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How long is too long for Pace and the Postons?

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  • How long is too long for Pace and the Postons?

    Just thinking out loud here after watching a disappointing Outside the Lines (see General NFL Talk), but the more I thought about the situation, the more I began to wonder...

    How long is too long when it comes to waiting for Pace and the Postons to reach a reasonable long term contract with the Rams?

    Obviously with the increasing amount of the franchise tag on Orlando Pace, as well as other players who we might want to retain using that tag, we can't tag Pace year in and year out. This is the second year in a row the tag has been placed on Pace, and while Orlando's comments in March were optimistic about a long-term deal being done this fall, we've yet to see or hear anything from him that would indicate that's still the case.

    So for a moment, let's assume that Pace signs the tender during the preseason and once again fails to sign a long-term deal. At what point do the Rams begin to look for a viable replacement at left tackle, thus marking the beginning of the end of their dealings with Pace and the Postons? Does such a point exist?

    Personally, I think that if the Rams and Pace can't reach a long-term deal by next spring when the time to franchise Orlando comes again, the Rams should begin considering alternative answers for the left tackle position. I'll be the first to tell you that Pace is one of the most valuable offensive linemen in the game, but the Rams cannot afford to be held hostage like this for many more seasons. Plus, I believe in the 2005 draft, there will be a number of good (not elite, but very good) tackle prospects, guys like Alex Barron or Jammal Brown, who may not be able to play as well as Pace, but should be very adequate and efficient players. Also, it's hard to tell who might be available in free agency, too.

    The bottom line is I don't see the Postons bending to lower demands, and I'm not convinced that Pace is going to give them the boot any time soon. As much as the Rams may want to continue tagging Pace year after year (I think an interview with Zygmunt alluded to this), I don't think that's going to be an option after another season or two.

  • #2
    Re: How long is too long for Pace and the Postons?

    Nice read Nick, I agree, with what you are saying, my bottomline is and I'm still STILL hoping that Pace signs this dam tender and the Rams still have that signing bonus on the table, Pace comes to his sences, as we know he hates camp and signs up Long term.....and pigs might fly lol......


    Another question with Turley going awol does this give the postons a ton more leveage????? to me it does!!!!

    steve :ramlogo:
    "The breakfast Club":helmet:

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    • #3
      Re: How long is too long for Pace and the Postons?

      I'd just as soon see Pace take a hike. I know I should want him to stay for the sake of the team, but if his focus was ON the team, he'd be in Macomb right now. With all the other changes in other positions, we might as well cut Pace loose, bring in some young blood and call this a rebuilding year. Who knows, some of them newbies could surprise us and take us where we want to go anyway.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: How long is too long for Pace and the Postons?

        Pace is not getting any younger. If he keeps tempting fate by gambling that he won't get injured seriously during the regular season he could get burned big time! As obtuse as big O sometimes appears (see retaining the Postons), he is surely aware that a season ending injury could wipe away his shot at getting the BIG money. Ian Gold another Poston client is a good example--the Broncos made him a very generous offer and by way of the Postons brilliance, he elected to refuse the offer and sign the franchise tender instead. Ian was subsequently injured and out the rest of that year. Denver not surprisingly went in another direction the following year and Ian lost out on getting a huge signing bonus. Tampa Bay picked him up cheap compared with what he would have made had he signed the offer the Broncos made to him.

        I think this year big O will finally sign with or without the Postons. The opportunity to hook up with the big bucks will not be there forever especially if big O were to sustain a serious injury. O hates camp and is going to miss as much of this one as he can--one last time!! :ramlogo:

        GO RAMMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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        • #5
          Re: How long is too long for Pace and the Postons?

          If Pace were smart, he'd sign a long term deal and protect his future.

          I'm not sure he's that smart.

          Either way, I have no doubt that Pace will sign before the last preseason game - whether it be the tender or a long term deal - and will play and make the Pro Bowl again.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: How long is too long for Pace and the Postons?

            Originally posted by AvengerRam
            If Pace were smart, he'd sign a long term deal and protect his future.
            Exactly. If I were Pace, I'd be telling the Postons that I want to get a deal done so I can get some guaranteed money for the future in case I get injured. This tender deal isn't helping him at all.

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            • #7
              Re: How long is too long for Pace and the Postons?

              Originally posted by AvengerRam
              If Pace were smart, he'd sign a long term deal and protect his future.
              Unfortunately, that is one enormous IF. The Postons don't sign smart clients. I wish I could find the report, but a column was written comparing the Wonderlic scores of Poston clients with the NFL average. And while I can't remember the exact numbers, the NFL average was 22 or 23 (out of a possible 50) somewhere in there, while the average Poston client was 10 or 11. If Pace is on par with that analysis, he isn't exactly the brightest bulb in the lighthouse.
              The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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              • #8
                Re: How long is too long for Pace and the Postons?

