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  • OK, convince me!

    I have read plenty of posts from people saying fans shouldn't look at the bright side of last night's defeat, that instead we should all don sackcloth and ashes, and mourn the death of the 2008 season for our Rams.

    Convince me why I should!

    I watched only the first quarter, but I did listen to the entire game. Of course, the TV broadcast was done by the Titans Network, meaning that the commentary was biased in favor of the Titans. The other 3 quarters was a mix of NFL's gamecenter and KTVI audio, niether of which was very good.

    What I came out of the media barrage I witnessed is the following:

    1. Marc looked a little rusty. Of course, considering that there was only TWO others on the offense who had ever played in Saunder's system, I expected to see some confusion. But, I guess that since Marc didn't launch a 99 yard Hail Mary for 6 on the first possession means that Marc is all washed up. After all, when a reciever isn't in the right place at the right time, it's always the QB's fault.

    2. I also saw a really good defense beat our O-line. Considering that these front five guys have NEVER played a single game together before, We know it's all Pace's fault. He is all washed up, and we should have traded for Jake Long and then overpaid him to take Pace's spot.

    3. I saw 2 passes go long, so long that no one on either team had a chance to get to them. It didn't matter that both times the recievers were double covered and had no chance in hell of breaking away, those recievers must suck, so we should have traded them for some untested rookie. Darn Linehan for drafting someone who has skills that our offense could use instead of some other rookie!

    4. I saw our defense get beat up. Badly. Even though they made a solid stand in the red zone, we know they suck. It doesn't matter that some of our starters were out, we should have beaten the Titans back into the stone age with undersized, inexperienced rookies. It's all Haslett's fault for not having UFA's and rookies available that we can afford.

    5. Our "wannabe's" didn't come back in the second half and win the game. Of course, they have had a whole 90 days or so to forget everything they ever learned about football just to learn football all over again. I forget that other millionaires such as Bill Gates have been there before. Didn't he have to forget everything he knew about Windows 98 to learn Windows XP in just 90 days? He didn't? Oh my. Those rookies and coaches have to go....NOW!

    So, as you can see, I am NOT saying everything will be OK by next week. In fact, I'll be happy if we win 3 of our first 8, and come out 8-8 this season. I know all is not well in St. Louis as of yet, and I didn't expect it to be. Last year I had hope, because everything was in place. This year, we have a tougher schedule, most of our great players are either gone or they are getting older, we have a lot of kids who are still learning the ropes (believe it or not, it sometimes takes a rookie 2 or 3 seasons to get good!), and we have a lot of new coaching faces. We are a team that is still rebuilding, and likely will be doing so for a few more years. On top of all this, Georgia just passed away not too long ago, so the new ownership is still in a very mixed-up state.

    So, if I take your black-hearted approach to things, we get rid of Linehan. Who's going to take his place NOW? Not Haslett, because you have his head on the chopping block already. Saunders? He doesn't own a magic wand, and if it took more than 3 games for him to make an unbeatable team, then he'd be next. Not only that, but we could extend this entire perception to society as a whole. We could do away with the entire court system, since it would no longer take reasonable proof to convict someone. We could even do away with elections! All we'd have to do is point out how someone had a bad hair day, so they aren't qualified for office!

    So - convince me. Tell me why I should turn from a fan who supports my team, who looks at a loss that doesn't mean a thing and finds SOMETHING encouraging. Tell me why I should be convinced that it is better to pass judgement after one poor performance than to watch and see how the entire season goes. Tell me why?

    Before you answer - go look into the mirror and ask yourself this: Am I really a Rams fan, or am I just someone who is a fan when things go my way?

    Those of us who are trying to find hope are not blind to the poor performances. We aren't walking around with dumb smiles on our faces. We want to see the Rams respected because they are a great team. We all want to see Belicheck cry because the Rams just stomped their butts. We just aren't willing to hide our faces because the team sucks. I wear Rams gear with pride, I drive around with Rams logos on my truck. I sure as hell ain't gonna take it off just because of one lousy game that followed one lousy season. Maybe those of you who are ready to pack it in need to find a Rams fan who lived through the 90's and ask them how they survived - and if they quit representing the team proudly.

    Now - convince me to wear that stylish sackcloth and ashes you have on.

  • #2
    Re: OK, convince me!

    Sackcloth itches. Dont do it.

