Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

    In an article titled "As the quarterback turns," Peter King made a point about a Warner/Kitna comparison that I think provides a good perspective on Marc Bulger. Follow me here.

    King is asked, "Do you think Eli Manning will sit on the bench with the Giants like last year's No. 1 overall pick, Carson Palmer, did with the Bengals in 2003?"

    And in response, he says, "If Kurt Warner plays as well as Jon Kitna did last year in Cincinnati, Warner could be the quarterback for 16 weeks. People forget that Kitna was an excellent QB last year. He had better numbers across the board than Tom Brady did. When people look at Kitna, they look at his weaknesses. He's not real good throwing the ball 35 yards down the field. He's not consistently accurate at that distance. There aren't a lot of guys in the NFL who are. If that were a minimal requirement for NFL quarterbacks, than Donovan McNabb would be a second-stringer. In New York, it's all dependent on whether Warner is going to be the quarterback he was a few years ago, or if he's going to be the injured, unconfident, very marginal backup quarterback.

    I remember on another forum, there was a fairly long debate about how Marc needed to get better with his deep ball. Howard and Barry both seemed to respond by saying the deep ball wasn't as important as some would have you believe, and it sounds as if Peter King is making the same point here in that there aren't a tremendous number of QBs who are great at it, and QBs can still be effective without it.

    Go with this where you will, but when I saw this article and this perspective from an SI writer, I thought it would be worthwhile to post.

  • #2
    Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

    I'm not so worried about Bulger's long ball as it is only used maybe once or twice a game. I would like to see him get better on first and second down though.

    To me, that's much more important.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

      I think the system has a lot to do with what is needed from a quarterback. Much has been made about the deep ball not being important, which is fine if you don't plan on making that a part of an offensive scheme.

      IMO, Mike Martz likes the deep ball and likes to use it in certain situations to open things up, stretch the field and make quick strikes. If he plans to tone things down, go with a more ball-control oriented approach and depend on the defense to help keep games in check, there is no need to worry about Bulger's deep throw accuracy.

      On the other hand, if Martz is still enamored with the deep game, Bulger needs to be able to execute it or there will be no threat and opposing defenses won't respect it, creating an environment for turnovers. Something that Bulger needs to improve on.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

        Yes, it's all Bulger's fault, isn't it Mike? :bored:

        It's amazing how some people will make every excuse imaginable when Warner falters, but in Marc's case, it's all on his shoulders.

        To say defenses don't respect the deep pass when facing Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, and the NFC's leading passer in terms of total yards seems rather ridiculous, does it not? I think it's because of their respect for the deep ball that's made it harder to succeed with.

        I think that it'd be much easier to hit those passes when defenses aren't allowed to sit back there in coverage. Why are they allowed to do that? Because our running game isn't as effective as it used to be. If we can force defenders to devote additional personnel to run support, we should be able to open up more opportunities in the air.

        Yes, Bulger needs to make an attempt here or there, but also keep in mind that Manning threw only five passes over 40 yards last season. Did defenses thus not respect Manning's arm? I highly doubt it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

          The Martz offense has never revolved around the deep ball. Rather, its "bread and butter" is the 15-20 yard crossing pattern. Bulger throws that pass very effectively.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

            Yes, it's all Bulger's fault, isn't it Mike?
            I'm at a loss here, what did I say was Bulger's fault?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

              Originally posted by r8rh8rmike
              On the other hand, if Martz is still enamored with the deep game, Bulger needs to be able to execute it or there will be no threat and opposing defenses won't respect it, creating an environment for turnovers. Something that Bulger needs to improve on.
              Seems to imply that if Martz wants to use the deep ball, it's Marc that needs to get better at it. Nevermind that he looked pretty good with deep passes in 2002. Nevermind that the defense doesn't need to devote extra personnel to run support since our running game is so poor, thus allowing them to put extra men in coverage and take away options through the air. Nevermind that there was so much defensive holding and illegal contact going on last season that the league finally decided to do something about it coming into this year. You seem to be putting the entire weight of our deep pass problems on Marc's shoulders rather than looking at other alternative reasons as to why we've had problems with the deep pass. It's a rather tiring approach, having to defend a young QB against fans who at times go out of their way to try and emphasize his problems.

