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How the "Warner Bashers" Really Feel

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  • How the "Warner Bashers" Really Feel

    I've seen the terms "Warner Bashers" and "Warner Haters" thrown around quite a bit on these boards. The truth is, though, I have never come accross a Ram fan who seeks to "bash" Warner or who "hates" Warner.

    Rather, what most of us who have been assigned with this label do "bash" and do "hate" is the neverending, mind-boggling, bordering on psychotic, cult-hero worship, whining that some fans continue to engage in over Kurt Warner's departure.

    So, to avoid any confusion in the future, here is how I feel and, I believe, how most of the "Warner Bashers" feel about the subject.

    1. Kurt Warner will always have a special place in the hearts of Ram fans. His play from 1999-2001 was an integral part of the Rams' success over that span, as well as the Super Bowl win.

    2. While we were disappointed to see him decline in 2002 and lose his job in 2003, we disagree with those who believe that the team made an error in transitioning to Marc Bulger. Although Kurt demonstrated this year that he still can play, at this point, we believe Marc Bulger is the right choice for the team.

    3. We do not completely agree with the "Martz as villain viewpoint" with respect to Kurt Warner. While Martz did send mixed signals and seemed to contradict his own statements regarding his intentions during 2002-03, Warner also played a role in his own departure by making statements that alienated him from the team, allowing his wife to do so as well, and being less than forthcoming (or, alternatively, deluding himself) regarding his physical condition at times. It was a bad situation all around, and needed to end.

    4. Some of us believe now that Martz should be replaced. That does not, however, mean that we believe that has anything whatsoever to do with Kurt Warner.

    Like it or not, that is how we feel.

    And one final thing which needs to be addressed:

    5. Its time to move on. Kurt has been gone for a full season, and he's not coming back. He is not relevant to discussions about the current team any more than the 1,000,000,000 other "what ifs" that could be posed. As a result, we find it annoying when people try to inject his name into every conversation, regardless of the subject matter.

    So, that's it. That's how we feel. If you want to call us "Warner Bashers," go ahead. Some people have no regard for the truth.

  • #2
    Re: How the "Warner Bashers" Really Feel


    I agree with you except for one thing.

    it is relevant to mention Warner when making points on why you think Martz has hurt this team. Warner will always be linked to Martz in that way, and therefore linked to the current Rams as long as Martz is around.

    it is relevant to bring up this point when mentioning Martz' handling of players (which is a major weakness of his ).

    other than that, I agree with your post.


    • #3
      Re: How the "Warner Bashers" Really Feel

      If somebody wants to assert that Martz's handling of the Warner situation is one of many examples of a deficiency that warrants his dismissal, that's fine. Some, though, make it all about Warner.


      • #4
        Re: How the "Warner Bashers" Really Feel

        Well, you may speak for all the so called "Warner Bashers", but I will only speak for myself, and not all the "Warnerites".

        I have never called anyone a Basher, or Hater. I like Marc Bulger, and to use your Martz percentage analogy, I was 75% to 25% on the Warner trade, and appreciate Marc Bulgers' talent. You are entitled to your opinion that this was the right decision.

        But it is inevitable to wonder, now that Martz is in the spotlight for

        A: having a losing season, or .500 at best
        B: having outsiders begin to see the paranoia that has driven so many of his decisions in the past, that only most of us that read this day to day stuff have been privy too...

        makes me wonder again why the hell we got rid of the best thing that ever happened to this team. Martz if freekin insane. He probably thought KW was a virus.

        Yet, it has nothing to do with Marc Bulger.

        And after next week, unless the Rams get lucky, "what if" is all we'll have.


        • #5
          Re: How the "Warner Bashers" Really Feel

          Marc Bulger has a passer rating of 91.5, lead the league in passing yards until he was injured, and has played better than the current version of Kurt Warner.

          Despite these undeniable facts, you (and others) continue to try to attribute the Rams' lack of success to Bulger. That's just not logical.

