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  • Cornerbacks

    I know our Pass rush isn't great, but you can't have a great pass rush if the opposing QB can find someone open within 2-4 seconds on every pass play.

    We have, what 1 sack after two games? Leonard Little is supposed to be a great pass rusher and I think he still is, but the secondary (Corners) can't cover long enough often to force any coverage sacks.

    Are there any big name corners available via free-agency next year?

  • #2
    Re: Cornerbacks

    If you asked me what was the bigger problem pass rush or pass defense I would say by far the pass rush...Wade has played really well the first two games, Bartell a bit iffy for the #1 but not terrible and Otogwe and Butler have been pretty decent in my opinion.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Cornerbacks

      Originally posted by npow81 View Post
      If you asked me what was the bigger problem pass rush or pass defense I would say by far the pass rush...Wade has played really well the first two games, Bartell a bit iffy for the #1 but not terrible and Otogwe and Butler have been pretty decent in my opinion.
      Uh, no. This is a common misconception. Wade and Bartell, even at their best are not shutdown corners. People are running wide open, or just open enough within 1-4 seconds from the snap. You can't expect your pass rush to get there that fast.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Cornerbacks

        Originally posted by btimsah View Post
        Uh, no. This is a common misconception. Wade and Bartell, even at their best are not shutdown corners. People are running wide open, or just open enough within 1-4 seconds from the snap. You can't expect your pass rush to get there that fast.
        Really, an honest question? Do you even watch the games? I have already pointed out a few reasons why I think you don't. Never, ever in my history of watching football have I seen/heard somebody blame a lack of pass rush on lackluster play from defensive backs. Amazing ...

        If you did watch the games, and actually paid attention, you would see what is going on with our pass defense. There was moderate improvement from week 1 to week 2.

        Go watch the games, or watch them again, then we'll talk about this. Wade and Bartell are doing a fine job together ...

        As for Bartell, he was as good a "shutdown" corner as any in the league last year. He's been ok this year, early in the season, new scheme ...

        Wade is in his first season as a starter. He has three passes defensed in two games, amongst the league leaders. How can you make an assumption about him?
        Last edited by RamsInfiniti; -09-24-2009, 01:49 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Cornerbacks

          Originally posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
          Really, an honest question? Do you even watch the games? I have already pointed out a few reasons why I think you don't. Never, ever in my history of watching football have I seen/heard somebody blame a lack of pass rush on lackluster play from defensive backs. Amazing ...

          If you did watch the games, and actually paid attention, you would see what is going on with our pass defense. There was moderate improvement from week 1 to week 2.

          Go watch the games, or watch them again, then we'll talk about this. Wade and Bartell are doing a fine job together ...

          As for Bartell, he was as good a "shutdown" corner as any in the league last year. He's been ok this year, early in the season, new scheme ...

          Wade is in his first season as a starter. He has three passes defensed in two games, amongst the league leaders. How can you make an assumption about him?
          Oh, so now we have one of the top shutdown corners in the league? Wow. Infinity, it's amazing what you will come up with in order to find some way to ridicule and disagree with any and everything I say. You're so transparent. We have the 25th rated pass defense in the league, so Do you watch the games? Oh let me quess, we have top corners but their only rated 25th in pass defense because of everybody else, EXCEPT OUR CORNERS? You live in a real fantasy land. It's the same with Bulger, blame everybody else but him. And finally; If you can't understand the concept of a coverage sack, then I don't think it matters how much football you watch.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Cornerbacks

            In two games, the Rams have allowed only 2 completions of 20 or more yards (21 and 24) to WRs.

            That tells me that the CBs are mostly giving up the dink and dunk type of throws. The only way you can prevent those types of throws is to get in the QB's face... something the Rams have not done.

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            • #7
              Re: Cornerbacks

              The rams rank 8th in covering #1 wrs and 11th in covering #2 wrs. I think those are pretty good numbers, especially considering we have no pass rush. Our problem is covering te's and rb's, which are corners do not do. :|

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              • #8
                Re: Cornerbacks

                Originally posted by AvengerRam View Post
                In two games, the Rams have allowed only 2 completions of 20 or more yards (21 and 24) to WRs.

                That tells me that the CBs are mostly giving up the dink and dunk type of throws. The only way you can prevent those types of throws is to get in the QB's face... something the Rams have not done.
                Yes, they've run mostly cover 2 man which takes away the deep ball and to be fair they have covered those much better than they have last year.

