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Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

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  • Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

    This topic has been bounced around a bit on various threads but to my knowledge, has not been addressed directly by the group during the off season as a stand alone topic. I bring this up in part in the context of the recent threat comparing the great rams receiving tandems of all time.

    I admit that i can not watch any replays from the carolina game. within 45 seconds of the end of the game i ripped up and threw into the garbage my vcr tape of the game and refused to watch the highlights. Far too depressing.

    However, for what it is worth and out of the dark part of my memory, here is what i remember. The play was set up beautifully. It was a perfect call by martz and a nice enough play fake by bulger. I thought Holt was about as open as a receiver ever gets without the db actually falling down. I thought he had 2 to 3 steps. The ball was clearly not on target. i thought Holt had it and was going in for a TD. I really thought he should have had it, even if he had to turn around and slow up just to catch the ball rather than catch it on the dead run to try and carry it in for the td.

    At first, i thought he blew an easy catch, at least a catch that should be a catch that an all pro makes under those game conditions. I remember seeing the replay in the heat of the moment and thinking to myself that the cactch was harder than i first thought and that the throw was really lousy and that he should have made sure he caught it, given the game situation, without trying to make the perfect play by running it in.

    Call me biased, but i still think isaac bruce makes that catch, even if he doesnt run it in.

    Please give me your thoughts on the play. Should Holt have made the catch. Should he have slowed down and turned to be sure he caught it rather than trying to run it in?

    Obviously, that was a critical play in the game. No way to know if it changes the result, but many of us can be very harsh regarding martz' play calling. You do have to give him credit when he deserves it, and you have to admit that was a perfect call at a critical time and the execution just didnt get it done.

    This thread it about holt. I think it states the obvious that when bulger has a reciever open by 5 feet for an obvious td without a pass rush in his face with the game on the line he HAS to throw a much more accurate ball. if anyone feels differently on that, lets talk about that as well.

    Ramming speed to all

    Sign the Big Man

    general counsel

  • #2
    Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

    I think I'm thinking of a different play then, because the play I'm thinking of where Holt is way down field with a couple steps on his guy was on a pass that would have required Holt to stretch or even jump to make the catch, not slow down or turn around.

    My opinion on the play is that it wasn't a really accurate pass, but I think it was catchable. For as much as people complain about Bulger's inability to throw the long ball, this one wasn't totally off target. In fact, I think Holt even had his fingers on it. For a guy who named himself "Big Game," Torry should have come up with that grab, especially if you're close enough to actually touch the ball.

    The playoffs are about playing your best, your hardest, and doing what it takes to win the game. I think this was a catchable ball, and Holt gave up once he saw this wasn't going to be an over-the-shoulder special delivery grab.

    I agree GC, I think Isaac Bruce makes that catch. For as much as Torry Holt has surpassed Bruce on the Rams as the primary receiver, I think Isaac would have pulled in that ball and would have given the Rams a lot of momentum. I know a lot of times the Rams receivers prefer not to take the huge hit if they can avoid it, but I think this is one instance where you HAVE to sacrifice the body and do what it takes to bring in that pass.

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    • #3
      Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

      Nick, maybe turn around and make the catch was not the best description. Maybe what i should have said was that he should have laid out and dove if he had to to make sure he actually caught the ball first, before worry about running it in. As i tried to express, i only saw it once, in the heat of the moment during the game. As an aside, when he dropped it, i fell to the ground and began pounding my fist into the floor screaming. My two year old daughter began to cry hysterically. I had to stop and rally her for the rest of the fourth quarter- A Ram never gives up!

      When I was a very young kid, my dad taught me something about watching nfl recievers, not necessarily to be taken literally, but he is what he said. "If they can get their hands on it, they should be able to catch it."

