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  • Rams too clever trading out of the 1st

    So, we finally get a first round pick (though a low one) and we trade it for a mid second and a mid third and throw in a 6th. I am not impressed. These guys might be too cute for their own good.

  • #2
    Originally posted by cowboyhater View Post
    So, we finally get a first round pick (though a low one) and we trade it for a mid second and a mid third and throw in a 6th. I am not impressed. These guys might be too cute for their own good.
    Who did you want in the first round? Other than Ford, I think just about everybody else we would have targeted has at least a decent chance of being available at 45. We only traded down 14 spots, and netting a 3rd rounder is huge for this team. As I mentioned in the other thread, this current regime has made 3 3rd round picks: Kupp, Johnson, and Noteboom. Having three third round picks allows us to pick BPA at 45 and still fill our holes at OL, DL, and LB.

    Comment


    • #3
      this was a terrible trade. value wise, the Falcons got better v as we went down to a mid second round, as and even more meaningless 3rd rounder.

      we now have 12 teams ahead of us who could pick every single player we thought would be there.

      I won't be surprised If we draft Andy Rose tomorrow because all the other players we wanted are gone.

      I'm not a notebloom or Allen supporter either, as those 2 haven't shown they were as good or better than their contemporaries as demonstrated by there n ok n starter status last year.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Akita Ram View Post
        this was a terrible trade. value wise, the Falcons got better v as we went down to a mid second round, as and even more meaningless 3rd rounder.

        we now have 12 teams ahead of us who could pick every single player we thought would be there.

        I won't be surprised If we draft Andy Rose tomorrow because all the other players we wanted are gone.

        I'm not a notebloom or Allen supporter either, as those 2 haven't shown they were as good or better than their contemporaries as demonstrated by there n ok n starter status last year.
        You should definitely save this post. If Noteboom and Allen amount to nothing, and/or the picks we make are truly worthless, this will make for a good "told you so" moment.

        However, history says there may be more value to this trade that what you may think. Going just off the trade value chart, we actually come out ahead in the swapping of the picks. But that aside, look at the players on our roster who have come to the team in the 2nd, 3rd, or even later. Last year, we had 12 draftees who started at least 8 games for us. Of that dozen, only 4 were first rounders. The other 8 were picked up in the area of, or later than, the spots where this trade landed us more picks.

        Now, an argument could be made that those 4 first rounders landed us some of the biggest pieces of this team (Goff, Gurley, Donald, Brockers). True, but none of them were picked up with the 31st pick (1st, 10th, 13th, 14th respectively).

        It'll play out over the next few seasons, but I wouldn't be so quick to write off this trade.
        The more things change, the more they stay the same.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Rawr View Post

          Who did you want in the first round?
          I don't follow the college game enough to judge available talent. I do assume that BPA at 31 is better than BPA at 45. If there were a BPA talent curve that breaks just before 31 and doesn't break again until after 45, I guess I get it it. If we were going to trade down, I would expect more than a mid 2nd and a mid 3rd for a low 1st and low 6th. It looks like we were shopping the pick, instead of being approached by a team that really wanted the pick. I'm okay with trading down, when approached by a team with eye on a player we don't want. If Mike Ditka offered me his entire draft and a top pick next year for one top pick I'm good with accepting the trade.

          Comment


          • #6
            Akita, do you view kupp and johnson as meaningless guys? Both were third rounders picked by this regime. I dont agree with the rationale that noteboom is no good because he couldnt beat out anyone last year. Same with Allen. Time will tell of course, but sometimes it takes some time to learn and improve through a year of practice. By your rationale, if a player isnt good enough to start his rookie year, he is never good enough. Sure, sullivan and blythe could have been better and they were exposed in the super bowl, but its really unfair to say that they were bad our lousy all year. They were exposed against the very top defenses, not against everyone. The noteboom and allen arguments are really secondary however, The real point is that the statement that 3rd round picks are meaningless is simply not accurate with respect to our recent third round picks and while that is no guarantee that whoever we pick in the third round this year turns out to be as good as kupp and johnson, it hardly makes the possession of those picks meaningless.

            ramming speed to all

            general counsel

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by general counsel View Post
              Akita, do you view kupp and johnson as meaningless guys? Both were third rounders picked by this regime. I dont agree with the rationale that noteboom is no good because he couldnt beat out anyone last year. Same with Allen. Time will tell of course, but sometimes it takes some time to learn and improve through a year of practice. By your rationale, if a player isnt good enough to start his rookie year, he is never good enough. Sure, sullivan and blythe could have been better and they were exposed in the super bowl, but its really unfair to say that they were bad our lousy all year. They were exposed against the very top defenses, not against everyone. The noteboom and allen arguments are really secondary however, The real point is that the statement that 3rd round picks are meaningless is simply not accurate with respect to our recent third round picks and while that is no guarantee that whoever we pick in the third round this year turns out to be as good as kupp and johnson, it hardly makes the possession of those picks meaningless.

              ramming speed to all

              general counsel
              I don't view them as meaningless- I do view them as inconsequential in context of this trade.