    Preseason games mean little. However they can indicate areas in which a team is lacking or areas that need work. That's what we saw in the Titans game.

    1.The o-line needs to gell. Barring injury they will.

    2.The offense needs Jackson. He makes the running game go which makes the passing game more effective.

    3. The team lacks quality depth. The Rams have been quiet in the FA market where they could have added that depth (at the very least). As long as the starters stay healthy it could be a good season (that's true for most teams of course), but if our starters go down -- particularly on D -- the Rams could be in a lot of trouble.

    That's what I took from the Titans game.


    • #3
      Re: OK, convince me!

      I am totally with you!

      Preseason games means nothing. Just check how many games the Colts have lost in preseason the last many years.

      Will the Rams win the SB this year, I think not, will they make the playoffs? There is always hope. Will they be better then last year absolutely. As you also say we are in rebuilding mode and I think the future look bright. But it will take time so we have to be patient, stop whinning and support our team, both the old proven players and the new players who will become the stars of tomorrow.

      On a side note:
      When I became a Ram fan in the late 90's alot of people was calling us new fans band wagon fans! Now that we are no longer the greatest show on turf alot of people are whinning, well I guess these are the times where band wagon fans and real fans are seperated

      Go RAMS!


      • #4
        Re: OK, convince me!

        Originally posted by Ben56 View Post
        3. The team lacks quality depth. The Rams have been quiet in the FA market where they could have added that depth (at the very least). As long as the starters stay healthy it could be a good season (that's true for most teams of course), but if our starters go down -- particularly on D -- the Rams could be in a lot of trouble.

        That's what I took from the Titans game.

        Ah, but here is where we get into something known as "Screwdus Formerdus Managementus", or as we common people refer to it, "Screwed by the former management". This means that due to trades, contracts, deals, picks, and all matters monetary, we're stuck. We've got some excellent players on D, but we have some who likely wouldn't make it as a backup on other teams. We can't cut them, because: a) there isn't anyone out there any better than who we have, or: b) we can't afford to pay an outrageous amount for a player who IS better than who we've got, or; c) one of the other 31 teams can afford to pay much better, or; d) one of the other 31 teams has some connection with the player.

        It makes you feel kinda like you do at tax time, doesn't it?

        The good thing is that during a rebuild, no matter what it is that is being rebuilt, you throw in some new parts. I'll use an engine as an example:

        When you rebuild an engine, you replace a lot of worn-out parts, including some that you would never think about normally, like the cam bearings. Usually, as long as you change the oil, do tune-ups, etc., those bearings won't give you any trouble. But, unless you replace those bearings during a rebuild, you're going to have problems. Those cheap little pieces of metal can destroy your engine, starting with the camshaft, and ending with a thud and a lot of oil.

        Well, some of those underachievers on our D are the cam bearings. They don't give you improved performance, but without them our D will explode. Don't worry, I'm sure that they will be replaced as soon as new ones are available...and if you ever rebuilt an engine, you know how sweet they run when you first fire them up and break 'em in...


        • #5
          Re: OK, convince me!

          Maybe you can't be convinced, but you'll be told that this team and this organization is just plain Garbage. Sometime we just have to face the harsh realities. Its not about just one preseson game, its about how many ass kickings can one team take (preseason or otherwise) before its return to respectability from its fans and the rest of the league.
          Why is Marc rusty? How long has he been the league? First he had trouble learning Martz system, then Linehans' system, Now Saunders system is the latest exscuse.
          What Marc needs is for someone to light a fire from under and behind!

          I like our O-line if they can stay healthy.

          Linehan needs to go, yesterday! Whatta waste! (time and money)

          Did our Defensive front line play last night? Little, A.C., Hall, Glover did they do anything?

          Nice 2nd pick in the draft, not a peep from him either.

          Do you realize while you're wearing your Blue and gold gear, everyone laughing behind your back! and as far as your truck, if things continue in dreaded fashion for the Rams, the only thing left to do is Paint It, Black!:smug:


          • #6
            Re: OK, convince me!

            I said it before...its one thing to have your second teams routed in preseason, but its another to see your starters stumble--thats the worry!

            The Titans are not the only team that sport a good defense--which the Rams will soon discover this season. And its at the line that troubles me the most. How many solid plays where they where able to pass block--or better run block? Football is a game of fundimentals, and blocking is one of them. If you can't punch a hole in the D-line where is your RB suppose to go? If your WRs are covered, how is a QB to survive long enough till one breaks loose if the offensive line can't block?

