sacks. And maybe even more.



    With the additon of Robbins, and the steady improvement of Scott and Ryan, I think that this year our DTs will do their job a lot better than last year.


    And if they do, look for Chris Long and James Hall to create havoc.


    In my opinion, the one most pressing thing we need on our defense right now is a quick DT that is a penetrator. We have enough fat blobs.

  • #2
    Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

    it wouldn`t surprise me if Hall Davis was converted to UT in the Pro`s..Selvie and Sims will have to bulk up a bit with Selvie being about 254 lbs and Sims 6'6 played at 235 lbs in college but said to be already nearly 250 lbs now..they can stay on the edge.

    Davis was 271lbs in college but didn`t have great production off the edge...and it was a little surprising they drafted 3 DE`s but no DT`s...maybe they see him as a UT if he could put another 20 lbs on..which isn`t too much really..
    hell, he`s already as big as some of the DT`s the Colts have used in recent years..even if it wasn`t successfully.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

      ...we sign John Henderson. Well, at least it couldn't hurt. Actually, FWIW, the Giants' DTs were never marquee names. From what I understand, that's why they started shifting Tuck inside in the first place. They weren't getting much from Robbins, Cofield, and company.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

        that be true Fleece..

        plus we have got Darell Scott who can move for a man his size...it`s plausible that he could evolve into a good disruptive UT who can get in the backfield!
        for what its worth..his 40 time is quicker than Suh`s..

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

          For DT's its more about the 10 yard split, broad jump,and vertical. All of that test their initial explosion which is the key to being a good penetrator.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

            YouTube - Why the Rams Need a Defensive Tackle (Suh or McCoy)

            I know exactly what you mean man.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

              I like the video. Makes me worry that we didnt draft a DT. Cuz I dont think Robbins is the answer. And I dont think Darrell Scott and Cliffton Ryan can do it alone. One more monster DT could make all the difference.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

                Originally posted by The Optimistic Lamb View Post
                I like the video. Makes me worry that we didnt draft a DT. Cuz I dont think Robbins is the answer. And I dont think Darrell Scott and Cliffton Ryan can do it alone. One more monster DT could make all the difference.
                Next year. Next year.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

                  *sigh* just because a guy isn't drafted doesn't mean he won't be good. If no Suh or Mccoy, then i'd have passed on one this year. How much more impact do you think a late round DT would do for us? They'd have the same struggles Scott had last year getting accustomed to the NFL. I'm looking forward to Scott's progression this year, personally. The guy can get up the field and penetrate and showed that as a rookie.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

                    Both would get better numbers if we picked up big Henderson, and Osi. More chance of us just getting Henderson at this point (seeing he is definately available)

                    Imagine....

                    Osi Ryan/Scott Henderson/Robbins Long

                    That would be real nice

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

                      Both will get better stats if you just increase the number of 3rd and longs and increase the CB play. A lot of people look at the number of sacks and think that's proof of a great DE or not but many times the sack total is proof of a great defense. Long didn't have a lot of 3rd and 10's to just pin his ears back and rush the passer. When you increase those opportunities, sacks will come.

                      If you remember back to Wistrom, the guy got his sacks late in the game on 3rd and long. He wasn't a great DE, he was just opportunistic.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

                        Originally posted by Ramblin` Ram View Post
                        it wouldn`t surprise me if Hall Davis was converted to UT in the Pro`s..Selvie and Sims will have to bulk up a bit with Selvie being about 254 lbs and Sims 6'6 played at 235 lbs in college but said to be already nearly 250 lbs now..they can stay on the edge.

                        Davis was 271lbs in college but didn`t have great production off the edge...and it was a little surprising they drafted 3 DE`s but no DT`s...maybe they see him as a UT if he could put another 20 lbs on..which isn`t too much really..
                        hell, he`s already as big as some of the DT`s the Colts have used in recent years..even if it wasn`t successfully.
                        Hmm. I think they might move Davis to the middle on pass downs to be a quicker penetrator than the many NTs we have now.

                        Idk, to me, I don't think Sims is going to make the roster.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

                          The Rams need of a penatrading DT has been a issue for a long time.
                          I wanted the Rams to draft DT Geno Atkins for his pass rushing ability and bring him in on passing downs. Let Scott, Robbins & Ryan rotate in play on running downs. Make sure there is a fresh DT for the entire game.
                          Maybe one of the rookie DE can bring some heat on passing downs. Leave C.J. Ah You & Adeyanju in on running downs if there still with the Rams. Adeyanju has been in the NFL for five years now maybe time to move on. Same goes with C.J. Ah You but has two years experence. Need to make room on roster for players who have a chance to develope into great players. Example Rams Back up DE Eric Moore. Five years and couldn't make starting unit.

