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Three types of players...

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  • Three types of players...

    Usually we think of players as either being good or bad, but let me propose something a little different in light of what's going on with the Rams. There are players who show up and do their part, those who are decent players but a bad fit for whatever reason, and those who aren't really competing.

    The first group consists of those players who are trying hard, living up to their potential, and generally "aren't a problem"; maybe they're stars, maybe they just do their part.

    The second group consists of players who have talent and may even be trying hard, but just can't contribute because of reasons beyond their control. Some of these reasons may be injuries, a bad fit for the schemes, poor use by the coaching staff, or even just bad chemistry.

    The third group are those players who can't get it done. Here there are two subgroups. Type A, otherwise known as we can call it the Dominque Byrd Player Type (DBPT) has the talent, but cannot get it done on the field because of their attitude, their effort, or their perpetual boneheadedness. Type B, otherwise known as Brian Leonard Player Type (BLPT), just can't get it done because they're not good enough. Maybe they're not bad guys and they have some skills, but they aren't really NFL caliber players.

    Some examples of what I'm talking about:
    Group #1 -- Ron Bartel, Donnie Avery
    Group #2 -- Orlando Pace, Will Witherspoon
    Group #3, Type A -- Richie Incognito
    Group #3, Type B -- Jason Craft

    Now in addition to needing more players in Group 1 then the other two groups, I think its imperative that your most talented players be in Group #1 for your team to be competitive. So let me ask you these questions:

    1. Where do you place the Rams most highly paid players in this scheme? Bulger, Jackson, Pace, Holt, etc. Be honest.

    2. Do we have too many players in Group #2 (which is mainly a coaching problem) or in Group #3 (which is mainly a management problem)? Which players are you talking about?

    Sorry, but the professor in me came out while thinking about how crummy the Rams are. Still...maybe this will be worth talking about. Or not.

Related Topics


  • Ram Dragoon
    Enough carrot--its time to break out the Stick
    by Ram Dragoon
    Obviously, the carrot isn't working, its time to break out the stick.

    The Rams need to hold a secret team meeting with management present and put it bluntly to the are now playing for your JOBS. In the mean time there are a host of other released players in the NFL that can't be any worst then what the Rams have now. And just maybe someone hungry for a NFL career will arise.

    To that end the Rams need to sideline key assets and use them sparingly. With the O-line, just state it to them since they can't get the job done, there is little point risking injury to those the team aims to have next year.

    Right now it seems too many players think management will stand behind them and place the blame on the coaching staff...perhaps if the players see management standing totally behind the staff, perhaps it might wake a few players up
    -10-05-2009, 06:07 AM
  • RamsInfiniti
    And when the smoke finally settles ....
    by RamsInfiniti
    What are we going to see from this Ram's team?

    I guess this is a pre-camp prognosis of some sort. I typically try to look at the season each year, and I usually come up with a semi-inflated, overhyped outlook of the Rams. This is simply because I love the Rams. You always make things you love out to be better than they actually are ...

    Well, with this new, and improved, version of the Rams, I don't feel like I can make an accurate assessment. Honestly, I think this team can end up with anywhere from 4 to 10 wins. And there are a variety of reasons I believe this ...

    First, I've indicated time and time again that I am a firm supported of the theory that there is not much gap in talent from team to team across the NFL. When we talk about talent, we talk about the physical and mental ability of players to be successful and make plays. Just because a player has talent does not mean he will be successful in the NFL, it simply means he has a shot. There is a reason there is an NFL combine each year. It is to see which players can physically, and to some extent mentally, cut it in the NFL. From team to team, across the board, the talent is pretty similar ...

    What distinguishes how the talent translates on the field? Well, in the short term you have to look at experience, morale, the "system", the coaches. In the long term, you have to look at how well such players adapt to change, how versatile they are, whether they can stay healthy, whether they are content with where they are, who they are, and who they might be ...

    So what are the major problems with the Rams of 2009? Simply lack of inexperience from my point of view, at least at most positions. Lack of morale at others ...

    Look at what we have. A new upbeat coaching staff with a vision of a modern WCO and physical defense. A QB that is smart and accurate, a protypical freak of a RB, quick, agile fresh WR's, an established TE, a strong young offensive and defensive line, hungry young linebackers, world class speed and nice size in the secondary ...

    So what's the problem? A QB lacking morale after the beating he has taken, injuries to that chisled freak of a running back, questionable depth behind him, WR's with little or no experience, no proven depth at TE, an offensive line that will be learning one another, undersized defensive line that will have to learn to be creative to take advantage of opportunities, only one proven linebacker, and defensives back that have tons of talent but all seem to be missing "it" with the exception of Bartell and Atogwe (wait to see on Butler) ...

    So, what does this mean? The talent is there, no doubt in my mind. So what does this coaching staff have to do? It's three-fold in my opinion ...