              I guess it's now too much to expect the other points of my post to be addressed. I would hope that's not the case.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

                It's pretty common knowledge that Marc Bulger is not overly effective when it comes to the deep ball. If he's not, he's not. If the offense needs to be altered to account for his shortcomings, so be it. As long as we score points and keep turnovers to a minimum, I'm OK with Bulger's inability to throw the ball deep. Believe it or not, I have faith that Bulger can be effective if used the right way. That depends on Martz.

                And yes, I was implying that if Martz want's to use the deep ball, it is Marc that needs to get better at it. That or don't use it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

                  He does need to get better mike....I'll give you that one. I do believe Curtis being healthy will extremely help the deep ball also. The lack of a running game did hurt, but the lack of a speedy 3 WR hurt more in my opinion.

                  That being said, he does need to improve on that. Best thing about this? He knows it and has been working on it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

                    Originally posted by r8rh8rmike
                    It's pretty common knowledge that Marc Bulger is not overly effective when it comes to the deep ball. If he's not, he's not. If the offense needs to be altered to account for his shortcomings, so be it. As long as we score points and keep turnovers to a minimum, I'm OK with Bulger's inability to throw the ball deep. Believe it or not, I have faith that Bulger can be effective if used the right way. That depends on Martz.

                    And yes, I was implying that if Martz want's to use the deep ball, it is Marc that needs to get better at it. That or don't use it.
                    It's common knowledge that Bulger wasn't effective last season with the deep ball, but the fact that you fail to acknowledge alternate reasons as to why that might be seems to be rather ridiculous and narrow minded. Instead, you put it all on Marc's shoulders. You said it yourself: "Bulger's inability," "his shortcomings," etc etc.

                    So like I said, it's all Bulger's fault, right? :bored:

                    It's amazing the lengths some people will go to bash this guy, unwilling to even consider for a second that something isn't his fault. I'm not saying that he's performing perfectly, but what I'm trying to get at is that perhaps, in a game where 21 other guys are on the field, maybe Bulger isn't the only one to blame for this not being as effective as it could be. I don't think that's a ridiculous or baseless claim to make.
                    Last edited by Nick; -06-18-2004, 12:55 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

                      Did it ever cross the mind of those who can't get over Warner's departure that those of us who have been labeled "Bulgerites" are, in fact, aware of his faults and his mistakes, do not seek to gloss over them, but nonetheless think he is the best man available for the job of the Rams' QB?
                      Nick, you saw this right?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

                        Originally posted by r8rh8rmike
                        Nick, you saw this right?
                        No, what thread is it in?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

                          It's in the infamous "Rams’ Martz knew Bulger would be special" thread, posted by none other than our friend AvengerRam. Thought it might be relevant in our discussion.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

                            Originally posted by r8rh8rmike
                            It's in the infamous "Rams’ Martz knew Bulger would be special" thread, posted by none other than our friend AvengerRam. Thought it might be relevant in our discussion.
                            How is it relevant?

                            In the quote, Avenger's asking the Warner loyalists if they ever thought that maybe we're aware of Marc's faults and aren't trying to ignore them but feel he's the best guy regardless. The statement says we're aware of the problems but still put our faith behind him because we feel he offers the best chance for the team to win.

                            So no, I can't say I'm seeing how that's related to you ignoring other key factors that could have contributed to problems with the deep ball and instead place all the blame on Marc's shoulders.

                            It sounds as if you think quoting this post from another thread is going to bring about some sort of revelation in the current discussion. I can't say I'm seeing it... maybe you could elaborate?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: An interesting tidbit from a Peter King article (Bulger related)

                              It seems as though you are glossing over his faults, making excuses for him when it's really not that big a deal. So he can't effectively throw the deep ball, so what. He doesn't quite have the touch, doesn't quite have the ability to make it a threat, does not have the timing down, just accept it.

                              I don't think you will find many in this forum that would make the case that Bulger is going to cause much concern to opposing defenses when it comes to the deep game. As Tx stated earlier, it's more important that he get better on first and second down. As Av stated, he is effective at the intermediate game, so if he can't show the apptitude for going deep, work with his strengths.

                              Your defense of Bulger is admirable. My intent was not to slam him, but put his limitations in perspective and make the point that as long as Martz uses him the right way, the deep ball problems should not be an issue.

