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Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

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  • Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

    With minor renovations, Rams begin to build

    By Jim Thomas
    Of the Post-Dispatch
    07/29/2004

    MACOMB, Ill. - The foundation was laid a couple of months ago, during minicamps and the lighter practices known as OTAs, or organized team activity.

    But with Wednesday's start of training camp, veteran safety Aeneas Williams provided this construction update: "We're now putting in the 2-by-4s, and starting to build a sturdy house."

    Some of the outward swagger of past Rams teams is gone. But with a 61-27 record over the past five seasons - including four playoff berths, three division titles and two Super Bowl appearances - expectations remain high.

    "In my opinion, this is as good a team as I've been on in my career - in terms of talent," defensive captain Tyoka Jackson said. "Now, the experience level is not what it was in 2001 (the Rams' most recent Super Bowl squad). But talent-wise, no question it's there."

    By season's end, the Rams expect to build a mansion, not a shack. And coach Mike Martz already is tinkering with the blueprint. Most notable on Wednesday was the sight of Arlen Harris working almost exclusively at halfback.

    "We think that's what he is, really," Martz said.

    But what about those plans to switch Harris to fullback?

    "We want him to learn fullback, because ultimately during the season, we'd like to use him as such - with he and Marshall (Faulk) in the backfield, just as another alternative in various personnel groupings," Martz said. "And if you teach him (fullback), in the event that something would happen to Joey Goodspeed, we know that he can go in there and survive and do well. But first and foremost we kind of look at him as a halfback."

    This is true even though Harris reported at 226 pounds, about 15 pounds heavier than his playing weight as a rookie last season. An offseason of weight training and conditioning has made Harris faster, even in his bulked-up form.

    "He really got our attention because he's got some real live ability in terms of reading and cutting and breaking tackles and all those things," Martz said.

    The Rams also have moved defensive end Nick Burley to tight end.

    Are you f---ing kidding me. Building? Rebuilding? Rennovation? coach Mike Martz already is tinkering with the blueprint. Most notable on Wednesday was the sight of Arlen Harris working almost exclusively at halfback. He drafts a HB in the 1st round, no FB FAs in sight, says Harris is new FB and Harris is working almost exclusively at halfback???!?!?

    FB was such a weak spot since Hodgins is gone that the solution is to experiment with Gordon or Harris or Nead or whomever at the spot. Someone make up sMartz' mind for him please. Before he starts re-experimenting with the TE position. The Rams also have moved defensive end Nick Burley to tight end. Ooops, too late. Since the DE position is so firmly established sMartz might as well try converting unneeded position players into a new position - which has proven to be such an effective supplement to replacing people like Conwell, etc ...

    Is training camp over yet?

  • #2
    Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

    Dude, try a little decaf in the hollow. How I read it, Goodspeed is the FB. Harris is learning the position just in case Goodspeed goes down. Also, he's wanting to use Harris with Faulk some, not a bad idea really.

    Burley wasn't going to make this team on defense. He would have been a practice squad player at best. Maybe he has some blocking ability.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

      Originally posted by txramsfan
      Dude, try a little decaf in the hollow.

      I don't know, I don't think the leafs that get chewed around here come in decaf ...

      Regardless, "All we are saying is give peace a chance." What I mean is ... say what you mean, and mean what you say. Quit experimenting. Quit saying one thing and then doing another before the ink is dry.

      For all I know, Burley has great hands and has good technique at blocking ... BUT, hasn't the idea of trying to convert people to positions they haven't been trained for pretty much been shown to be a bust in the sMartz ERA? And if you need a TE, why not get a TE rather than a DE to convert to a TE?

      And Harris. I would have left him at HB to start with. Now if there was such a need to convert him to FB then why encourage him to bulk up and then turn around and say well HB is better ... now the extra weight may be a handicap. And that doesn't address the fact that FB was seen as a weaknesses. Now I don't see how working Harris back out at HB helps the FB issue. Where are the FA/draft FBs to push Goodspeed?

      Maybe decaf something would help understand these typical sMartz maneuvers, but my head still hurts from reading this stuff ...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

        Originally posted by adarian_too
        Where are the FA/draft FBs to push Goodspeed?
        I think his name is Dusty McGrorty. It sounds as if after seeing he had some good workouts at fullback, the Rams saw that they didn't have to completely move Arlen there immediately.

        As for Burley becoming a tight end, obviously the Rams have their starter at tight end, and more than likely have their #2 guy in Cleeland or Jensen. I don't think they see this situation as them needing a tight end, but rather a situation where they think Burley would work better at tight end.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

          Originally posted by NickSeiler
          I think his name is Dusty McGrorty. It sounds as if after seeing he had some good workouts at fullback, the Rams saw that they didn't have to completely move Arlen there immediately.

          I'd like to be an eternal optimist and read what you have into the situation, but I can't. I'll bet McGrorty won't be there come the 53 man roster.
          But my point isn't about the potential of some of these players, but about the tendency of sMartz to experiment, or profess potential, and then either not follow-thru (e.g., Gordon) or either not pan-out (e.g., Nead, St. Clair) and still insist that he has an eye for converting athletic ability into specialized talent (e.g., the OSU and NEB QBs) when he has yet to prove he knows what he is talking about. And it doesn't matter what came first. sMartz said he didn't need a FB, then he said he did. But he didn't need a proven one, Gordon will do. But he then decides he does need a proven one and a back-up isn't necessary. A back-up is then necessary, but a proven one isn't, Harris will do. Now McGrorty will do? Harris might just be a supplement?