                          I'm not sure but didn't Rams bring in J. Hall on passing downs to play DT some times during the last couple of years.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

                            Yep, our defensive ends will be more successful with better talent between them on the defensive line. If there is someone on the interior line who can collapse the pocket and prevent the quarterback from stepping up and away from outside pressure, it's going to help the ends. Better tackles will also help if, as Rebel talked about, they can help but the offense in more third and long situations.

                            That's one of the reasons Suh was my preference, because I feel he could be an excellent interior pass rusher at the next level and his presence would help everyone around him (echoed by Mayock on draft day regarding how he'd help the Lions). I wouldn't be surprised if the Rams looked hard at DTs next year at some point.

                            Honestly, I don't have much faith that our current crop of DTs is going to do much in this area for us. Ryan is a solid player, but Robbins is declining and should be used situationally at this point in his career. Scott didn't blow anyone away as a college penetrator in the ACC, and didn't show much as a rookie. After them, it's mostly roster bubble guys.

                            Hopefully the staff can coach some of these guys up and get some production from them, but I think there's really only so much coaching can do. At some point, you have to be able to play.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Chris Long and James Hall will be successful if...

                              Originally posted by Nick View Post
                              Yep, our defensive ends will be more successful with better talent between them on the defensive line. If there is someone on the interior line who can collapse the pocket and prevent the quarterback from stepping up and away from outside pressure, it's going to help the ends. Better tackles will also help if, as Rebel talked about, they can help but the offense in more third and long situations.

                              That's one of the reasons Suh was my preference, because I feel he could be an excellent interior pass rusher at the next level and his presence would help everyone around him (echoed by Mayock on draft day regarding how he'd help the Lions). I wouldn't be surprised if the Rams looked hard at DTs next year at some point.

                              Honestly, I don't have much faith that our current crop of DTs is going to do much in this area for us. Ryan is a solid player, but Robbins is declining and should be used situationally at this point in his career. Scott didn't blow anyone away as a college penetrator in the ACC, and didn't show much as a rookie. After them, it's mostly roster bubble guys.

                              Hopefully the staff can coach some of these guys up and get some production from them, but I think there's really only so much coaching can do. At some point, you have to be able to play.
                              Very much agreed, everyone is saying "they were progressing well toward the end of the season" I really don't care how they progress, if they don't help win games then who cares if they progress..

                              Comment

                              Related Topics

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                              • MauiRam
                                James Hall giving Rams much-needed pass rush ..
                                by MauiRam
                                BY BILL COATS Saturday, October 9, 2010 12:20 am

                                If James Hall needs a publicity agent, fellow Rams defensive end Chris Long is up to the job.

                                "James has always been a good player, a guy who I think people should know more about," Long said. "So much in this league is based on hype and who's who. He's excelled even on teams ... that haven't done so well."

                                In Hall's case, "haven't done so well" is a vast understatement. In Hall's 10 years in the NFL coming into this season seven with Detroit and the last three with the Rams his teams posted a combined record of 39-121.

                                That's basically an average finish of 4-12. Over a decade.

                                But if the 6-foot-2, 281-pound Hall, 33, is worn down by all the losing, it isn't showing. He's already racked up a team-high four sacks this season, a total exceeded by only four players leaguewide.

                                Hall's career high is 11, in 2004. He had 4 sacks last year, when defensive end Leonard Little led the Rams with 6.

                                Little didn't return this year, creating a need for a strong pass rusher. "It was just something we knew we had to have," Hall said. "Regardless of whether Leonard was here or not, that was something we had to get, pressure. It's something we continue to work on every day."

                                Said coach Steve Spagnuolo: "I love Leonard. But in this league, the guys that are here have to step up and play. And we're getting some pretty good play out of our defensive ends."

                                Hall arrives at Rams Park at about 6 a.m., where he begins a daily ritual that doesn't vary much. "He's a workhorse," rookie defensive end Eugene Sims said. "He's the first one here and the last one to leave."

                                Hall studies film religiously and spends a good portion of his time devising ways to exploit his upcoming opponent.

                                "Just working my technique during the course of the week, working my craft," he explained, "and coming up with game plans for guys and then trying to go out and execute it."