            Indeed, the Rams may have some under performers--granted what ever the cause they are on the team, its a matter of how to get them to perform.

            DESCIMATION--best cure!! Public, brutal and humiliating--cut a few of them infront of the team letting all there to witness and know that those cut due to their performance will never play another down of professional football. Its a harsh tactic, but it works. Nothing like loosing a paycheck to inspire performance.


            • #7
              Re: OK, convince me!

              So, what you guys are saying is that I should be a Rams fan and support my team when we win, but not when we lose?

              I think there's a word for that....anyone help me out here?


              • #8
                Re: OK, convince me!

                Originally posted by RamsFanSam View Post
                So, what you guys are saying is that I should be a Rams fan and support my team when we win, but not when we lose?

                I think there's a word for that....anyone help me out here?


                Oh, no wait! I know.....


                Yeah, that's it.
                sigpicThis is for Randy! GO BRM!


                • #9
                  Re: OK, convince me!

                  Originally posted by RamsFanSam View Post
                  So, what you guys are saying is that I should be a Rams fan and support my team when we win, but not when we lose?

                  I think there's a word for that....anyone help me out here?
                  You don't have to get drastic! Never lose your support for the Rams, no matter how bad they get beaten by the Titans, in a preseason game.

                  Sometimes some of us just need to vent. Continue 'rockin' that 'Blue & Gold'!:red:


                  • #10
                    Re: OK, convince me!

                    Originally posted by RamsFanSam View Post
                    Those of us who are trying to find hope are not blind to the poor performances. We aren't walking around with dumb smiles on our faces. We want to see the Rams respected because they are a great team. ...We just aren't willing to hide our faces because the team sucks. I wear Rams gear with pride, I drive around with Rams logos on my truck. I sure as hell ain't gonna take it off just because of one lousy game that followed one lousy season. Maybe those of you who are ready to pack it in need to find a Rams fan who lived through the 90's and ask them how they survived - and if they quit representing the team proudly.

                    Now - convince me to wear that stylish sackcloth and ashes you have on.

                    Great post to counter the Negs and bring a perspective of real balance & hope. Thanks RFS. :helmet:


                    • #11
                      Re: OK, convince me!

                      Of course you should always support the team. But dont be delusional. Our starters got beat...bad


                      • #12
                        Re: OK, convince me!

                        I guess I don't get it.

                        What does talking about the Rams poor performance, and telling it like it is, have to to do with supporting the team? The team put on a really, really poor performance on Saturday, plain and simple. You can put any spin on it you want. "It was the backups, and all the injured starters not playing was the difference, or.... the Rams were just trying out the playbook but the Titans were playing to win." But the results and stats pretty much speak for themself, the Rams stunk up the field. You can sugarcoat a turd all you want, but it's still a turd. ...and I call a turd a turd.

                        So, tomorrow at work, when a fellow worker (that knows I'm a die-hard Ram fan) says to me; "your Rams sucked Saturday", if I respond by saying "you got that right", I'm not a true Ram's supporter?

                        Look, one preseason game does NOT a season make, but it may tell us something. Some of the Rams problems last year (in preseason, and then into the regular season) were repeated again on Saturday, and fans are understandably worried.

                        IF this team doesn't get it's act together in the next three weeks, and IF Jackson doesn't get his butt into camp, this team WILL be in trouble. That's not "gloom-and-doom" my friends, that's reality. Look at the schedule and tell me this team right now can take on the Eagles, Cowboys, Patriots, Giants, or Seahawks.

                        Let's hope the Rams put on a better performance next week against the Chargers. I don't care if they win or lose, but the first teamers had better show me a little something on both sides of the ball or I'll be on them like stink on...well, a turd. And if so....

                        ...can I still wear my Rams hat?


                        • #13
                          Re: OK, convince me!

                          I was at the Chargers (my home team right Roger Goodell?) and Cowboys game last night while our team was getting beat in a scrimmage at the same time. I finally watched the game today and no I wasn't happy, but I wasn't devastated either.

                          The funny thing is I saw the Cowboys just get whacked last night, but it really didn't matter. I also saw the same team whack the Rams last fall. Point being is it is pre-season ball and that's it. I have been watching the Rams pre-season games for long long time and I always find it better when we lose rather than we win. I think it is because if were losing, we actually being conservative and playing our second and third string players more. Pre-season means nothing to the record or to the regular season.