    1. Make the players forget - Make them forget they are losers, start them off on a level playing field. Get them...
    -07-29-2009, 10:35 AM
  • AvengerRam
    Is Waufle awful... or is it me?
    by AvengerRam
    When I watch Hard Knocks, I cringe every time that Mike Waufle is featured. They guy comes across as a foul-mouthed, borderline abusive, wanna-be drill sergeant. He alone gives the show its TV-MA rating.

    As a 48 year old who has spent his adult life working in professional offices, I don't get this method of motivating people. I would never use such a method, and if it were ever used with me, my only reaction would be to update my resume and start looking for a new job.

    That said... I'm not sure I'm qualified to evaluate whether this method might be effective. I've never played organized football, and I certainly don't claim know what makes 20something professional athletes tick. Perhaps Waufle's fear/intimidation approach is what these guys need after growing up on a pedestal. Perhaps the biggest impediment to success on the field is complacency, and Waufle's method is on point.

    Ultimately, as a fan, I'd have to say that this part of Hard Knocks does not resonate with me. I like having insight into the team's preparations, but maybe this is too "inside" for my taste. I'd liken it to a Food Network show displaying the slaughtering of a cow in addition to the cooking of the steak.

    I'm curious how others react to this part of the show. Maybe I'm on an island on this one. Maybe not....
    -08-24-2016, 08:06 AM
  • AvengerRam_old
    Sometimes, its all about getting good games from mediocre players.
    by AvengerRam_old
    As fans, its hard to resist the temptation to look at a trouble spot on the roster and ask "can't we sign someone" or "can't we trade for someone."

    In reality, though, its just not that simple.

    Though there are exceptions, typically starter-quality players are not sitting on their sofa at this time of the year. Likewise, most teams don't have such depth that they are willing to trade high quality players without a king's ransom in return.

    So what do you do?

    Well, as Dick Vermiel once said, you rally around the guys you have, and you play good football.

    I think that's how Jeff Fisher is approaching the O line problem. He recognizes that Jackie Slater, Orlando Pace and Dennis Harrah aren't coming through that door.

    We have to suit up the guys we have, create a game plan that plays to their strengths, and execute.

    Next year, hopefully we'll have more talent on the O line.

    For now, though, there is a battle to be fought, and we have to line up the guys we have with confidence, and with a plan.

    And... hope.
    -09-27-2012, 07:39 AM
  • RamsInfiniti
    Interesting perspective on why injuries seem to be more widespread these days?
    by RamsInfiniti
    Hey all. I am stuck in Utah on business, so I've had some time to just sit around and ponder. Me and a buddy were sitting around talking football last night, and got into a dicussion about why there seems to be so many injuries around the league these days. Thinking about it, injuries really do seem to be more prominent than ever. I see player after player going down in training camp and in preseason, and it's really startling. I thought back over the years, and really couldn't remember this happening in the 90's ...

    So, what is the cause for the increase of serious injuries? Well, I came across an article actually concerning pro wrestling. This guys, of course, are pumped up on steroids, and train every day to look as good as they can. It's a part of the business: they need to look good to be a star since it is essentially a soap opera. However, the stronger and more ripped they get, the tighter and shorter their muscles get, and you see many injuries to pro wrestlers like torn quads and triceps, biceps, and pec muscles. They overtrain and become so stiff that they no longer have the range of motion they did before ...

    So, what does this have to do with football? It's the same concept. Today's athletes feel they have to train, train, and train more to get their combine type skill numbers to insane levels. They want to have 3% body fat, and be faster than a rocket. Do these things equate to a football player being successful? Absolutely not. Football is the consummate team game. You have to be smart to play this sport. Sometimes, the greatest professionals are not the greatest athletes, look at Joe Montana and Jerry Rice for instance ...

    Ultimately, I think the evolution of free agency has contributed to this. Player's always feel they need to get the edge on another guy to get the money they want. They train so hard, even obsessively, to the thing to where they are no longer athletes, they are rock hard machines. However, becoming rock hard can sometimes make you fragile. These guys work out all summer long, get ripped, come into camp, put on pads, make the work move, and blow a knee or pop a hamstring, because they haven't been training for football: they have been training to look like Mr. Olympia. They say image is everything ...

    Think about the 70s, 80, and even 90s. Player's back then didn't look like they did today. They were stout and big and strong, but not ripped like bodybuilders. Today, athletes have so many supplements to help them get stronger and faster. This makes their bodies dependent on chemicals and they become machines, machines enclosed with ticking time bombs. Maybe I am just getting old, but I never remembered players looking like total freaks, at least not from a physical standpoint, in the 80s and 90s. Nor do I remember them dropping like flies due to injuries. Really, it was commonplace back then for players to come to camp completely out shape. They would work their...
    -08-21-2008, 03:17 PM