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SI: Coughlin picked the wrong time to replace Warner with Manning at QB

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  • SI: Coughlin picked the wrong time to replace Warner with Manning at QB

    Coughlin picked the wrong time to replace Warner with Manning at QB
    Posted: Tuesday November 16, 2004 11:17AM;
    Updated: Tuesday November 16, 2004 1:29PM

    New York Giants head coach Tom Coughlin announced the news in his typically stern manner. Eli Manning is the future of his team, Coughlin said during his Monday afternoon press conference, and the future is starting now. He talked about Manning's preparation and attitude and made it seem as if the rookie quarterback was ready to lead a team that is in a mind-boggling free-fall. But Coughlin didn't sound confident. He sounded desperate. And if he thinks Eli Manning is going to change the Giants' fortunes, he's about to be seriously disappointed.

    It's one thing for the New York media to clamor for Manning to replace struggling starter Kurt Warner. But for Coughlin to move to Manning now -- with the Giants sitting at 5-4 in a conference in which nine victories might secure a playoff spot -- smacks of sheer lunacy.

    What exactly does Manning bring to the Giants offense that Warner didn't? He's just as immobile as Warner, which means he'll be sitting in the pocket and probably taking as many sacks as Warner did over the last four weeks. That's the reality of playing behind an offensive line that has started to perform as poorly as many people expected it would when the season began. Manning certainly won't take better care of the football than Warner did last Sunday, when he didn't not give the ball away in a 17-14 loss to Arizona. Warner atoned for a four-turnover performance a week earlier by not giving the ball away once in a loss to Arizona. And the last time I checked, Manning wasn't playing both ways, so he couldn't help a defense that has blown double-digit leads against offensively challenged teams in consecutive weeks.

    There are countless issues for the Giants to address but apparently Manning is the man who will have to overcome them. It's a difficult position to place him in. He's only played in two games, both when the outcomes were clearly decided, so he'll have little feel for the action. He also didn't look so hot in his season-opening debut in relief of Warner, when Philadelphia Eagles defensive end Jerome McDougle hit him so hard that Manning briefly resembled a life-sized Bobblehead doll. Coughlin wisely stuck with Warner as his starter after that game, if for no other reason than that it made more sense for a 33-year-old quarterback to take that kind of abuse than the first pick in the draft. Now Manning is surely going to face worse treatment.

    His first opponent up will be Atlanta, a team that had seven sacks in a win over Tampa Bay last Sunday. He then gets an Eagles defense that will be blitzing him all afternoon. Then comes Washington, Baltimore and Pittsburgh, three teams that all rank among the NFL's top five defensive units. If people thought Warner was having problems moving the offense, wait until they see how Manning fares against those squads.

    This isn't to say that Manning is going to be a bust. He's the son of Archie, brother of Peyton. He'll be fine in a year or two. His place as the NFL's next poster boy is secure. But he won't be this season's next Ben Roethlisberger. He doesn't have any of the support that Roethlisberger has enjoyed. No outstanding defense. No sturdy offensive line. No power running game. And no low expectations. When Roethlisberger replaced an injured Tommy Maddox earlier this season, even his teammates weren't anticipating much from him. Any positive he gave them was a nice benefit. Manning is being asked to save a team's season. A team from New York, no less, which only heightens the pressure.

    It's the worst way for a quarterback to learn how to play in the NFL. Nobody in the Giants locker room will be talking about how great Manning will be in the coming years if his play costs them games now. They'll be watching all the other ordinary teams in the NFC chugging by them in the postseason race. They'll know that they'd be better off with an experienced quarterback at this time of the season than a rookie who has barely played a half of football. And the fact is Warner has earned the chance to play through these problems. He hasn't been spectacular but he's a big reason why they started the season with four wins in their first five games.

    Given Warner's experience in big games and handling a roller-coaster career, there's a good chance he might have weathered this stretch of adversity. He understands the ups and downs of NFL life as well as anybody, which would certainly give him an advantage in this season of ebbs and flows. Look around the NFC. Green Bay and St. Louis are sitting in first place in their respective divisions after many miserable moments. Minnesota and Seattle have cooled off after inspiring talk that they could reach the Super Bowl. None of these teams has panicked. The Giants, however, have done just that by going with Manning. He's definitely their future. But right now, that future looks far brighter than their present.