      As you say Nick, "Big Game" means playing your best in the big games. Bruce and Faulk brought their A games against carolina. I am not saying Holt had a lousy game, but he had a chance to make a superstar play with the game on the line and he didnt get it done.

      ramming speed to all

      sign the big man

      general counsel

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

        Geez gc, you ripped up the tape and threw it in the trash....man I was laughing when I read that....LOL

        Anyways, I am not sure that Holt, or Bruce for that matter, could have caught that ball. To be fair, I will watch it again, since I still have my tape, but just off the top of my head I think he made a very good attempt at catching that pass. I have also heard it before, but I'm not sure I'm sold on the fact, that if a receiver can get a hand on a ball then he should be able to catch it. To me, it depends on the circumstances and I think it is easier said than done in many cases.
        Curly ~ Horns

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        • #5
          Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

          Ferter, i will defer to your analysis on this after you go back and watch the tape since i dont have the heart to do it myself. Please post once you have had a chance to do so. If in the clear light of day, without the emotion of the moment, you think that it was an "uncatchable" ball, i will try to alter the indelible memory searing into my brain that holt didnt make the play. Again, i think we all agree he was wide open and the throw could have been a lot better.

          general counsel

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

            Originally posted by Ferter
            To me, it depends on the circumstances and I think it is easier said than done in many cases.
            It is easier said than done, but as a professional, that's the kind of catch you have to make. When you're in the playoffs, you have to come up with that grab. That was probably one of the better deep passes Holt was going to see on that route. Are we saying that all deep balls have to be right over the shoulder for our guys to make the catch? I really hope not.

            While you're examining the tape, if you could, take a look at what yard line Bulger was on when he made the throw and how deep of a pass it was. I'm kinda curious. Thanks!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

              Hey guys, after further review....

              Holt should definately have caught that ball.

              Actually, he had the thing. He snagged it out of the air with one hand and pulled it into his chest area, momentarily getting two hands on it and then bobbles it away. He had his man beat by five to seven yards and if he hangs on it should be an easy six. I don't see him break stride, while trying to judge the ball, as it was thrown with a fairly high trajectory. He may slighty adjust his running speed, if so, it is not highly detectable in full speed replay and not at all noticeable in slow mo. He appears to be going full speed with minimal adjustments if any. The ball is slightly overthrown, but Holt appears to have the most trouble with judging the ball because it is at such a high trajectory. Regardless, he certainly should have caught that ball and like I said he actually pulled it in.

              Nick, Bulger was standing on his own 26 when he threw the pass and holt gets his hand on the ball at the panther 24. So the ball basically traveled 50 yards in the air without factoring in trajectory.
              Curly ~ Horns

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              • #8
                Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

                Thanks for the info, Ferter!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

                  Ferter, thanks for the review and clearing it up for me once and for all. I find it fascinating that even hard core fans such as ourselves can have different memories of such a critical play in a playoff game. It just shows you that in the heat of the moment, no one really thinks that clearly. Now, had we won, we all would have watched the highlights dozens of times and it would be been clear from the start. Bruce makes that catch.....

                  ramming speed to all

                  sign the big man

                  general counsel

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

                    Without a doubt Holt should have caught that pass.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

                      We all have different perspectives, but the ball was overthrown and it would have been a circus catch by Holt. If the ball was underthrown, it probably would have been caught as Holt was wide open. Reaching out with one hand, pulling it in at full speed after tracking a deep, arcing ball with a defender barreling down on you qualifies as an extremely difficult catch IMO. That pass completed for a touchdown would have been an enduring NFL highlight.

                      I agree that the play was a great call by Martz, executed by all to near perfection, just a half step off. No way can I blame Holt, and it's difficult to blame Bulger. Just one of those crushing bad twists of fate.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

                        Originally posted by r8rh8rmike
                        We all have different perspectives, but the ball was overthrown and it would have been a circus catch by Holt. If the ball was underthrown, it probably would have been caught as Holt was wide open. Reaching out with one hand, pulling it in at full speed after tracking a deep, arcing ball with a defender barreling down on you qualifies as an extremely difficult catch IMO. That pass completed for a touchdown would have been an enduring NFL highlight.

                        I agree that the play was a great call by Martz, executed by all to near perfection, just a half step off. No way can I blame Holt, and it's difficult to blame Bulger. Just one of those crushing bad twists of fate.
                        I was trying to think how to say my opinion, but Mike did a good job...
                        This space for rent...

