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Bernie on Poston on Pace

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  • #1

    Bernie on Poston on Pace

    Carl Poston was on the NFL channel on the Sirius (satellite) radio network today.

    Here's what he said about Pace and the Rams:

    “The situation in St. Louis is a little more difficult because the Rams just fundamentally don’t want to pay an offensive lineman what some of the other positions are being paid. To be quite frank with you, on their side it is a difficult situation because they had Kurt Warner and they had Marshall Faulk. You had two guys who were MVP’s of the League. However, Orlando was there before both of those guys. If you ask either one of those guys, it took the offensive line and, obviously Orlando Pace, to help them with their Super Bowls, Pro Bowls and MVP’s.”

    “Now another side of that is Orlando Pace was a number one pick in 1996. Well, the number one pick in 1997 just got 34.5 million dollars and a 100 million dollar contract. However, he’s a quarterback, but he still has not gone to the Super Bowl like Orlando or gone to the Pro Bowl as much as Orlando. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to say that Orlando is a quarterback, however I don’t see Peyton Manning being 40-million or even 30-million or even 20-million dollars more valuable than Orlando Pace. Those are some of the issues that we are confronted with in dealing with Orlando’s deal in St. Louis.”

    “I’d like to use Gallery’s deal in Orlando Pace’s situation. You have somebody who hasn’t put their foot on the turf yet, and you have somebody who’s been in the Pro Bowl six years now. You have to take a look at those situations and they will obviously have an impact in Orlando’s contract.”

    Cheers,
    Bernie

    ==================

    Post subject: Poston speaks out on Pace

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    funny....Pace got more than established NFL tackles as a rookie....Poston didn't complain then...he wants to have it both ways.

    Cheers,
    Bernie
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

    Putting aside a lot of the usual poston BS, i dont think you can argue with the fact that pace deserves more money than gallery, and i think quite a bit more. Gallery may be the new Pace, but he has yet to set foot on the field in an NFL game. Sure, pace got more than "established" nfl tackles when he signed originally, but i doubt that he got more than 6 time first team nfl all pros at his position were making at the time.

    We better be ready to cough up $20 mill. or i dont see how a deal will get done. If it cant get done long term, at least we need him in camp, and presumably, at some point, he will show up.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

      As much as I like Pace and hope he signs....I would be willing to help him pack his bags.

      The salary cap is not designed for that kind of money for a lineman. In my opinion you are eating away a lot of leverage in the future by signing one lineman and giving that much for one person on a 6 man front. The salary cap is designed for skilled players and a couple of good line man. It would be different if the NFL structured different, but its not. If a tackle gets that much where does it end?? People are beginning to take advantage of the cap and are looking for some outrages demands. If a tackle signs for a 20 million bonus then a QB expects a 100 million. Apples for apples people.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

        Holy crap!

        Something from Bernie that makes sense and is on the money!

        There must be snowballs in Hell today!
        Clannie Nominee for ClanRam's Thickest Poster

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

          Postonomics has little to do with reality.


          If you could merge Orlando Pace with Jackie Slater, Anthony Munoz, Jonathan Ogden and a brick wall, he still would only get the money that is available under the salary cap for a top O lineman. To even mention Peyton Manning's contract - even with a concession that Pace can't get that money, is silly. And, while Gallery's contract might be pertinent, I suspect Poston is going to argue that Pace should get millions more than the him, notwithstanding the fact that the Rams need to fit Pace under the cap.

          Most importantly, though, Poston simply ignore's one economic reality that does not apply to Gallery. If he asks for too much for Pace, the Rams (unlike the Raiders) can simply offer the franchise tender and nothing more. Pace then can choose to play for $7 Million + or sit.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

            Originally posted by general counsel
            i dont think you can argue with the fact that pace deserves more money than gallery, and i think quite a bit more. Gallery may be the new Pace, but he has yet to set foot on the field in an NFL game.
            Not only is it not worth arguing over ... until fans demand that corporate executives realign their values and priorities and stop paying unproven talent more than established stars - regardless of the sport - then one is bound to chase their tail trying to get a handle on who the villian is in the story ...

            Is it restraint of trade and/or collusion for the entire draft selection to remain unsigned by any team because they all are demanding more than last year's draft class? The value of a commodity is supposedly based on supply and demand and the NFL has its own minor league system in college football. Eli doesn't want to play in SD? Screw him. Winslow wants more money than Gonzalez. Screw him too. There will be more talent coming out of the college ranks shortly and if the Cts and FTC would gets their acts together - people like Clarett could say they could supply labor sooner - and at a lower cost I bet.
            Last edited by adarian_too; -08-12-2004, 08:03 AM. Reason: cuz' I can't spell among other thjings i can't do ...

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

              *LOL*...PERFECT POINT adarian!!


              Originally posted by adarian_too
              Not only is it not worth arguing over ... until fans demand that corporate excutives realign their values and priorities and stop paying unproven talent more than established stars - regardless of the sport - then one is bound to chase their tail trying to get a handle on who the villian is in the story ...

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

                With record contracts coming out every other day (most recent being Winslow's contract --- whose signing bonus was more than his old man's career earnings) the NFL has to reach a boiling point some time. I mean where does it end? With players looking at his neighbor's greener grass and teams willing to mortgage the farm to act as that players ChemLawn, there has to be some point where all of this boils out. But I guess that is why they call it balance.