    Jeffri Chadiha covers the NFL for Sports Illustrated and is a frequent contributor to SI.com.

  • #2
    Re: SI: Coughlin picked the wrong time to replace Warner with Manning at QB

    I guess the other side of the coin is:

    Manning may get sacked as much as Warner, but Warners hand has proven to be more prone to have that ball pop out when sacked. It's not so much a concern in passing, but hanging on to the ball when getting sacked.

    It's what the fans want, and if they don't start Manning now, they would really get some flak to try to put him in later in the year. At this point it's not like "we give up". In week 12, however, it would be a sign that they are looking to next year, so might as well do it now.

    Too bad for Kurt. He might have taken the G-men to the playoffs, which would have been interesting.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: SI: Coughlin picked the wrong time to replace Warner with Manning at QB

      Tom Coughlin should be the poster boy for idiotic decisions, not Mike Martz. This decision just makes no sense, not when your 5-4 and in the thick of the playoff race. If Manning is successful, I for one will be shocked. Of course as a Warnerite and Manning hater ever since he snubbed the Chargers, I'm hoping he falls flat on his face. That is if he's able to keep his head attached to his shoulders. Welcome to the regular season Eli, your gonna love it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: SI: Coughlin picked the wrong time to replace Warner with Manning at QB

        Just for everyone's info, and to try and dispell a popular misconception, Warner, through 9 games this year, was 6th on the list of qb's and how often they fumble per sack. I realize that most people don't care about the facts in this regard and would rather just go by impression and perception but I thought I would throw it out there.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: SI: Coughlin picked the wrong time to replace Warner with Manning at QB

          Originally posted by moklerman
          Just for everyone's info, and to try and dispell a popular misconception, Warner, through 9 games this year, was 6th on the list of qb's and how often they fumble per sack. I realize that most people don't care about the facts in this regard and would rather just go by impression and perception but I thought I would throw it out there.
          Right, but are you saying that's okay, to be sixth?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: SI: Coughlin picked the wrong time to replace Warner with Manning at QB

            The solution to this dilemma is simple. One of Atlanta's defensive players takes one for the team and knocks Eli out in the 1st series. Warner has to return and NY lives with the results.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: SI: Coughlin picked the wrong time to replace Warner with Manning at QB

              Originally posted by afrightertoo
              The solution to this dilemma is simple. One of Atlanta's defensive players takes one for the team and knocks Eli out in the 1st series. Warner has to return and NY lives with the results.
              What a horrible thought - I wonder if adarian agrees with you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: SI: Coughlin picked the wrong time to replace Warner with Manning at QB

                Originally posted by AvengerRam
                What a horrible thought.
                You have to forgive me. There is a war or two or three going on right now. This is no time for morality, the story is still unfolding, and halloween is still being celebrated somewhere. Horror is the thought of the day.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: SI: Coughlin picked the wrong time to replace Warner with Manning at QB

                  Originally posted by afrightertoo
                  You have to forgive me. There is a war or two or three going on right now. This is no time for morality, the story is still unfolding, and halloween is still being celebrated somewhere. Horror is the thought of the day.
                  Wait a minute...I thought I just heard Adariantoo speaking. I'M SO CONFUSED! :redface:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: SI: Coughlin picked the wrong time to replace Warner with Manning at QB

                    Originally posted by r8rh8rmike
                    Tom Coughlin should be the poster boy for idiotic decisions, not Mike Martz. This decision just makes no sense, not when your 5-4 and in the thick of the playoff race. If Manning is successful, I for one will be shocked. Of course as a Warnerite and Manning hater ever since he snubbed the Chargers, I'm hoping he falls flat on his face. That is if he's able to keep his head attached to his shoulders. Welcome to the regular season Eli, your gonna love it.
                    OH HELL YES. I'm with you on that r8rh8r!

                    Comment

                    Related Topics

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                    • r8rh8rmike
                      Interesting Takes From Warner & Coughlin
                      by r8rh8rmike
                      Wednesday, June 9, 2004


                      By Sal Paolantonio
                      Special to ESPN.com

                      EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- You can see it in his eyes. Kurt Warner's eyes are wide open, revealing the happiness of a man who has emerged from the long slumber of lost opportunity.