                          What did I see wrong?

                          Defense wasn't very good and the O'line isn't a complete unit yet....hmmm maybe we should play some more games that don't count against the record before we start the season to get everyone together on the same page....oh wait we do that already, in PRE-SEASON!
                          "The disappointment of losing is huge!"

                          Jack Youngblood


                          • #14
                            Re: OK, convince me!

                            This is just a plain ass whupn. And they look exactly like they ended the season. Jackson & Holt couldn,t help this mess out. Fact I'm sure they would have stumbled just as bad. This team looks pathetic and that is just the damn truth. Period.
                            So let's say we let this debackle go by the long gone side. But if they come out looking again like this one...................................................someone better insert the largest shoe possible up their ass,. hell didn't they practice against these guys all week?


                            • #15
                              Re: OK, convince me!

                              I hear a allot of it's just preseason but this team need to build confidents. You do that by playing well and there is a psychology effect of wining games even preseason games. If we were the Pats coming off a 18-1 season I would not be concern. But coming off a 3-13 season and playing bad last preseason than getting started like this. They got 3 more preseason games if the Chargers smack us down I guss I will hear it's only the second preseason game. Just play well rams thats all I want I don't care who is out there or who we are playing.


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                              • RamsFanSam
                                Where do we go from here?
                                by RamsFanSam
                                Hello, fellow Rams fans and others. I've got a few minutes between drinking the first pot of coffee and taking out my two dogs, so I thought I'd post a few thoughts on here to ask "what next?".

                                In my home, the Rams aren't just a football team. They are a way of life. When an eight year old girl would rather watch the Rams play a game they will probably lose instead of Hannah Montana, then a father knows he is raising a child right.

                                So, we have gone from 8-8, to 3-13, to 2-14. We have changed coaching staff more often than some people change their oil. We can't seem to find the answers. But still, on any given Sunday, the Rams can look like the meanest team in the league for 50 or 55 minutes...then somehow, they blow it in the last few minutes of play. When I look back on the Rams teams from the last few years, I remember noticing a slow, steady decline. Sure, there were some bright spots - SJ and Bulger both looked fantastic just two seasons ago, Bartell looked like the miracle man this year, OJ has shined, but overall, the intensity of the entire team has faded. Much of this had to do with injuries - it's hard to keep your runningback in the game and your quarterback upright if your O line isn't blocking anyone. Those rare moments when the O line did mesh provided a chance for a big play, but something seemed to always go wrong. Our WR's had WD-40 on their hands, or a route was run in the wrong direction, or the QB was so gun shy that he just wanted to get rid of the ball before getting hit.

                                This year, it was different. We had all the pieces of the puzzle, but the guy who was trying to put it together didn't know how they fit together. Four games into the season, he was let go. The entire team seemed to change overnight. The swagger was back. The players no longer looked afraid of contact. We won a game against a better Washington team and stunned the league. One week later, we made Dallas a laughingstock. (Kind of like the Eagles did last night...hahahahahahahaha!!!!) People actually began to notice us!

                                Of course, we all hoped this was the real Rams, but most of us were careful. We'd been burned before, but those guys in Blue and Gold sure looked like winners!

                                Reality set in way too soon. We couldn't get a "W" the rest of the season. It sounds strange, but until week 9, we actually had a chance to make the playoffs with a 2-6 record. Of course, we all know how that story ends.

                                But are the Rams really as bad as Detroit? No. Not even close. Think about it. Most of the last 12 games, we were within reach of a win for at least half of the game. More than once, we were within minutes of a win - then disaster struck. Each game had ONE pivotal moment that I wish we could take back and do over. Yesterday, it was the onside kick being called back - OK, two moments: the lack of coverage on that long run. Yet, the Rams did not give up - not until...
                                -12-29-2008, 08:28 AM
                              • RamsFanSam
                                Let's All Panic, Demand Firings, And Act Insane!!
                                by RamsFanSam
                                OMG! We just lost by 44 points! The sky just fell, and NO ONE was prepared for the Rams to lose this game!!! The world is ending!!! It's Armageddon!!!! Next thing you know, there will be a show about amateur singers on Fox!!!

                                OK, so I'm overreacting like 90% of you are. Step back and take a breath!

                                Haslett has a BIG job ahead of him. First, he has to take this "reject squad" Linehan put together, and get them to believe in themselves again. Some never gave up, but a lot of the guys did.

