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  • #16
    Re: Football 101

    Originally posted by Milan
    I'm not sure, but the 8, and 7 ones would be the outside, after the TE.
    It seems that there are only 6 gaps per our local expert. 7 and 8 would be considered running outside the box or the line....I think. They would not be gaps but areas to be covered by the defensive ends or the safeties ...maybe... possibily..can you tell that I am guessing?

    A friend of mine mentioned that the 4-3 defense would be better against the run and the 3-4 defense would be used against the pass since it put players in better position to defend each situation. Is this a fair statement? or a silly statement?
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    • #17
      Re: Football 101

      Originally posted by UtterBlitz
      It seems that there are only 6 gaps per our local expert. 7 and 8 would be considered running outside the box or the line....I think. They would not be gaps but areas to be covered by the defensive ends or the safeties ...maybe... possibily..can you tell that I am guessing?

      A friend of mine mentioned that the 4-3 defense would be better against the run and the 3-4 defense would be used against the pass since it put players in better position to defend each situation. Is this a fair statement? or a silly statement?
      From the institute....
      Originally posted by CIAFT
      On the first topic, yes the addition of a TE (or 2) on running plays can create extra gaps, however the 6 interior gaps must be accounted for even without TEs.

      On the second topic, contrary to what some might say, in theory, the 3-4 is actually better against the run, while the 4-3 is a better pass defense. The 4-3's main pass rush threat comes from a pair of DE's, pass rush specialists. In the 3-4, that pressure comes from an OLB and either another OLB or an ILB, the line really doesn't typically get a lot of pressure in a 3-4 D. On the flipside, the 4-3 is usually a 1-gap defense with linemen covering only 1 gap. That leaves a couple of gaps to be covered by LBs. IF a lineman can be neutralized by an individual OL, then the gap is now opened to the FB/RB combo on the LB. In a 3-4, the linemen have 2 gaps to cover, which, in theory occupies more OL'men and leaving 4 LBs open to plug the holes instead of 3.

      All of this is theory, mind you. In practice, players make plays in both the 3-4 and 4-3. However, on the chalkboard, the 3-4 is a run stop defense and the 4-3 is a pass stop defense.
      The more things change, the more they stay the same.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Football 101

        Originally posted by Milan
        Gaps would be where a runner can go through For example, this is how my team did it.


        8 (O) 6 O 4 O 2 O 1 O 3 O 5 (O) 7


        The O's are Linemen.

        The (O)'s are TE's / WRs.

        On the left side are holes 2-8 (All Even)
        On the right side are holes 1-7 (All Odd)


        That's how I learned it too

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        • #19
          Re: Football 101

          Originally posted by CIAFT
          All of this is theory, mind you. In practice, players make plays in both the 3-4 and 4-3. However, on the chalkboard, the 3-4 is a run stop defense and the 4-3 is a pass stop defense.
          I read the response and it sounds logical to me.

          I have many more defensive questions, but for the moment I would like to ask about kickers and punters.

          Can you please explain why there are two players that seem to do the same thing? Please discuss the different skill sets that each one must have to be successful, for instance hang time, ball placement, accuracy, leg strength, etc. A kicker's success is evident by the number of extra points and field goals that are made or missed. How do you rate a punter's skills?

          How many players are eligible to play kicker or punter? Has there ever been a player that has played both positions?

          Thank you for your responses.
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          • #20
            Re: Football 101

            Originally posted by UtterBlitz
            I read the response and it sounds logical to me.

            I have many more defensive questions, but for the moment I would like to ask about kickers and punters.

            Can you please explain why there are two players that seem to do the same thing? Please discuss the different skill sets that each one must have to be successful, for instance hang time, ball placement, accuracy, leg strength, etc. A kicker's success is evident by the number of extra points and field goals that are made or missed. How do you rate a punter's skills?

            How many players are eligible to play kicker or punter? Has there ever been a player that has played both positions?

            Thank you for your responses.

            I'm assuming it's just that kickers can kick it off the ground, while punters have to have it in their hands.

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            • #21
              Re: Football 101

              Originally posted by UtterBlitz
              I read the response and it sounds logical to me.

              I have many more defensive questions, but for the moment I would like to ask about kickers and punters.

              Can you please explain why there are two players that seem to do the same thing? Please discuss the different skill sets that each one must have to be successful, for instance hang time, ball placement, accuracy, leg strength, etc. A kicker's success is evident by the number of extra points and field goals that are made or missed. How do you rate a punter's skills?

              How many players are eligible to play kicker or punter? Has there ever been a player that has played both positions?

              Thank you for your responses.
              From the institute...
              Originally posted by CIAFT
              A rough answer to the difference between a kicker and a punter is to think of them in terms of golf. The FG kicker is like a golfer with a great short game. He finesses the ball right where he wants it, straight to the cup. A punter is like one of those over-grown apes that you see at your local driving range, a Happy Gilmore type if you will. While the kicker has to have a strong leg, his accuracy is much more important as he has to keep the ball between the goal posts to do his job. A punter basically wants to kick the ball as far as he can with as much hang time as he can. Accuracy is still important, but he has 50 yards (the width of the field) to work with instead of just the goal posts.

              Each position can vary their kicks depending on the situation. Maximum distance for a kick comes from leaving the foot at a 45 degree angle with the ground. However, if a kicker is in shorter territory, he will increase the angle so as to lessen the chance of being blocked. And if a punter is working in short field territory, he too will increase the angle to shorten the distance of his punt and increase his hangtime. This is also good if a punter is facing an extremely talented return man; the greater the hangtime, the less likely the chance of a return.