                      "I feel completely re-energized," said Warner, as he came off the field after his first mini-camp practice with his new team, the New York Giants.



                      Warner lacked some zip on his passes during practices.
                      Rewind to Giants Stadium, Week 1 last year. Under constant pressure from Michael Strahan and company, Warner was sacked six times and fumbled six times, and started his last game for the St. Louis Rams. Sitting on the trainer's table in the visitors' locker room at Giants Stadium that Sunday afternoon, Warner had just been diagnosed with a mild concussion and his eyes had the vacant look of a man who had just bought a one-way ticket down the rabbit hole.


                      The contrast between Warner then and Warner now couldn't be more stark. And the situation couldn't be more ironic -- the team that ended his season has now handed Warner a chance at NFL redemption.


                      It's no wonder that Warner has displayed the same wide-eyed eagerness of the former stock boy from Iowa who emerged from NFL Europe and replaced the injured Trent Green to re-write the history of Rams football in St. Louis.


                      "Normally, the player will sit down and will have to talk to his agent on the phone," said Giants head coach Tom Coughlin. "He said, 'I don't want any of this. Let's get this done.' He signed right away. He was down the hall, looking for coaches, saying 'Let's go meet.' He wanted to get himself immersed in this offense right away."


                      There is good reason for Warner to be anxious. Coming to New York means that Warner, who will be 33 on June 22, will be under-going several mid-life, mid-course adjustments.


                      He must adjust to the demands of Coughlin's offense, which shall we say is a bit more conservative than the Greatest Show on Turf choreographed by Mike Martz. And Warner will be learning the new offense with a newly minted franchise quarterback, Eli Manning, looking over his shoulder.


                      The Giants invested two first-round draft picks and expended a lot of public relations good will to acquire Manning in a trade with San Diego in this year's NFL draft. Some see Warner as the perfect mentor for Manning, or at least a temporary diversion so that Manning can incubate his talents without being over-exposed by the white, hot lights of the New York media.


                      Warner will have none of that. You can tell by the tone and conviction in his voice that, for Warner, this is not about Peyton Manning's little brother.


                      "Obviously, I'm coming in to...
                      -06-10-2004, 04:07 PM
                    • txramsfan
                      "The Bachelor" is the #1 QB....for now
                      by txramsfan
                      http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2467200


                      EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. (AP) — The No. 1 pick in the draft and the guy with two MVP trophies and a Super Bowl ring stood in the back when the New York Giants offense began its drills at minicamp Monday.

                      Instead, "The Bachelor" led the way.
                      Jesse Palmer, who gained fame for his appearance on the reality TV show this summer, is currently the starting quarterback ahead of Eli Manning and Kurt Warner.

                      No one expects that to last, of course, not with Warner brought in last week to tutor the latest heir to the Manning quarterback dynasty. But long enough for Palmer to impress new coach Tom Coughlin.

                      "He has responded very well to the coaching and to what he has been asked to do," Coughlin said. "He is the guy who has really done a very good job of doing exactly what he has been coached to do."

                      In some ways, it's a surprise that Palmer is still a Giant after three years as a backup to the departed Kerry Collins - he was unimpressive after getting his first three starts last season when Collins sprained an ankle. Then it appeared that Coughlin and the team's new coaching staff were less than impressed that Palmer was involved in reality television when he should have been studying the team's new playbook.

                      In fact, some people were surprised that he wasn't let go when Warner was signed last Thursday - journeyman Kurt Kittner went instead. And he still might not make the team - Manning and Warner are sure things and rookie Jared Lorenzen and NFL Europe star Ryan Van Dyke are also on the roster.

                      But there he was on Monday with the first unit while Warner and Manning each waited their turn. And there apparently is some thought that when the season starts, he could back up Warner while Manning learns as the third stringer. That's how Carson Palmer, last year's overall No. 1 pick, learned in Cincinnati last season, beginning the season as the third-stringer behind Jon Kitna and Shane Matthews and moving up to No. 2 in October.

                      Jesse Palmer, a fourth-round draft pick in 2001, doesn't have close to the football credentials of the other two - he's far better known as "The Bachelor" than for anything he's done on the football field. Even at Florida under Steve Spurrier, he was only a part-time QB.