              I could palate it if we had gotten a 33rd to 39th 2nd rounder.

              however picking 13th in the 2nd round of this draft I'm feeling was a play that snead made just to make a play.

              I may be wrong , but anyone who could shore up holes for the rams will be gone by the time they pick.

              they will end up taking someone who normally would have gone later because they now are in desperation mode.

              at 31 perhaps someone like risner or Ford would have fit the bill, but I have a hard time think il ng that someone of that caliber will be there for them I'm rd 2.

              Comment


              • #8
                in re to the olineman who didn't start past year

                1) notebloom... the only problem I have with him is he was a 3rd rounder...
                rams could've gotten him later.

                2) Allen- I dont see anything this guy has done but remind me of that Alabama center we had.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by cowboyhater View Post

                  I don't follow the college game enough to judge available talent. I do assume that BPA at 31 is better than BPA at 45. If there were a BPA talent curve that breaks just before 31 and doesn't break again until after 45, I guess I get it it. If we were going to trade down, I would expect more than a mid 2nd and a mid 3rd for a low 1st and low 6th. It looks like we were shopping the pick, instead of being approached by a team that really wanted the pick. I'm okay with trading down, when approached by a team with eye on a player we don't want. If Mike Ditka offered me his entire draft and a top pick next year for one top pick I'm good with accepting the trade.
                  Per Snead, we had a few guys we were eyeing at 31, but none of them fell to us. Most draft experts believe the strength of this draft is in rounds 2-4, so having 4 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds seems well managed. There were 5-10 guys that made sense at 31, and I imagine at least 1 or 2 will still be there at 45. We'll have to see how things play out, but Snead has historically managed the draft well, so I believe this will work out.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Akita Ram View Post
                    I could palate it if we had gotten a 33rd to 39th 2nd rounder.
                    I doubt anybody was going to give up a 3rd rounder just to move up 2 spots at that point in the draft. It's not like they were moving up from 8 to 6.

                    they will end up taking someone who normally would have gone later because they now are in desperation mode.
                    Desperation? If anything, the extra pick keeps them from having to make a desperation move. They're now in a much better position to go after BPA instead of filling a specific need.

                    at 31 perhaps someone like risner or Ford would have fit the bill, but I have a hard time think il ng that someone of that caliber will be there for them I'm rd 2.
                    ESPN currently has us getting McCoy at 45, which would likely be a Day 1 starter, and Risner is still available until 54 in their mock as well. I do agree that Ford will likely not be available.
                    Last edited by Rawr; -04-26-2019, 03:03 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As HUb alluded to earlier, the Rams got the better end of this deal. The Rams gave up picks #31 and #203 for a total of 609.8 points on the infamous draft pick value chart. The Falcons gave the Rams picks #45 and #79, which totals 645 points.

                      This idea that the Rams could/should have gotten more is dependent on (1) another team also interested in trading up there and (2) that team offering a better package than what the Falcons did. I haven't seen a single report to suggest either of those two things happened. And I'm willing to bet New England, with their history of moving down in the draft, would have done so if someone was throwing around offers that were better than what Atlanta offered the Rams. They didn't, so there's that.

                      The further you find yourself from the top of the draft board, the closer these player grades are going to get. When you're talking about the players on your board ranked, say, 25-45, there probably isn't very much separation in terms of their evaluations and grades.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        WalterFootball's analysis of the trade...

                        Falcons acquire No. 31 overall pick (Kaleb McGary) and No. 203 (6th) from Rams for No. 45 (2nd) and 79 (3rd)
                        The Falcons were the losers of this trade, no matter how you dissect it. They surrendered a valuable third-round pick to move up for a player they could have chosen at No. 45. Had Kaleb McGary not been available in an unlikely scenario, Atlanta could have chosen a similar lineman. There are plenty of talented blockers still available, and at least one would have dropped into the middle of the second round.

                        Meanwhile, the trade value chart says the Falcons lost this deal by a five-percent margin. That's not a huge deal, and it's not like Atlanta got ripped off, or anything, but it's usually the team that trades down that receives less value. It's uncommon to see the team moving up surrender more than the other party in the trade.

                        With all that in mind, the Rams are the clear winners of this trade. They wanted to move down because they wouldn't be picking again until the bottom of the third round, so they were able to acquire an important extra asset to help them replenish their roster.

                        Grade for Falcons - D-
                        Grade for Rams - A

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nick View Post
                          WalterFootball's analysis of the trade...
                          let's hope it was for the best- time will be the barometer

                          I just feel that this de radt has 1st round talent about 40 picks deep, and now the rams will have to select sub prime talent that they didn't need to do.