                                Obtained in a trade with the Lions in March 2007, Hall moved immediately into a starting role on the right side, opposite Little. Long now is getting full-time reps at left end, and Hall often slides inside in running situations.

                                On Sunday in Detroit, Hall will be going against a familiar opponent a former University of Michigan teammate, Lions tackle Jeff Backus in a familiar setting.

                                "I played a lot of football, college and pro, in the state of Michigan," Hall said. "It's always good to go back there to that city and play some ball at Ford Field."

                                Hall hooked on with the Lions as an undrafted rookie in 2000. He was taught the ropes by veteran defensive end Robert Porcher and five-time Pro Bowler Charles Haley, who coached Detroit's...
                                -10-09-2010, 01:01 AM
                              • schut39
                                Long and Hall
                                by schut39
                                Did anyone see how Chris Long did I don't think he got any tackles but does anyone know if he got any pressure on the qb or anything? Also, did Dante Hall play becuase I only saw Donnie Avery and Brandon Williams returning kicks.

                                I would also like to add that Avery and Burton were very impressive vs. the Ravens.
                                -08-23-2008, 09:08 PM
                              • berg8309
                                Appreciating Chris Long
                                by berg8309
                                I know Long gets a lot of positive comments on these boards, but on the eve of pro bowl selections, I just wanted to point out a few good things regarding our #2 overall pick of 2008.

                                Chris Long doesn't have the gaudy sack numbers, but he still has a lot of sacks. He has 8.5 sacks, which is 20th in the NFL. However what this stat doesn't tell is how Long forces QBs to move into the arms of Hall and Robbins as they try to escape the heat he is bringing. This also forces the QB to move to their left, which for most QBs makes it harder to throw, they'd rather roll right (unless they are left handed).

                                Long also often forces a double team which leaves less blockers on blitzes and makes our overall blitz game much more effective at disrupting the passing game.

                                Speaking of disrupting the passing game, according to Footballoutsiders, Long still leads the league in QB hurries. Which means that despite the fact the sack leader has managed to hit the QB with the ball still in his hand a whole 5.5 more times than Long (Less than once a game), Long is making the QB get rid of the ball and potentially make bad throws more often. Don't forget that part of a sack is coverage, if there is no one to throw to, the QB is much more likely to be sacked.

                                At the end of the day what you see is that, despite the lack of gaudy eye-popping stat numbers that voters and pro-bowl selectors probably look for, Chris Long has been as dominant a pass-rusher as it gets. I doubt Hall or Robbins has the sack numbers they do without Long getting in the QBs face as often as he does.

                                So I guess my point is, if Long doesn't make the pro bowl, it doesn't matter, because what matters is that he is making everyone else on that line better even if he isn't get the numbers to back it up.
                                -12-28-2010, 03:17 PM
                              • RamFan_Til_I_Die
                                If nothing changes, who's the starting D-Line?
                                by RamFan_Til_I_Die
                                I look at who we currently have on our roster on the D-Line and I'm a bit concerned. Considering how our D-Line has been a weakness for so long, I'm not sure why it never seems to be a higher priority on draft day or in free agency. Here's what we got:

                                Adeyanju, Victor LDE
                                Ah You, C.J. LDE
                                Wyche, James LDE
                                Selvie, George LDE
                                Hall, James RDE
                                Long, Chris RDE
                                Conover, Sean RDE
                                Sims, Eugene RDE
                                Douzable, Leger LDT
                                Bradwell, Chris LDT
                                Gibson, Gary LDT
                                Robbins, Fred LDT
                                Ryan, Clifton RDT
                                Scott, Darell RDT

                                So who do you have starting where, and are you as concerned as I am?
                                -04-26-2010, 10:21 AM
                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Ram Defensive Ends
                                by Guest
                                Should James Hall and Victor Adeyanju get the start, with Little and Long coming in on rotations and passing downs?

                                It's odd that both of our starters are undersized yet we wonder why we struggle to stop the run.

                                The flip side is that the Rams are known around the league as a team (or defense) you want to get into the nickle or dime and then run on them. Bengals did it. Falcons did it, but they can flat run on great defenses so.

                                I'm just curious as to why we stick with Little and Long if in reality we (at times) would probably have a more stable defense with our two backups in there more. Curious what you guys think about this. And hey, it doesn't involve Bulger.

                                lol
                                -09-01-2009, 01:10 PM
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