                      Warner, meanwhile, was the NFL's MVP in 1999 and 2001 and the MVP of the Super Bowl played in 2000. Manning is the latest product of the NFL's first family of quarterbacks and his brother, Peyton, was co-MVP of the league last season with the Colts.

                      Palmer insisted Monday that his television career never detracted from his preparation for football.

                      "The taping for the show was in the offseason," he said. "It ended in March and I've been working out and studying ever since. My head...
                      -06-08-2004, 05:44 AM
                    • WisRamsFan
                      Warner in the correct forum
                      by WisRamsFan
                      Warner becomes caretaker QB until Manning ready

                      By TOM CANAVAN, AP Sports Writer
                      June 3, 2004
                      EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. (AP) -- The New York Giants are taking some of the pressure off Eli Manning , signing Kurt Warner to be their caretaker quarterback until the top pick in the draft is ready to take over.

                      While the two-time MVP got a two-year contract late Wednesday that will pay him a minimum of $3.5 million this year, there is no guarantee the two-time NFL MVP will play for the Giants for more than a year.

                      When Manning is ready to go, he will be the Giants' quarterback.

                      ADVERTISEMENT


                      Until then, the job seemingly belongs to Warner, the soon-to-be 33-year-old who led the St. Louis Rams to Super Bowl appearances after the 1999 and 2001 seasons. Injuries and the emergence of Marc Bulger earned him a pink slip on Tuesday.

                      ``I am looking to come in and to play and to re-establish myself,'' Warner said at Thursday, hours after his first practice. ``I would love this to be where I finish my career.''

                      Warner has incentives that can push his salary to $8 million this season. However, the second year of his contract is voidable and his tenure may well be determined by Manning's progress in his rookie season.

                      ``I don't want to keep moving and picking up my family,'' Warner added. ``I want to continue to have success. I would love it to be here in New York and I will do whatever in my time here to be successful. We'll just see what happens.''

                      ``Obviously Manning is there, but this is New York and if Kurt wins, they are not going to want him to leave,'' said Mark Bartelstein, Warner's agent.

                      The signing takes a ton of pressure off Manning.

                      The son of Archie Manning and the brother of Colts quarterback Peyton Manning became the Giants' starting quarterback when Kerry Collins refused to take a pay cut and was released less than a week after New York got the No. 1 pick in a draft-day trade with San Diego.

                      Manning, who has known for weeks the Giants planned to sign a veteran, still plans on competing for the starting job.

                      ``I don't know if this takes the pressure off,'' Manning said. ``I don't know if anything has changed in my view. I am still going to practice just as hard as ever. I want to be ready.''

                      Manning and Warner spoke for a few minutes on Thursday. Warner plans to tutor Manning, just as he did with Bulger in St. Louis.

                      ``To teach a guy the little things and have him become a better quarterback was fun for me, as frustrating as it was not playing,'' Warner said. ``But I look forward to helping any way I can.''

                      Warner also is looking forward to playing again. He suffered a concussion in a season-opening loss to the Giants last season and did not start for the rest of the year. He...
                      -06-03-2004, 02:58 PM
                    • Nick
                      Just when we start to praise Kurt for a good start to the season...
                      by Nick
                      FORGET KOMEBACK KURT — GIVE ELI THE BALL

                      November 8, 2004 --

                      IT is time to get Eli Manning up in the bullpen. Get him ready, Tom Coughlin. The bloom came off Kurt Warner's rose yesterday.

                      Warner (two fumbles, two interceptions, seven sacks) gave the 5-3 Giants, disgraceful 28-21 losers to the Bears, absolutely no chance to win. You can round up plenty of suspects, and Coughlin will, but the most ominous development was Warner looking very much like the quarterback chased out of St. Louis by Mike Martz.

                      It was Warner who was chewed up by the teeth of Lovie Smith's carnivorous blitz and left wounded by a bloody Bear trap. The Eagles are three weeks away and if Warner staggers around the lot like some punch-drunk club fighter next Sunday in Arizona, Coughlin should not be afraid to give The Kid his NFL baptism under fire.