          [Just further illustration of personnel management issues with sMartz as far as I am concerned. Stayed tuned to the latest weather report because you know the weather is just going to change or at least the report of it is ...]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

            But with a 61-27 record over the past five seasons
            That is all I have to say regarding Martz's personnel decisions.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

              Originally posted by adarian_too
              still insist that he has an eye for converting athletic ability into specialized talent (e.g., the OSU and NEB QBs) when he has yet to prove he knows what he is talking about.
              All I can say is that things can change on a daily basis, and some of the claims Martz might think are possible might seem less likely or unnecessary once they get into camp and learn about some other people they have.

              But I'm honestly curious... where has Martz insisted he has an eye for converting players? Has he come out and said something along the lines of, "One of my talents is to see an athletic player and be able to change his position to better fit his skills?" I've never heard him say that, yet you criticize him for it. I'm just wondering if you could point me to where he's said that, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic or confrontational. Chances are I just missed it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

                Originally posted by NickSeiler
                But I'm honestly curious... where has Martz insisted he has an eye for converting players? Has he come out and said something along the lines of, "One of my talents is to see an athletic player and be able to change his position to better fit his skills?" I've never heard him say that, yet you criticize him for it. I'm just wondering if you could point me to where he's said that, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic or confrontational. Chances are I just missed it.

                And I probably have missed it too. This happens to be a case where "actions speak louder than words." And his actions in drafting players, like Bellasari and Crouch, to play other positions is enough testimony for me of his implied talent to re-position skills. Not to mention RamDez' post a minute ago about McGrorty being another example of attempting to convert an individual skilled in one position (e.g., tailback) into another (e.g., fullback).



                Originally posted by Tanus
                That is all I have to say regarding Martz's personnel decisions.

                If numbers are all you need for validation ... then may I offer 0-4 ... as in seasons with SB wins as HC? (Ignoring for the moment that he has head-coached only four years with a record of 45-24 http://www.nfl.com/teams/coaching/STL)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

                  Yea, all coaches should be judged on Super Bowl wins. It only took Vermeil a hundred and fifty years to win his.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

                    Originally posted by txramsfan
                    Yea, all coaches should be judged on Super Bowl wins. It only took Vermeil a hundred and fifty years to win his.

                    Am I going to be at this one all day? You know full well my point TX was to say that numbers alone don't tell the whole story ...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

                      I had a belly full of bbq when I typed that. It was all, that I could do, to keep from cryin.......lol

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

                        Dam, the arguing is starting already. Must be football season. Who cares who is at FB or HB, just as long as they win. And they will win.

                        :ramlogo:
                        JUST WIN ONE FOR THE FANS
                        :ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram::ram:

                        "HIT HARD, HIT FAST, AND HIT OFTEN"
                        Adm. William "Bull" Halsey

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

                          whoa...uno momento calihari suspendo...

                          i'm not 'smartz's' stauchiest supporter but i don't consider him a total superficial, unreliable moron...

                          this article was written by thomas, and i don't see, unless i try real hard, anything substantial that indicates that martz has lost his marbles and mojo, yet.

                          'thinkering with the blue print' is not the same as 'rebuilding' or 'whole sell bargaining'.

                          true, martz and his staff is known to have an affininty for positional conversion attempts but that's hardly groundbreaking nor revolutionary these days.

                          one important aspect we sometimes neglect to see is that these players are either low round picks or free agents. i'd be much more concerned if smartz and co. draft a HIGH first day pick (i know, i know eric crouch was a third rounder) and tried to convert someone like steven jackson to wr or j. kennedy to OT... another point is that most of these guys being converted had little chance of making the once very very talented roster of the rams in their original college position. you may be right in that complacency allowed for smartz to tinker with trung candidate with the low first round pick but i think he's learned from making that sort of mindless picks ever again...

                          i don't see that it's completely hopeless that smartz and co. change their minds regarding a player in training camp or the preseason. better then than doing it during the season...

                          boy, i can't wait for the preseason games so that we can see for ourselves what our team is in for this season...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

                            Originally posted by rampete
                            whoa...uno momento calihari suspendo...

                            this article was written by thomas, and i don't see, unless i try real hard, anything substantial that indicates that martz has lost his marbles and mojo, yet.

                            true, martz and his staff is known to have an affininty for positional conversion attempts but that's hardly groundbreaking nor revolutionary these days.

                            My gripe really is with the fact the "original blueprint" apparently didn't value Conwell and Hodgins very highly as intregal parts. "Apparently" they thought these parts were easily replaceable. I really don't have a problem in principle with trying out marginal players in other positions ... BUT only if simultaneously you are addressing questions in the blueprint with more proven talent. If you need FB help, bring in some established FBs to compete for the job while trying out a couple of undrafted athletes. Quit trying to blow smoke up people's asss by insinuating that a project might be the better answer to a question. And changes are so common place now with sMartz, that it was barely less than a year when Gordon was going to be the answer, and then 6 months ago Harris is going to bulk up for the good of the team, but sMartz can be excused for waffling so often and rapidly because it is has become an institutionalized myth that "change is good."

                            On the other hand, trying a marginal player at TE is not as big of a molehill because ... well, for better or worse, there are 2 "established" players in Manu and Cleeland ahead of the project.

                            Maybe I just think stability is a virtue and the preservation of continuity is worthy of striving for ...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Thomas of Post Dispatch - July 29, 2004

                              I'm with you Adarian.

                              These guys specialize in one position and play it their whole amatuer career, and then Martz thinks he can just switch them over to another position because they have the build or athletic ability. I'm not even thrilled with Aneas at Safety...I think he's OK, but would probably serve us better as our 3rd corner, and get a "true" safety to play, umm....safety.

                              Martz also thinks he's a doctor.

                              Comment

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