                          Last edited by Akita Ram; -04-26-2019, 04:46 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by cowboyhater View Post
                            So, we finally get a first round pick (though a low one) and we trade it for a mid second and a mid third and throw in a 6th. I am not impressed. These guys might be too cute for their own good.
                            Honestly it almost had to be done with our salary cap situation.

                            Comment

                            Related Topics

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                            • ramhard
                              Rather than trading down - I want 2 first round choices
                              by ramhard
                              With so many teams looking to trade down, I think I'd try to get a 2nd 1st choice. With the CB market being so hot (see what Surtain got!), I think having to keep your corners is going to get very expensive. Signing a low 1st round corner will work out great financially, and in some ways better than if you drafted them lower as you can lock them in for 5 years rather than 3. So I'd trade our #2 and the 2nd #3 (plus one of the comp picks in the 7th if necessary) for a low 1st. I'd pick up Brown with the 1st #1 and get a corner like Miller or Jackson with the second pick (not sold on Fabian Washington).
                              That way the Rams get the OT plus CB, and pick up a FS with the high #3 pick.
                              -04-22-2005, 10:52 AM
                            • AvengerRam_old
                              What would it take to trade back into Round 2?
                              by AvengerRam_old
                              Looking at the Trade Value Chart, there are a couple of possibilities:

                              Package both 3rd round picks (#71, #92) for a second round pick
                              The Rams two 3rd rounders are worth a total of 367 points. This equates to a second round pick in the range of pick #52-55.

                              Package a 3rd (#71) and fourth (#113) round pick for a second round pick
                              These picks are valued at 303 points, which equates to a selection at the end of the second round, around #59-61.

                              Use future draft picks
                              I would not even consider putting one of the Rams' two 2014 first round picks on the block at this point, but I might consider a deal that includes a Day 2 2014 pick if it meant getting one of the top safeties remaining (Cyprien, S.Thomas).

                              Anyone like any of these options?
                              -04-26-2013, 09:46 AM
                            • timsum1283
                              2nd round trade
                              by timsum1283
                              so with the new format of the nfl draft, there will be a lot of down time between the 32nd pick and the 33rd. as someone previously mentioned that gives a lot of time for teams to be wheeling and dealing for 2nd round picks. If u are Billy D, what does it take for u to trade pick #33? players? picks?

                              this is just me spitballing but every year the denver broncos seem to make a lot of draft day trades (and always seem to draft a rb). do u think if given the right situation they would be willing to trade Brandon Marshall or next year's 1st for the Rams 2nd this year? if so would u make that trade?

                              it's likely that a player with first round talent will drop to round 2 like Best, Tate, Kindle, maybe even Mays/Dunlap. IMO if a player like Weatherspoon isn't there I would really like to trade down in round 2 and pick up some extra picks down the road. would you be interested in trading it for more picks/players or would u rather be content with staying at spot #33?
                              -03-15-2010, 09:57 PM
                            • AvengerRam_old
                              Don't Turn Off Your TV After Pick #35
                              by AvengerRam_old
                              I think it would be a mistake to assume that the Rams will be done for the day after they make their second round pick (#35 overall) on Saturday. In fact, I'd place good odds on the Rams trying to move up to get a second pick in Round 2.

                              According to the Trade Value Chart, a package of the Rams 3rd Round pick (#66) and their 4th round pick (#103) would be sufficient to move up to pick number 55 or 56 in Round 2. A package of their 3rd round pick and 5th Round pick would be equivalent to obtain pick number 61 or 62.

                              If the Rams have their eyes set on a guy who is still there around the 50th pick, they will likely start working the phones. I think a lot of teams would be happy to get an extra selection, so there could be a number of takers.

                              Don't touch that dial!
                              -04-21-2009, 08:45 AM
                            • peramoure
                              Excited for.. Friday?
                              by peramoure
                              I think it is almost a foregone conclusion that we're getting Bradford. I used to worship the draft Saturday, sitting around all day watching through round 4 or so.

                              But man, is our pick valuable this year. Imagine last year, holding a high 2nd round pick.. and having 5 minutes to make a decision on a deal.

                              Can you IMAGINE how our phone will be ringing if someone slips? What is Weatherspoon, or Brandon Graham, or Golden Tate or somebody is sitting right there, just like the Ray Mauluga or Laurinitis was last year, or Devin Thomas the year before.

                              We could have SOOO many offers if a coveted player is there, and a WHOLE DAY to wait for the best one. I, for one, am excited about Friday draft resuming and being at the top of the 2nd round. For the first time being a bad team in the 2nd round might be very, very, very lucrative.

                              What do you guys think?

                              David
                              -04-20-2010, 05:20 PM
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