          If you don't know the difference between coincidence and causation, I suggest you familiarize yourself with these concepts. Otherwise, you simply appear to be trying to cram the facts (which simply don't fit) into your predetermined conclusion.


          • #6
            Re: How the "Warner Bashers" Really Feel

            My reply had nothing to do with Marc Bulger, nor do I attribute the Rams lack of success to him. He is one of the few bright spots this year.

            However, to that point, I have mentioned that to prove himself, he really needed to throw more TD's this year, and he really hasn't done that. And to those who wanted to have a "bulger is great" party, I didn't think he was spectacular, but has been efficient.


            • #7
              Re: How the "Warner Bashers" Really Feel

              5. Its time to move on. Kurt has been gone for a full season, and he's not coming back.

              And we know this how AV??? I have 2 words for you, "Chris Chandler", you just never ever know!!!! hehehe, sorry, couldn't resist being the Warnerite that I am!!! :tongue:


              • #8
                Re: How the "Warner Bashers" Really Feel

                5. Its time to move on. Kurt has been gone for a full season, and he's not coming back.
                Let's not show our crystal balls, here. Never say never, and all that. Just as I would have predicted Warner would never leave the Rams, I don't think anything's out of the realm of possibility when it comes to player movement.

                Unlikely? Improbable? Yeah, right? All are accurate but none are "never".


                • #9
                  Re: How the "Warner Bashers" Really Feel

                  If Warner is ever a Ram again, I'll change my username to SexyBrenda.


                  • #10
                    Re: How the "Warner Bashers" Really Feel

                    I'm not into bashing Brenda so I'd prefer something like "AvengerWrong". You can't have your cake and eat it too.


                    Related Topics


                    • txramsfan
                      Rabid's Rants on Warner
                      by txramsfan
                      I just read the Rabid's Rants this week, and do agree with him to a certain extent. 18 INT's for any QB is high, extremely high. However, certain circumstances have been the cause for some of these.

                      1. Warner's thumb. It still hasn't been right since he hurt it. The deep ball is MIA really this year, but I believe Martz is as close to Woody Hayes as Bill Clinton is to George W. Completely different individuals.

                      2. Martz's play calling. MM abandonded the run in early games this year way to quickly, i.e. NO and TB at home. Anytime you come out slinging 15 or so pass plays to start the game, conventional thinking on INT's is out the window.

                      3. Tipped passes. How many of these INT's have come from passes that the WR's have let go through their hands and right into the deep corners? At least 4 I can think of.

                      One thing noticeable recently about the change in Warner is MM's prodding for Warner to move a little more. I watched the Fox Sports Special on Warner and he moved quite a bit in the Arena League. He wasn't Flutie, but he wasn't Jim Hart either.

                      I think Martz is addressing the Warner situation because no one else was banging the drum for Warner. Everyone was talking Favre, K. Stewart, or Garcia, but Warner just kept winning. Shoot, he has directed the Rams to a 12-2 record and perfect on the road.

                      I think the INT's can be reduced by both Warner throwing the ball away when nothing is there instead of trying to thread the needle everytime. Also, we have seen an increase in the running game lately, causing D's to play us closer. Both Warner and Martz can be blamed for the INT's, but I don't think he wants to grab Warners facemask and shake it anytime soon.
                      -12-29-2001, 11:32 AM
                    • RamWraith
                      Warner says it best
                      by RamWraith
                      now can we also follow the great ones lead???

                      Warner also said he leaves with no ill will.

                      "I'm indebted to the Rams," he said. "They're the one and only team to give me an opportunity, and to be in the position I'm in now, I have no animosity at all.

                      "I'll be forever grateful. I leave there with a lot of strong feelings, and that won't diminish."

                      In fact, Warner is not leaving the city yet. His stay in New York could be only one year as mentor for Eli Manning, so he'll continue to live in St. Louis until he finds a longterm football home elsewhere.