              Also, the skill sets for these two true "foot"ballers is quite different. They may seem similar, but the motions used to perfect their respective positions are as different as night and day. However, there are teams that have used one person for both, though it is rare in the NFL. What you may see in the NFL is using a punter for kick-offs (again, distance is more important than accuracy).

              Another interesting sidenote, most girls that have played football find themselves in one of these two positions. Since the female lower body is closer in strength to the male, females who have honed their accuracy have found their way into helmet and pads by being a place kicker.
              Last edited by HUbison; -03-26-2006, 12:11 PM.
              The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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              • #22
                Re: Football 101

                I thought that the girls usually ended up as the QB, but maybe that is tv shows making me think that.

                There was no real answer for how to rate the punter. I am assuming there is no easy statistic that proves or disproves their abilities.
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                • #23
                  Re: Football 101

                  Originally posted by UtterBlitz
                  I thought that the girls usually ended up as the QB, but maybe that is tv shows making me think that.

                  There was no real answer for how to rate the punter. I am assuming there is no easy statistic that proves or disproves their abilities.
                  From the institute....
                  Originally posted by CIAFT
                  The two quickest stats are gross average and net average. The gross average is simple: The number of yards from the line of scrimmage to where it either stops, goes out of bounds, or is caught. The net average is the yards from the line of scrimmage to the point where the return is stopped. In addition a punter can be judged by the number of kicks within the 20, number of touch backs, number of returns, number of fair catches, and of course, the always important hang-time.

                  The problem with some of these stats is they can be as much a function of special team support and yardage gained by the offense as they are the skill of the punter.

                  Our personal opinion is the best skill a punter can offer is consistency. A punter that kicks the ball 40-45 yards with a 4.5 second hangtime EVERY time is world's better than a punter who kicks a 50 yarder with a 5 second hang time this punt, then shanks a 15 yarder next time. All the great punters are nothing more than consistent.
                  The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Football 101

                    Can I get a definition for a slot receiver? When are they put in, and where do they line up? What is a slot exactly? Is a slot similar to a gap?
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                    • #25
                      Re: Football 101

                      Originally posted by UtterBlitz
                      Can I get a definition for a slot receiver? When are they put in, and where do they line up? What is a slot exactly? Is a slot similar to a gap?
                      Here's the response from the institute.
                      Originally posted by CIAFT
                      The slot receiver lines up between the line and a wide receiver. Typically, but certainly not always, the slot receiver runs short crisp routes to either swallow up zone defenders to open up the wide receivers or slot receivers will run short and intermediate routes as a "sure thing" to gain the first down. They won't gain as many yards as the wideouts, but their short routes end in a higher percentage of completions. A good example of a pure slot-possession receiver was Ricky Proehl. He wasn't a burner, but he had great hands and managed to move the chains when he was thrown at.

                      In the modern NFL, the slot receiver sees nearly as much time on the field as either the #1 or #2 receiver, especially on teams with a lesser TE. As well, slot receivers are almost a given on 3rd-and-short for a team that doesn't run the ball well.
                      The more things change, the more they stay the same.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Football 101

                        Great thread guys! I'm learning a thing or two myself.

                        Here's my question:

                        You hear about the H-back which supposedly plays at fullback and tight-end. But, I can't thnk of ever seeing anyone ever play the position full time. Is the H-back really used and who is someone that played the position regularly that we might know of?

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                        • #27
                          Re: Football 101

                          I have heared Cooley on the Redskins is the closest thing to a pure H-back in the league right now, but I am just repeating what I have heard.
                          I would like to know the answer to that ? myself viper.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Football 101

                            The response on the H-back question from the CIAFT...
                            Originally posted by CIAFT
                            The H-back is a hybrid position which requires certain skill sets of both a TE and a FB. The best asset a H-back brings to the game is his flexibility. He has to be able to line up outside as a TE, but also in the backfield as a FB. However, the beauty of the H-back is, the spot he lines up in is rarely where he stands when the ball is snapped. He may line up outside as a TE, but motion inside to block like a pulling guard. Or he may line up in the backfield as a lead blocker, but motion outside to become a receiver. A recent success story for H-back is the Vikings Jim Kleinsasser. While Kleinsasser has plenty of size to play TE, he has been moved in the back-field as well as on the line for the Vikings. The top H-back in the game today is Washington's Chris Cooley. Playing in the Joe Gibbs motion-rich offense is the perfect setting for a versatile blocker/receiver like Cooley, and his back-up Mike Sellers to move around from position to position. Gibbs in the past would use smaller H-backs like the 210 lb. Kelvin Bryant to move back and forth in his set. But the H-back has shifted now to smaller college TE's without the size to play full-time on the line. A perfect example is the 6'1", 230 lb., Patriot H-back Garrett Mills. In Tulsa, Mills was an outstanding receiving TE, but lacks the ideal size to match up with NFL LBs and safeties. However, his athleticism and versatility allows him to fill the role of H-back for Belichek's team.
                            The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Football 101

                              I've just read an article on the Falcons and what is so different about this west coast offense?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Football 101

                                Spectating seems to me to be part of Football 101. Perhaps CIAFT can help me muddle through what seems like a Hobson's Choice to me ...

                                It's the 4th qtr. Two-minute drill. No TOs. Rams on the move, down by a TD.

                                The dimwitted dog knocked over the keg while blocking the ole lady from storming to the last piece of pizza.

                                What's the proper ettiquite? Dive for the beer and miss a play?

                                The last time I dove for the beer, I misjudged the distance, slid thru the puddle, caught my balance with a finger in the outlet and shorted out the TV. Lost the beer and the tube in the same breathe.

                                The next time, I watched the game, left the beer for the dog to clean up. She got drunk and attacked the TV during overtime. Still lost the beer and the boobtube.

                                Is ther any guidance out there on how to get off the horns of a dilemma?

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