                                So where are the problems?

                                1. The O line - they have moments of brilliance, but for the most part, they ALL look pathetic.

                                2. Bulger. I was even yelling for him to be benched today - and you all know I rarely give up on our QB. Today, he looked as bad as Rosie O'Donnell in Spandex. I think he needs to sit until he remembers how to play like he did in 2006.

                                3. Our secondary. Clearly, half of these guys will be gone next year.

                                4. Our RB situation - we put all of our eggs in one basket. We just didn't know that basket had holes in it.

                                5. OUR FANS. We really need to look in the mirror. When you are at work, do you do better with a little belief and encouragement, or do you work better with people on your rear end all day long? Personally, if my co-workers and the hospital patients were only spouting negatives at me all day long, I'd be very vocal about things - then I'd tell them where to go, and it sure isn't going to be Tahiti. Seriously, I know it's hard to have faith in a team that sucks like a Hoover, but unless and until the fans change their attitude, the players won't want to change their attitude, either.

                                6. The coaching staff - seriously, guys, why do you insist on entering a marathon while you are still on crutches? Watch a movie called "What About Bob?". Then remember - BABY STEPS!!!

                                Rant over. Whine and gripe, then fall off what bandwagon is left, or offer some constructive discussion. It's up to you.
                                -11-09-2008, 02:09 PM
                              • viper
                                Alas..the sky is falling once again
                                by viper
                                It never ceases to amaze me, how quickly my fellow Ram's fans will turn on thier team, their players and their coach. The clouds of "doom and gloom" lye low above the legion once again. Again the naysayers have their day, to lay their spew upon the feet of the horns.

                                Ohhhh no, we've lost to the lowly dirty birds, Ohhh no, we've lost 6 out of the last 7 games, Ohh no, our captain has spoke out to the media about a few of his undisciplined guardians, possibly upsetting a few teammates, Oh no, our coach won't take responsibility and demand accountability from his youthful squires on the front lines, let alone the team as a whole.

                                Granted, the legion has seen better days. But, why is it that the masses choose to dwell on the "darker side" of things rather the hope of a brighter day to come. Is there not a chance, a hope that a brighter day shall dawn as a result of the upcoming offseason. This season is lost, no doubt. Who can say that this was not a distinct possibility, considering that we would be brandishing a new head coach, a new defensive coordinator, new offensive and defensive schemes, new free agents, untested rookies and a decimated offensive line. Add to that a previously dysfunctional run defense, pass defense and special teams for the last several years and what do you get? The "2006 St. Louis Rams!" Hooray! We got exactly what we "should have" expected. Or at least considered the possibility that it could be a tough year. Well guess what, it has turned out to be a "tough year." A downright bleak season.

                                But, ya know what, believe it or not, there has been improvement over last year. Our special teams have improved significantly in punting, coverage and returns. Our defense, is doing better in the turnover battle, our pass defense is improved and as hard as it may be to believe we do seem to be better at keeping opponents from scoring on us as much.

                                Its easy to throw fuel on the fire proclaiming how terrible things are when the going gets tough. The question is where are you when your team needs your support? Anybody can belittle a losing team...and their is no question we are losing right now. But, in doing so, are you any better than the opposing team's fans that come to diss on your team. I haven't seen too many "positive" threads lately about our team that make me feel like this is the Rams home.

                                I, personally, have unwavering faith in the positve attributes of the Rams! I choose not to wallow in the ever increasing muck and mire that seems to be prevalent around here lately. I agree that we are not where we want to be...far from it. But, I'm not going to participate in any "hanging" or "slop" parties or anything of the like.

                                Why can't we focus on the good things about our team or future prospects. Maybe that means a higher draft pick next year or a few well scouted free...
                                -12-05-2006, 11:53 PM
                              • Bar-bq
                                Next Season
                                by Bar-bq
                                I'm sorry, but those of you who have begun posting about the merits of "next season" have disheartened me. Really, who are you? We have fifteen weeks of football left to play, and you'd best be damn sure that win, lose or worse, I'll be hoping for the best for my team.

                                It was far from a promising start.

                                No pass blocking.
                                No run blocking.
                                No Leonard Little and Orlando Pace went down hard.
                                No effort players.

                                You've heard it all before.