                      After what he witnessed yesterday, after what we have seen in Pittsburgh from wunderkind Ben Roethlisberger, the temptation soon may become irresistible to get on with The Greening of Eli.

                      Because of Manning's unique pedigree, the only thing Coughlin has to fear is fear itself. If Warner doesn't quickly find the magic wand he brought with him over the first month of the season, there would be no better way to give his team a spark. For all the talk about Komeback Kurt, remember that he has thrown only five TD passes for the season.

                      Coughlin admitted he considered yanking Warner in the second half, but opted to give Komeback Kurt a chance to redeem himself. But with 1:56 left, from his own 40 following an onsides kick recovery, Warner was sacked on successive plays and a fourth-and-20 prayer for Jeremy Shockey had no chance.


                      Coughlin, too smart to leave Warner twisting in the wind and ignite a tabloid feeding frenzy, made it clear that Warner will start next week. But he'd be wise to start giving Manning reps with the first team immediately.

                      The word from Eager Eli: I'm ready.

                      "I get more comfortable every week," Eager Eli said. "If I were to get in there, I could run the offense."

                      What makes you think you're ready?

                      "Just being mentally prepared. That's the only thing I have to base it on."

                      No one, however, knows better than Eager Eli — son of Archie, brother of Peyton — that it would be anathema were he to lobby for the ball.

                      So meet Diplomatic Eli.

                      "Right now he puts the team in the best position to win. You gotta stick with your guy."

                      And: "He's a veteran and been around and has won a lot of games. That's football. You can't win every game, you can't play perfect every game."

                      And: "You never want to create a controversy or a problem between your teammates and especially another quarterback. You gotta...
                      -11-08-2004, 12:12 PM
                    • Guest's Avatar
                      QB Kurt Warner is set to leave the Giants and become a starter for another NFL team.
                      by Guest
                      December 29, 2004

                      EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. – Kurt Warner believes he can and will be a starting quarterback in the NFL.



                      QB Kurt Warner is set to leave the Giants and become a starter for another NFL team.
                      Eli Manning is the Giants’ starter. Therefore, the Giants’ Sunday night season finale against the Dallas Cowboys could well be Warner’s final game in a Giants uniform.

                      “Very possibly,” Warner said today. “I think everybody would foresee that being the case. Who knows what’s going to happen? You never know what the future has in store and what could transpire. But I think that’s everybody’s thought process right now.

                      “I want to be somewhere starting next year. They know it’s not here with the New York Giants. And they understand my point of view 100 percent.”

                      Warner, who was signed as a free agent on June 2 after a record-breaking six-year run with the St. Louis Rams, started the first nine games of the season. The Giants were 5-4 in those games and Warner completed 62.8 percent of his passes (174 of 277) for 2,054 yards, six touchdowns and four interceptions. Warner’s quarterback rating of 86.5 still ranks seventh in the NFC.

                      After a 17-14 loss in Arizona on November 14, coach Tom Coughlin named Manning the new starting quarterback. The first pick in this year’s NFL Draft – and a player the Giants obtained in a trade of draft choices, including this year’s first round pick -- Manning was the quarterback of the future. The only question was when that future would arrive.

                      Since it did, Warner has played just once in relief, an appearance in a hopelessly lost cause in the fourth quarter of a 23-point defeat in Baltimore, where he led the Giants to their only offensive touchdown.

                      Throughout what could have been a difficult or uncomfortable position, Warner has carried himself with dignity and grace. He has helped Manning whenever possible. Warner has publicly advocated that Coughlin stick with Manning, even when the youngster struggled, and it seemed he might have a shot to play again. And Warner has never hidden from the media. Today he entered the locker room and said, “Does anybody need me?”

                      While Warner is an exceptional gentleman, he is also an intense competitor. It is that fire that helped him win two NFL Most Valuable Player awards and twice lead the Rams to the Super Bowl, including a victory five years ago. At 33, Warner insists he has plenty of good football left in him, a notion that was cemented in his own mind by his play early this season.

                      “I’m not going to be content, right now in my career, where I am and what I believe I can do, being a backup next year,” he said. “It’s just the bottom line. It’s nothing against the New York Giants, it’s nothing against the situation, the coaches, the organization. I love my year here. But I’m not content being a backup. I think...
                      -12-29-2004, 06:57 PM
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