                      Warner also said half of his charitable foundation, "First Things First," will remain in St. Louis.
                      -06-03-2004, 04:35 PM
                    • HornIt
                      Balzer: Some Parts on Warner Story Not Generally Known
                      by HornIt
                      Some Parts on Warner Story Not Generally Known
                      By Howard Balzer Tuesday, January 27, 2009

                      The improbable tale of the guy who went from a bagger in a grocery store to Super Bowl MVP, disappeared from view and reemerged in the Super Bowl again, has its roots in the confidence of former Rams coach Dick Vermeil, who overruled his offensive coordinator to keep Warner on the roster in 1998.

                      It is one of the rarely told stories of how Warner even earned a job in Vermeil's second season as the Rams' coach.

                      Vermeil was hired by the Rams in 1997, and brought Jerry Rhome with him as offensive coordinator. As most coaches do, they have players they like to bring with them to new stops on the coaching trail. So it was that Rhome suggested the Rams sign lefthanded quarterback Will Furrer to compete for the No. 3 job on the roster.

                      Furrer played well in a pre-season game against Dallas, and beat out Jamie Martin for the job. It's interesting to note that Martin was still in the league in 2008, while Furrer has been long gone.

                      The following year is where this story grows intriguing. Rhome wasn't even present for a December tryout in 1997 for Warner, who had been excelling for the Arena Football League's Iowa Barnstormers.

                      Al Lugenbill, head coach of the Amsterdam Admirals in the NFL's Europe league, wanted Warner for his team. But he needed an NFL team to sign him and allocate him. Other teams had varying degrees of interest, but it was the Rams that signed him a few days after Christmas because personnel director Charley Armey liked what he had seen.

                      Warner went overseas and won the job in a close competition with Jake Delhomme, then with the New Orleans Saints. When he arrived for Rams training camp in July, he was competing with ... drum roll, please, ... Will Furrer. Warner showed some moxie and Vermeil recalled liking what he had seen. But there was the Rhome factor to overcome.

                      As camp ended, Rhome pushed for Furrer to get the job again. But Vermeil wasn't convinced this time. He had the backing of other assistants, including Mike White, and the choice was made to cut Furrer and keep Warner.

                      Where would Warner would be today had that decision not been made? No one can really say. But it seems obvious Warner wouldn't be where is today.

                      The Rams were a bad football team in 1998. They were 4-12, and there were those that believed the game had passed Vermeil by. Because of injuries to Tony Banks and Steve Bono, Warner played in the season finale against San Francisco and was a non-descript 4-for-11 for 39 yards.

                      Immediately after the season ended, Rhome was fired and Mike Martz was hired as offensive coordinator. So little did Martz know of Warner that when the quarterback went to Martz's office to introduce himself,...
                      -01-27-2009, 07:50 PM
                    • RamDez
                      Kurt Warner – A Fond Farewell To A Great Man
                      by RamDez
                      Kurt Warner – A Fond Farewell To A Great Man
                      By Barry Waller
                      June 3rd, 2004

                      There are times when covering an NFL team that even the biggest fan
                      might find to be more work than enjoyment. Dealing with professional athletes
                      is a real pain at times, and trying to give fans the true story when so many rumors have sent them into so many directions is even worse. While there are times that the words fly out of a writer’s mind onto the pages he is composing, there are others when sitting down and rehashing the facts to tell a tale is almost excruciating. If I am doing a column twenty years from now, I probably won’t have had to labor over a story as much as this one.

                      Oh, sure, nobody died, no beloved sports figure met his maker far too young on the day after Memorial Day, which is the toughest stuff to cover from a personal side; but in a lot of ways, it seems like something truly died for Ramsnation when the team released Kurt Warner. When the long predicted move was made official this past Wednesday however, there was no outcry from Rams fans, no wail of sorrow at a tragic event. Not surprisingly, Warner himself left town with the same class and good feelings that are his trademark.