                But see, this is what always happens to our defense. In years past our defensive coordinators would keep going from one thing to another to figure out how to get that magical mix of coverage and pass rush.

                They blitz, exposing our horrible corners. They sit back and pick us apart exposing our weak defensive line AND corners. We go back and forth with that routinely. I think Spags is gonna run a bend but don't break defense because he almost has too. He doesn't have the corners to leave them on islands which means we can't bring a bunch of heat without risking getting burnt.

                I hope we address our corner issue, but as I said in the other thread the defensive line needs help too. Its just odd that the corner position get's far too ignored when talking about our pass defense. Dink and dunk passes must be stopped on occasion too...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Cornerbacks

                  Please keep this discussion civil. Posts that do not do so will be deleted.


                  Originally posted by btimsah View Post
                  Are there any big name corners available via free-agency next year?
                  Dunta Robinson (Texans), Marlin Jackson (Colts), Ellis Hobbs (Eagles), Nick Harper (Titans), Walt Harris (*****), Richard Marshall (Panthers), Leigh Bodden (Patriots), and William Gay (Steelers) are some of the more recognizable names in the secondary scheduled for free agency in 2010.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Cornerbacks

                    Our LBers covering TEs and RBs out of the backfield are a FAR larger problem than our DBs. The DBs have played well so bashing them is just silly at this point. I don't see where you are getting (other than just being a troll) that receivers are wide open, the stats just don't prove it. During the Washington game the QB was allowed entirely to much time in the pocket.

                    Oh and your argument about the rank of the pass defense and then blaming the DBs is silly since you've already stated the pass rush is non-existent but refused to say it contributed to the performance against the pass. Your argument is all over the place.

                    Oh and the Rams aren't running mostly cover 2. Please. Pay attention.

                    I'm giving this a 98.6% chance of just being a troll wanting attention because he hasn't watched the games.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Cornerbacks

                      Originally posted by RebelYell View Post
                      Our LBers covering TEs and RBs out of the backfield are a FAR larger problem than our DBs.
                      I tend to agree with this. It's interesting that two games into the season, the leading receiver in both games for the opposition has been the tight end.

                      I think for only having one sack through two games, our defensive backs have done a solid job. Remember, this wasn't exactly an area of strength on the team to begin with. Many were expecting Tye Hill to be a starter this season, and he gets traded out of no where and Wade becomes a starter.

                      I don't think Bartell or Wade are shutdown corners, but you don't have to have shutdown corners to be effective. I think with a more consistent pass rush, Bartell and Wade are talented enough to get the job done more often than not.

                      And I think if history would lean us one way or another about how Spags is going to build the Rams, he'd probably like to build a strong disruptive front rather than stock up on amazing corners. I don't remember anyone calling Sam Madison, Aaron Ross, or Kevin Dockery the game's best when New York won the Super Bowl in 2007.

                      One area I do think this defense needs to improve upon is their blitzing. I think the game against Washington offered some good examples; it just doesn't seem like we get penetration and pressure on a lot of our blitzes, and when you blitz but don't get that kind of disruption, then yeah, there will be holes in your coverage that other teams can exploit.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Cornerbacks

                        Originally posted by btimsah View Post
                        Yes, they've run mostly cover 2 man which takes away the deep ball and to be fair they have covered those much better than they have last year.

                        But see, this is what always happens to our defense. In years past our defensive coordinators would keep going from one thing to another to figure out how to get that magical mix of coverage and pass rush.

                        They blitz, exposing our horrible corners. They sit back and pick us apart exposing our weak defensive line AND corners. We go back and forth with that routinely. I think Spags is gonna run a bend but don't break defense because he almost has too. He doesn't have the corners to leave them on islands which means we can't bring a bunch of heat without risking getting burnt.

                        I hope we address our corner issue, but as I said in the other thread the defensive line needs help too. Its just odd that the corner position get's far too ignored when talking about our pass defense. Dink and dunk passes must be stopped on occasion too...
                        If we're running cover-2 man, and we're in the top half of the league in passes completed to #1 and #2 WRs, why are you focusing your attention on the CBs? I don't understand. Our main two CBs will be covering their main two WRs, and the rest of the coverage duties rest on the rest of the defense. The dink and dunk passes are not Wade or Bartell's fault.