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                        • #13
                          Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

                          I guess it is somewhat extreme to emphatically state that Holt should have caught that pass. Maybe it is best to refer to that pass as one that is catchable by an elite NFL WR. Grabbing a long ball out of the air with one hand and pulling it in at fullspeed is definately not the easiest of catches. However, it can be done and looking at the replay Holt was very close to doing just that.

                          ;)
                          Curly ~ Horns

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

                            i bet torry will catch the next one like that. man, when he missed that big catch i was shocked. its just another event that bounced the panthers way in that game.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Should Holt have caught the pass against Carolina?

                              Originally posted by r8rh8rmike
                              We all have different perspectives, but the ball was overthrown and it would have been a circus catch by Holt. If the ball was underthrown, it probably would have been caught as Holt was wide open. Reaching out with one hand, pulling it in at full speed after tracking a deep, arcing ball with a defender barreling down on you qualifies as an extremely difficult catch IMO. That pass completed for a touchdown would have been an enduring NFL highlight.
                              In one sentence, Holt "was wide open." In another, a defender is "barreling down" on him. Which is it? :confused:

                              Fifty yards in the air and it's close enough for Holt to get a hand on it and bring it in. Sounds like it was a fairly accurate pass to me over that distance. If the ball was underthrown, I don't think it would have been caught because we're talking about Holt slowing down and turning for the catch, giving the DB time to close in and make a play on the ball. Instead, the ball was delivered in front of Holt to ensure that he would be the only one around it since he had the DB beat. It wasn't right over his shoulder, but it was pretty darn close.

                              I'm fairly certain if you ask your QB to throw ten passes fifty yards deep, that throw by Bulger is probably one of the better passes you're going to get. Holt's supposedly one of the NFL's elite receivers. Great receivers make those kind of grabs.

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                              Related Topics

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                              • viper
                                Holt Came To Play Sunday!
                                by viper
                                Did anybody notice on Holt's first catch, that after catching the ball he made about 3 guys miss as he was doing everything he could to get get some yac? Whereas, normally he would automatically fall to the ground to avoid being hit. I think Torry took Martz's words to heart last week and decided there was more he could do. Too bad he went down, could have been fun to watch. I'll look forward to seeing him do that next week.

                                Did anybody see anyone else step up out of the norm? I'd have to give Coady kudo's as well.

                                Let's hope they keep it up!

                                Go Rams!!!
                                -11-15-2004, 08:41 PM
                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Did you see holt turn around on the underthrown bomb?
                                by Guest
                                Torry Holt turned around perfectly and slowed up to catch the underthrown deep ball by chandler. Just to incite a little controversy, that is the same move i wish he would have made in the carolina playoff game.

                                speaking of which, both the 52 yd field goals by Money were through with plenty of room to spare today. Of what we wouldnt have given for another two yards in the playoffs last year, or even some of Moneys booming kickoffs against the saints earlier this year.

                                sorry to beat the dead horse....

                                general counsel
                                -12-05-2004, 02:56 PM
                              • RamWraith
                                Big Game Headed for Another Big Season
                                by RamWraith
                                Thursday, December 8, 2005

                                By Nick Wagoner
                                Senior Writer




                                Player after player, receiver after receiver crosses into the end zone, setting off a display of celebrations with each player seemingly trying to outdo the other with a celebration more over the top than the one before it.

                                But Holt pays no mind to the creative jigs or not-so-creative spikes. He is focused on the task at hand, getting his weekly massage and taking care of his tools. By tools of course he means the legs that allow him to outrun almost any defensive back in the league and the hands that often times appear to have been manicured with Elmer’s Glue.

                                With so many of today’s NFL players focusing their celebrations on themselves, many times copping desperate pleas for attention with something so crazy or ridiculous that nobody can take them seriously, here lies Holt with no cares in the world aside from getting the tools shined and sharpened for another week of practice.

                                “I know Torry, I think really well after seven years,” coach Mike Martz said. “Torry talks about it with me sometimes. Torry is happy with who he is. He doesn’t need any notoriety. He loves to play. You’ve seen him in practice; he’s like a little kid running around here. He just loves to play. He doesn’t care about the attention, the notoriety, the commercials, or special spots on him or any of those things. Those are fine. That’s good. I think those are good for the National Football League. That’s not who Torry is, he could care less about that stuff.”