                                On top of that, every first day pick from 2000-2004 is no longer with the team. Alston, Byrd, Wroten. Gone Gone Gone. Hill- still showing little development. Leonard- Looks like a luxury. Klop- Will be lucky to see much of the field.

                                Bad drafting equates to poor on-field success. There's no two ways about that.

                                But "next season"? come on! Tell me you don't bleed blue and gold. Tell me you didn't love every minute of the 1999 season. Tell me you didn't just jump upon the bandwagon for the good times.

                                You more than have the right to criticize. Be critical of anything you want. But to simply bypass the merits and demerits of an entire season in anticipation of greener pastures is absurdity. I guarantee you, without withstanding this season, without drawing and learning all we can from this season, next season will inevitably promulgate a return to the drawing board. again. The time is nigh to learn from what we've done wrong today. To correct what we can and struggle on with what we can't...until we can.

                                All the optimism has vanished. What it breeds is an atmosphere of losing. Players don't want to play for a losing franchise with no legitmiate backing behind them. The fans, after all, are willing to cast them aside after one game. Yes, there's a lack of effort. But we're not beyond hope. We're one game into the season. What point there is labeling yourself a "fan" of a franchise when you're willing simply to overlook the potential for success...for learning- for betterment THIS season?

                                There are fifteen games to go, and it is my opinion that we will win all fifteen of um (toot toot et al). And if we lose, it will be the next fourteen. Down to one. Because this dedication impels the opportunity to learn. To have the capacity to look forward to next week in light of the myriad of possibilities for success.

                                I most certainly do.
                                -09-08-2008, 02:07 AM
                              • rNemesis
                                HOW CLOSE IS THIS TEAM TO COMPETING?(VERY LONG)Please provide feedback
                                by rNemesis
                                First of all let me just say that these last few years have been VERY frustrating and embarassing for me as a RAM FAN and I'm sure you guys are just as disappointed. I have watched my team go from the greatest show on turf to, as a washington post columnist said after the redskins loss, " the most miserable mass on grass". MY main question here is , " How far are the rams from being a decent competitive rock solid team? Its a long way to go; it doesnt happen overnight but it shouldnt take FOREVER either.

                                But I am not gonna sit here and talk about that all night. We know what has happened. We know what we've become. 13 straight losses dating back to last season. 3-13 in 2007 and 2-14 in 2008. 5 wins in the last 30 or so games? ( not sure exactly the stats) That is horrible.

                                Let's go back year by year as to how we finished record wise.
                                In the 1990's we were bad. But so were other teams which are now good today. But if you look at our 90's record to others, you will see that we were bad most of those years. Other teams had bad years too during the 90's but it was only really the lions, bengals, cardinals and saints. That should show you how bad of a team the Rams are. We never finished over 7 wins from 1990 up until 1999, which was our superbowl year. Which now tells me that the Rams have been bad, are now bad, and I hope we dont continue to be bad. But lately one has to believe that that is the penalty for our actions.

                                2000- 10-6 DECENT
                                2001- 14-2 ( excellent; we beat the pats that season but lost in the SB to the same :|)
                                2002- 7-9 Not bad
                                2003- 12-4 excellent
                                2004- 8-8 not bad; competitive
                                2005- I think we were 7-9 or 6-10 cant remember
                                2006- 8-8
                                2007- 3-13 horrible
                                2008- 2-14 lousy

                                I am not surprised at how we have fallen so badly. What I cant seem to understand is how fast we have fallen as such. How come we havent been able to stop the bleeding and bounce back like other teams have seemed to?

                                So tell me guys. How far off is this team from competing? Well, I look at the league and I have noticed that most of the other teams have playmakers in a lot of key positions. Why is that? Because they do a great job of DRAFTING PLAYERS THAT FIT INTO THEIR SCHEME WELL. We on the other hand have not done that lately. We have drafted players that have done well IN THEIR SCHEME and so it didnt matter to the previous regime ( Jay ZYgmunt ) if they fit or not the point was they wanted them so much that they drafted them regardless of their college scheme and success. In the era since Martz left, we have drafted the likes of busts ( or so they appear to be) like Tye Hill, Adam Carriker, Claude Wroten, Fakhir Brown, etc. The list goes on and on.

                                THIS HAS REALLY HURT THIS ORGANIZATION SO MUCH THAT IT IS REARING ITS UGLY HEAD NOW. Bad drafting has put us in such a talentless hole that...
                                -09-29-2009, 07:43 PM