                      Like a parent, spouse, or child who has seen a loved one slowly slip away due to illness, those of us who will never forget what #13 meant to a team and a city have little emotion left to give as the irreversible end finally came. They have gone through the same predictable emotions of anger, denial, bargaining, and depression, then a numb acceptance of our fate, as cancer victims, ever since Kurt Warner began showing he was human after all. Ironically, the most incredible and improbable feel good story in NFL history involved a man who embodies everything decent about the human animal, despite his immortal like play when at his best.

                      As the negative stories and feelings about Warner as the Rams quarterback appeared, they acted upon his legacy like tumors on bodily organs, some spreading and mutating to other areas. We may never know how the negative vibes played a part in what so quickly turned a two time MVP passer into a backup. If Warner shines with the Giants, another team needing the kind of miracle that Warner gave Rams fans and the world in 1999, maybe it will provide a bit of a clue.

                      I was at Warner’s last start, in the Meadowlands against those same Giants, and as painful as it was having to suffer with him on that day, and suffer the slings and arrows of Giants fans during and following the game, I feel blessed that I got to see as much as I could of Kurt Warner in person. It was that personal contact over the past six seasons that makes his inexplicable fall from grace so distressing.

                      In the NFL, everyone knows the salary cap, and other factors makes it nearly impossible to keep players for entire careers, something Rams fans have had to...
                      -06-06-2004, 03:38 AM
                    • RamWraith
                      Warner article--sure to drum up a debate. Interesting read
                      by RamWraith
                      Just like with Rams and Giants, Warner out to prove critics wrong
                      By Darren Urban, Tribune

                      The resumé is too long for the story to begin where it once did. Kurt Warner knows that.
                      His past is decorated with two MVP awards, three Pro Bowls, two Super Bowl appearances and a St. Louis fan base that still follows him two stops later.

                      Warner is no longer the nobody who took over at quarterback for the Rams in 1999, but in some ways, he is starting over.

                      He has more doubters than believers, which is where he stood that day St. Louis coach Dick Vermeil made him the starter after Trent Green's season-ending knee injury almost six years ago.

                      And like his Rams back then, his new team in Arizona carries few expectations.

                      "There are a lot of people out there that don't think I can still play, and there's a lot of people out there that don't think this team has a chance to do anything," Warner said. The statistics haven't been gaudy for three years, and for Warner, his history has become his burden. But it is also his proof.

                      "There has never been a story like Kurt Warner's," Cardinals coach Dennis Green said. "It's a result of him believing in himself." Warner still believes. He believes that winning football, if not video game-like stats, remains in him.

                      He believes politics dragged him out of the lineup with both the Rams and the New York Giants. He believes he will be reborn as an NFL starter with the Cardinals this season. And he believes he has lived this scenario before. "It's kind of my story, the underdog story, no chance to have success," Warner said. "It's kind of like what I stepped into in St. Louis.

                      "I get a chance to rewrite my story, and I get a chance to hopefully rewrite the story of the Arizona Cardinals."

                      FROM HERO TO HUMBLED

                      The first version of Warner's story came straight from Hollywood.

                      He was nowhere, bagging groceries at one point after college, eventually thinking a successful arena football career in his native Iowa was as far as the dream might go. Then, in one stunning two-year period, he rose from Iowa Barnstormer to St. Louis Ram as ringleader of the "Greatest Show on Turf."

                      "St. Louis football was dog meat for so long," longtime St. Louis Post-Dispatch columnist Bernie Miklasz said. "Then this mythical character out of a W.P. Kinsella novel walks out of the Iowa cornfields."

                      He won a Super Bowl that first season as a starter. He set team records. He was one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. And he was a good person, friendly almost to a fault, a sports hero fans could feel good about embracing.

                      Warner was going to be a Ram forever.

                      That he isn't now, "flabbergasts me a little bit," Warner
                      -05-14-2005, 06:25 AM