                              Comment

                              Related Topics

                              Collapse

                              • ramsbruce
                                Why Teams Should Avoid High Priced Coaches (Peter King MMQB Article)
                                by ramsbruce
                                Interesting take by Peter King on hiring high priced coaches.

                                http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...k14/index.html...
                                -12-12-2007, 05:35 PM
                              • TekeRam
                                Peter King on Bulger
                                by TekeRam
                                Hear that? Top 12! I'm actually amazed to see such high praise from a national writer.

                                Now the next step is just protecting the man!...
                                -08-17-2009, 02:06 PM
                              • RamWraith
                                What Peter King said on Warner---DAMN!!
                                by RamWraith
                                "I think, and this is a Giant uh-oh, that some Big Blue observers are saying Jesse Palmer has thrown the ball better than Kurt Warner has in June practices."
                                -06-22-2004, 02:13 PM
                              • ramsbruce
                                From Peter King's MMQB (About Bulger)
                                by ramsbruce
                                "10 Things I Think" By Peter King from CNNSI

                                #2. I think the Rams' situation had to be especially awful for Marc Bulger to speak up like he did after the loss to Arizona. Bulger is one of those conscience-of-the-team types, respected in every corner of the locker room. "I care,'' he said Sunday, "but I know there are some guys in this locker room who don't care. It's more than one guy.'' I hear two of the non-carers are center Richie Incognito and laissez-faire tackle Alex Barron. Talk about a free-fall. The Rams have lost six of seven
                                -12-04-2006, 12:11 PM
                              • RamDez
                                Bulger is QB of choice in St. Louis
                                by RamDez
                                Bulger is QB of choice in St. Louis
                                Low-key personality belies determination to lead Rams
                                COMMENTARY
                                By Dan O'Neill
                                NBCSports.com contributor
                                Aug. 10, 2004

                                He is a Marc-ed man now. The St. Louis Rams, at least those grazing on the offensive side of the ball, officially will come under his care and direction this winter. Lock, stock, and Bulger.

                                “I really don’t think things have changed,” Marc Bulger said. “It is challenging sometimes; you get opportunities that you want to do. But you have to stick to who you are and what will make you happy.”

                                The Rams have done their part to make Bulger happy. In April, coach Mike Martz declared Bulger would be his starting quarterback this season. Shortly thereafter, the organization made it crystal clear, giving Bulger a four-year, $19.1 million contract and releasing former league MVP Kurt Warner. Warner resides in New York now, trying turn the pumpkin back into a coach, keeping the seat warm while The Apprentice, Eli Manning, gets his feet wet.

                                Undisputed No. 1 this season
                                For the first time since he came off the bench and played surprisingly well for an injured Warner in 2002, Bulger will enter a season as the Rams’ undisputed heavyweight quarterback, no controversy, no questions asked. He will call his signals without Warner — literally and figuratively — looking over his shoulder. Or as offensive lineman Andy McCollum put it: “We’re here to protect Marc. He’s the man now.”

                                In turn, “the man” has looked the part. Bulger is throwing short, intermediate, and long passes with precision and purpose, he is making the right reads, choosing the right receivers. He threw for an NFC-leading 3,845 yards and completed 63 percent of his passes last season. He was named the Pro Bowl MVP when the season was over. All that was before he officially had the job. Now that he is entitled, he is infuego.

                                “I’ve very pleased with him,” Martz said. “He’s been consistently very good. He is markedly improved from a year ago, no question about it, in terms of just getting the speed of seeing things and getting the ball to the right guy.”

                                Bulger will tell you the presence of Warner wasn't negative. At 27 years of age, Bulger is modest and respectful, qualities that endear him to his teammates. He insists he appreciated Warner, tried to emulate him, learn from him, lean on him. But the absence of Warner World should make for a significantly less stressful environment. The new second-in-command at the quarterback position in St. Louis is 38-year old Chris Chandler, an experienced hand who has no delusions at this stage of his career. Chandler won't be standing on the sideline with a helmet in hand and a hankering to prove he can still pilot the ship. He is a walking insurance policy, and the deductible will only be exceeded on an emergency basis.

                                Outside distractions avoided
                                There is no media...
                                -08-10-2004, 03:39 PM
                              Working...
                              X