                Hey, lay off the Postons! They're lawyers and they're doing their job. Survey says they will get top dollars for their clients. And that's the way it is....

                I say trade Pace now for all we can get for him. Or, make him honor his contract, or not pay him at all, then trade him. Historically the Ram's FO has excelled in underpaying great players. No reason for them to change now.

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                • #9
                  Re: How long is too long for Pace and the Postons?

                  Are they lawyers, or just agents?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: How long is too long for Pace and the Postons?

                    You might want to check with Ian Gold about that top dollar statement. For that matter check with Pace. If he had signed last year, his bonus would have better than twice the tender amount. Looks like the Postons are costing their clients money.
                    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: How long is too long for Pace and the Postons?

                      Originally posted by HUbison
                      I wish I could find the report, but a column was written comparing the Wonderlic scores of Poston clients with the NFL average. And while I can't remember the exact numbers, the NFL average was 22 or 23 (out of a possible 50) somewhere in there, while the average Poston client was 10 or 11. If Pace is on par with that analysis, he isn't exactly the brightest bulb in the lighthouse.
                      From a similar article:

                      ...six of the high profile Poston clients currently involved in contract issues along with their Wonderlic test scores. The six players, Pace, Law, Arrington, Charles Woodson (Raiders), Ian Gold (Broncos) and Julian Peterson (*****), all had an average Wonderlic score of a 15.5, which the Pro Football Weekly article said placed the players "somewhere between 'mildly autistic donkey' and 'pile of cracked bricks' on the overall intelligence scale." To top it off, Lion receiver Charles Rogers, the third pick in the 2003 draft, had a Wonderlic score of 10, which the article states "puts him in a position to outwit a handful of moist soil."

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                      • #12
                        Re: How long is too long for Pace and the Postons?

                        Interesting... explains alot...

                        POSTONS PLAYING TO A 'SLOW' DEMOGRAPHIC?

                        A league source with access to Wonderlic scores tells us that agents Carl and Kevin Poston could be successful in signing high-profile clients primarily because they're attracting guys who might think the key word in the title to this piece refers to some kind of a computer program.

                        Per the source, the six Poston clients who currently are embroiled in a dispute with their respective NFL teams (i.e., Charles Woodson, Julian Peterson, Orlando Pace, Ty Law, Ian Gold, and LaVar Arrington) generated an average score of 15.5 on the Wonderlic test, which in our estimation puts them somewhere between 'mildly autistic donkey' and 'pile of cracked bricks' on the overall intelligence scale.

                        For the sake of any mildly autistic donkeys that might be offended by the comparison, we're joking about those classifications.

                        But not about the numbers.

                        The trend continued with their 2003 draft picks. Lions receiver Charles Rogers scored a 10 on the Wonderlic, which puts him in a position to outwit a handful of moist soil.

                        Colts safety Mike Doss and Texans linebacker Antwan Peek each scored a 13, which means that their dogs successfully have trained them to get their own newspapers and slippers.

                        The geek of the bunch is Vikings linebacker E.J. Henderson, who notched a 26. Though a 26 is a far cry from the 'genius' category, in the land of the blind a one-eyed man is still the king.

                        So is it a coincidence that the Postons are signing players of limited intellectual skills? Our guess is that the Postons aren't specifically targeting these guys. The truth may be, however, that they are more susceptible to making decisions based on emotion -- making them more likely to be manipulated by agents who play on their emotions.

                        More importantly, the Wonderlic results suggest to us that these players also are more likely to defer to their agents when big decisions come along -- and not to question those who act on their behalf.

                        The results speak for themselves. Woodson, Pace, and Peterson don't have long-term deals, Gold is languishing on the free-agent shelf, Law is playing chicken with a team that has shown it won't blink, and Arrington got screwed out of $6.5 million because the Postons didn't read the final draft of his contract.

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                        • Guest's Avatar
                          Its time for RamTime’s annual *****ing about Pace
                          by Guest
                          Yep it’s that time of year again when we collectively wonder if Pace is team player or not. It looks as if this year will tell a lot. Since he “fired” his agent and Walter Jones has signed there really is no reason for Opie to hold the Rams hostage and should sign a deal before free agency. We shall see but don’t hold your breath because I still maintain the he’s lazy and hates camp enough that he would trade not having to participate in spring training for holding his team hostage. It’s time people start calling this like it looks and stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.