                                Me as in Team

                                Make no mistake, Holt loves a good celebration as much as the next guy, but the only use of the word me that Holt would ever use is when it’s in the form of the second and fourth letters of the word team.

                                On occasion you might see Holt work in an end zone dance (he’s been known to do the cabbage patch), but generally any celebrating he does comes only with the company of his teammates. Take the Bob ‘n’ Weave from the Greatest Show on Turf days for example or what is simply known as the “Jump” that he and his teammates do now.

                                Holt could easily use individual celebrations to pump his reputation like so many other receivers in the league have done, but that’s not who he is and that’s not what he is about.

                                “I’m here to be sure that I uphold my end of the bargain to this team of doing what I am supposed to do to continue to help this ball club win games,” Holt said. “I definitely have my individual stats and performance that I want to reach, but at the same time I want to help this ball club win games too.”

                                Therein lies the ultimate force that drives Holt. While other receivers go out looking to score touchdowns in bunches and gain yards by the bushel and complain when they don’t, Holt only truly cares about one statistic: wins.

                                Nobody knows better...
                                -12-08-2005, 03:35 PM
                              • RamWraith
                                Holt: Forgotten man?
                                by RamWraith
                                By Jim Thomas
                                ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
                                Wednesday, Sep. 10 2008
                                Torry Holt was simply trying to get a good look at the play. It turns out he
                                got too good of a look in the early going of the Rams' 38-3 loss Sunday in
                                Philadelphia.

                                "I was watching what was going on," Holt said. "I've done it several times, and
                                the play just happened so quick."

                                On the second play from scrimmage, Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb threw a
                                deep sideline pass to rookie DeSean Jackson. Jackson leaped for the ball over
                                Rams cornerback Tye Hill, and then raced downfield in front of the St. Louis
                                bench for a 47-yard completion.

                                Fifteen more yards were tacked onto the play because a member of referee Peter
                                Morelli's officiating crew ran into Holt near the Rams' bench.

                                "The ref backed up and I didn't get out of the way quick enough," Holt said.

                                Holt said he had no idea that the inadvertent contact would draw a penalty.

                                "I thought the flag was (for) something in the field of play," Holt said. "When
                                they said it was on me, I was like, 'Oh, wow.' I need to get in my rulebook a
                                little bit more."

                                Unfortunately for Holt and the Rams, that was the only time Holt was noticed
                                Sunday. The seven-time Pro Bowler, and the NFL's most productive receiver this
                                decade in terms of catches and yards, was limited to one catch for 9 yards.

                                "We had some times where we had some plays up that were going to me, but
                                coverage dictated where the ball went and things like that," Holt said. "Marc
                                (Bulger) wasn't going to force anything, and I wouldn't recommend that he force
                                anything."

                                Bulger threw to seven other receivers — from Drew Bennett to Keenan Burton to
                                Dan Kreider — before Holt had the first pass thrown his way, with 20 seconds to
                                go in the first half. Holt dropped the low throw, but the short pass was
                                well-covered and would have gone for only a couple of yards.

                                The only other time Holt had a ball thrown his way came on the opening drive of
                                the second half, when he caught it.

                                "They doubled him quite a bit," offensive coordinator Al Saunders said. "So you
                                try to dictate a couple of routes to him, and they doubled him over the top. We
                                had to throw the checkdowns underneath. But he'll get going. He's a guy that
                                he'll get his numbers when the year's over."

                                But he didn't Sunday. You have to go back 59 games, to a 2004 contest in Miami,
                                to find a game in which Holt was similarly uninvolved in the offense. He caught
                                one pass for 4 yards then in a 31-14 defeat.

                                For years, Holt benefited from the presence of Isaac Bruce on the other side of
                                ...
                                -09-10-2008, 04:39 AM
                              • general counsel
                                isaac holt
                                by general counsel
                                phil simms had two different isaac holt references last night. Ian eagle had one, but he corrected himself.

                                What a couple of maroons.

                                ramming speed to all

                                general counsel
                                -08-19-2007, 03:50 PM
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