                In today's NFL the greatest skill is not passing, running, catching or tackling, but evaluating. A coach or GM that can properly value the worth of a player and the athlete with the best Net Present Value will find themselves in the Super Bowl.
                The more things change, the more they stay the same.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

                  In today's NFL the greatest skill is not passing, running, catching or tackling, but evaluating. A coach or GM that can properly value the worth of a player and the athlete with the best Net Present Value will find themselves in the Super Bowl.
                  Great point, HUbison....and all you have to do is look at the Patriots' organization to witness the validity of your statement.
                  Clannie Nominee for ClanRam's Thickest Poster

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

                    Poston is talking out of the wrong side of his mouth. Pace is really hurting himself and the team with this garbage. The man can be stellar, but this annual whining ritual is getting old.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

                      Originally posted by DJRamFan
                      Poston is talking out of the wrong side of his mouth. Pace is really hurting himself and the team with this garbage. The man can be stellar, but this annual whining ritual is getting old.
                      You're right, DJ. When will he figure out that every year he plays for that tender is another year that he loses money. The Rams will keep franchising him until he his worth descends, and by then nobody will pay him the kind of money he could make if he signs a reasonable long-term deal now. Oh well, I guess the Postons and their cerebral cub-scouts will venture on down the paths of stupidity.
                      The more things change, the more they stay the same.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

                        Originally posted by HUbison
                        The Rams will keep franchising him until he his worth descends
                        Then it's only a matter of time before the Rams are forced to ask guys like Faulk or Bruce to rework their contracts. The Rams probably can't afford to continue franchising Pace past this season without either making some significant cuts or getting some renegotiations on contracts. He's going to cost a minimum of $8.46 million in 2005 and $10.15 million in '06 if he's tagged in both of those years. That's going to get pretty costly pretty quickly.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

                          Originally posted by NickSeiler
                          Then it's only a matter of time before the Rams are forced to ask guys like Faulk or Bruce to rework their contracts. The Rams probably can't afford to continue franchising Pace past this season without either making some significant cuts or getting some renegotiations on contracts. He's going to cost a minimum of $8.46 million in 2005 and $10.15 million in '06 if he's tagged in both of those years. That's going to get pretty costly pretty quickly.
                          kinda sucks, huh.
                          The more things change, the more they stay the same.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

                            Originally posted by HUbison
                            kinda sucks, huh.
                            Yeah, definitely. Perhaps that's why we drafted someone like Chillar, because with the Pace situation, we've no guarantee that we'll be able to keep someone like Polley on our roster. I really hope that if we can't get him signed by March next spring, we start looking for other answers at the LT position. Pace is a great player, but it's not worth self destructing our team over.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Bernie on Poston on Pace

                              Kellen Winslow, Jr. just signed a contract making him the league's highest paid TE... and he's a Poston client.

                              By Poston's logic, shouldn't Winslow be paid less than Tony Gonzalez?

                              Comment

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                              • RamWraith
                                Pace weighs in on his stance in contract talks
                                by RamWraith
                                By Jim Thomas
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                                "At this time last year, he was very sluggish. The conditioning was a factor
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                                If only things could go as smoothly on the negotiating front.

                                "I'm always hoping that they can get a deal done - for security reasons, and
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                                deadline. Since Sunday, when Pace signed the tender, the sides can talk again.

                                A few weeks after the Rams' playoff loss to Carolina on Jan. 10, the Rams
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                                -09-10-2004, 06:19 AM
                              • ZigZagRam
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                                This is good! This is very good!
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                                -02-17-2008, 07:44 AM
                              • RamWraith
                                Poston is suing Pace
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                                Rams | Former agent suing Pace
                                Wed, 2 Aug 2006 05:57:57 -0700

                                Mike Martindale, of the Detroit News, reports St. Louis Rams OT Orlando Pace is being sued by agent Carl Poston. Poston said he's now blocking Pace from his rightful $436,916 arbitration award. Poston has filed a lawsuit in Oakland Circuit Court, Michigan seeking the amount entered by a National Football League arbitration award May 10. Pace was obligated to pay Poston within 10 days. Pace was designated the Rams' franchise player in 2003 when Poston negotiated a one-year, $5.7 million contract. Roger Kaplan, an arbitrator with the National Football League Players Association, found Poston was owed 3 percent for that contract, $213,478, plus interest, as well as $210,630 for Pace's $7 million contract for 2004. Pace had a different agent when he landed a six-year $52.3 million contract, in 2005.
                                -08-02-2006, 05:04 PM
                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Simple question on Pace
                                by Guest
                                This topic IS worthy of beating what is hopefully not a dead horse.

                                We are an 8-8 team that won a playoff game that had MAJOR problems on our offense line last year. Our best defensive player may or may not be incarcerated by the time we start the season. Cap or no cap, exactly HOW is trading away our best offensive lineman, and one of the best in the league, a guy who even if he didnt have his best season got beat only a handful of times all year and NEVER requires double team help on the qbs blind side, going to help our chances of improving the team in 2005 and beyond. We are not a rebuilding team.

                                Furthermore, we still dont have a RIGHT tackle, let alone anyone remotely competent to replace pace. IF we get another left tackle, as avenger says, that is one thing, but the odds of getting a guy even in the same ballpark as pace for 2005 are very, very limited in my view.

                                Guys its about performance, even if he isnt willing to discount to market to stay with the team, even if he is selfish, even if he is a distraction, how exactly do you figure that we are better off without him.

                                If we spend the money we save on defense, how are we going to protect the qb.

                                How much do you think we are actually going to save under the cap. Pace costs 8.2 under the tender. What do you think its going to cost to replace him. Until you replace him, you dont know what the net savings are, and given what left tackles go for these days, i dont think we are going to save anywhere near what some people think we are going to save, and we will in all liklihood be overpaying for inferior talent.

                                Very, very sensitive subject for me, i think when people talk about the Big Three that won us the sb title and led to the great run this team has had, Pace is so often overlooked as to the critical nature of his contribution.

                                ramming speed to all

                                general counsel
                                -03-13-2005, 08:47 PM
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