                          Left tackle for sale, abada abada abada Left tackle for sale.... Step right up and feast your eyes on this massive specimen. That's right for 8 million dollars he can be yours for a whole year ahm minus the off season and uhm minus training camp, and uhm minus most of the pre season... abada abada abada Left Tackle for sale....
                          -02-25-2005, 03:07 AM
                        • Nick
                          What would you do with Pace?
                          by Nick
                          Let's assume Pace doesn't sign a long term deal with us. If you had to choose a path to go down with him, which of these options would you choose?
                          Franchise him and keep him - he's too valuable to lose.
                          22.22%
                          4
                          Franchise him and trade him - we can improve other areas.
                          55.56%
                          10
                          Don't franchise him - let him walk as a free agent.
                          22.22%
                          4
                          -02-09-2005, 03:25 PM
                        • RamWraith
                          Pace Enjoying Offseason Work
                          by RamWraith
                          By Nick Wagoner
                          Staff Writer

                          Orlando Pace doesn’t remember where he was at this time last year. The one place he knows he wasn’t was Rams Park for the team’s veteran mini-camp.

                          “I probably was working out, just hanging out with my kids. I’m not much of a golfer, so I was probably just chillin’ at home,” Pace said.

                          For the first time since 2002, the Rams’ All-Pro left tackle is attending the team’s veteran mini-camp. Pace missed each of the past two mini-camps because of a contract stalemate.

                          Armed with a new seven-year, $52.9 million deal and the title of team captain, Pace seems rejuvenated. Soon after signing the long-term contract, Pace received a call from coach Mike Martz telling him that he was going to be a captain.

                          The decision to make Pace a captain was easy for Martz.

                          “Just the tempo of which he does things, he is just a great role model for the entire offensive line,” Martz said. “We have some guys that are first-time starters and first-time here. He’s a terrific role model (for them).”

                          Pace’s long and winding road from the first pick in the 1997 draft to six-time Pro Bowler has brought many achievements, but he has never been a team captain before. Pace left Ohio State a year early after winning the Lombardi Trophy as the best offensive lineman two years in a row. Because of his early departure, Pace never led the Buckeyes, as Ohio State reserves that honor for seniors.

                          Of course, Pace was not a captain in recent seasons because he wasn’t around. Without a long-term deal in place, the Rams placed the franchise tag on Pace in each of the past three seasons.

                          The past two years, Pace has not attended any of the mini-camps or training camps because of the franchise tag. In his efforts to get a long-term contract done, he chose to stay away.

                          The time missed didn’t hurt Pace’s performance much, as he still made the Pro Bowl both years. There was, however, a noticeable difference in Pace’s performance last season. Pace admitted on the day he signed his contract that he didn’t play up to his all-world potential last year and an offseason of normal training would probably rectify that.

                          Now, Pace knows he has a chance to be at his absolute best next year, a scary thought for opposing defenses.

                          “I think sometimes what gets lost in holding out is you don’t have a chance to work on your game as much,” Pace said. “I think just being here in the offseason gives you a chance to work on your game and really try to hone your skills.”

                          Last season was particularly difficult for Pace, not only because of his uncertain contract status, but also because of the revolving door next to him at left guard and on the other end at right tackle.

                          Both of those problems seem to be solved, though, as St. Louis signed Rex Tucker to operate next to Pace...
                          -06-04-2005, 03:35 PM
                        • Nick
                          Rams place franchise tag on Orlando Pace
                          by Nick
                          http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1989427

                          No surprise here.
                          -02-11-2005, 02:55 PM
                        • AvengerRam_old
                          A Pace Solution (This is so crazy it just might work)
                          by AvengerRam_old
                          Here's an idea of how to resolve the Orlando Pace situation. Its a bit "out there," but who knows, maybe its not too far-fetched...

                          Step 1: Offer Pace a lucrative, but reasonable, long-term deal before the deadline for franchising players. Hopefully, he'll accept. If not, go to Step 2.

                          Step 2: Franchise Pace.

                          Step 3: Assuming that the Seahawks franchise Walter Jones, determine whether he would accept the contract offered to Pace. If so, trade the Rams 2005 and 2006 first round choices for Jones, and sign him long-term.

                          Step 4: Trade Pace to a weaker team for their 2005 and 2006 first round draft choices.

                          End Result: Rams would still have first round picks in 2005 and 2006, but presumably would have picks earlier in the draft. They would also have Walter Jones, who is about as good as Pace, signed long-term.

                          Now that, would be a great solution.

                          [NOTE: If no team would give the Rams their next two first rounders for Pace, the Rams would still have Pace and Jones as their tackles, with Pace playing for the franchise tender again.]
                          -02-11-2005, 09:50 AM
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