                        That's just "if" we're running a cover-2 man. That doesn't even seem like the defense we're running.
                        Last edited by Milan; -09-24-2009, 03:45 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Cornerbacks

                          Hmmm. During the past two games, I've noticed that:

                          There are a lot of plays in which are defensive backs were giving our d-line more than plenty of time to sack the qb, but our d-line couldn't do it. Our line was shut down, which is why sometimes our secondary looks "bad". I'm not saying our secondary is a shutdown machine, because they're not, they are far from it actually, but they do have their moments, and our d-line must give them some help.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Cornerbacks

                            Originally posted by Milan View Post
                            If we're running cover-2 man, and we're in the top half of the league in passes completed to #1 and #2 WRs, why are you focusing your attention on the CBs? I don't understand. Our main two CBs will be covering their main two WRs, and the rest of the coverage duties rest on the rest of the defense. The dink and dunk passes are not Wade or Bartell's fault.

                            That's just "if" we're running a cover-2 man. That doesn't even seem like the defense we're running.
                            Again, I doubt OP watches the game, or has any idea what the scheme is ...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Cornerbacks

                              Originally posted by btimsah View Post
                              Oh, so now we have one of the top shutdown corners in the league? Wow. Infinity, it's amazing what you will come up with in order to find some way to ridicule and disagree with any and everything I say. You're so transparent. We have the 25th rated pass defense in the league, so Do you watch the games? Oh let me quess, we have top corners but their only rated 25th in pass defense because of everybody else, EXCEPT OUR CORNERS? You live in a real fantasy land. It's the same with Bulger, blame everybody else but him. And finally; If you can't understand the concept of a coverage sack, then I don't think it matters how much football you watch.
                              Nobody said we had a "shutdown corner". I don't even know what that term means. Do you consider Champ Bailey a "shutdown corner". Statistically one of the worst corners in the league last year. How about Cromartie? I am sure you were all over his jock in 2007, explaining how we should have drafted him instead of Hill. Then, his pass rush dissapeared last year, and he was horrible ...

                              I ridicule and disagree with your arguments because they are severely flawed ...

                              I would venture to believe that 10% or less of sacks in this league are coverage sacks. The rules are designed to give the WR the advantage. Besides Ashoagmuaoghaga in Oakland, who is superhuman apparently, there are few "shutdown" corners left in this league. Such players don't truly exist ...

                              Comment

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                              • RamsSB99
                                Ron Bartell?
                                by RamsSB99
                                How do you guys think Bartell is doing? I thought the first game they really went after him in the passing game. I did not get to watch the second game but I listened to a good part of it. The first game I thought he was giving to big of a cushion and the receiver could make a catch in just about any part of the field. I have been looking for stats on thrown at versus passes defensed but have been unable to find any on Bartell. It seemed like he was thrown at several times in both games and had just 1 pass defense in each game.
                                -09-25-2009, 06:04 PM
                              • Curly Horns
                                Ron Bartell
                                by Curly Horns
                                Give me 10 more like him on defense and can the rest.

                                This guy has heart and he is very, very, FAST !!

                                Nice find Armey, don't care what Martz says about you....


                                :up:
                                -11-21-2005, 08:06 AM
                              • RamWraith
                                Young CBs Ready for Roles
                                by RamWraith
                                Thursday, December 6, 2007
                                By Nick Wagoner
                                Senior Writer

                                It was around the holiday season last year that the Rams finally saw the breakthrough of cornerback Ron Bartell. Shifted into the nickel cornerback role, Bartell played his best football at this level and finished with two interceptions in the season finale against Minnesota.

                                Bartell has never doubted his ability to be an effective cornerback at the NFL level. After enduring two years of bouncing between corner and safety and never really finding steady work at either spot, Bartell has finally settled into a role for the Rams.

                                Or so he thought. Just when Bartell was making his impact as the team’s nickel cornerback and even working as a hybrid linebacker rushing the quarterback in certain situations, Bartell is being asked to take over the starting corner job on the outside.

                                With the season ending wrist surgery starter Tye Hill underwent late Monday night, Bartell has been handed the keys to the starting job. But with opportunity comes the chance to prove he belongs, again.

                                “I’ve always had the same ability,” Bartell said. “I just think the opportunity has come a lot more often. When you have these opportunities week-in and week-out, you have no choice but get better. If I got worse, I wouldn’t be here. I’m just more confident and I know the defense a lot better. I know where I’ll be playing instead of shuffling back and forth like last year.”

                                Bartell will hold down the outside job for the rest of the season after Hill was placed on injured reserve, ending his season. Of course, starting on the outside is nothing new to Bartell, even this year.

                                Bartell started in one cornerback spot to open the season because of the four-game suspension to starter Fakhir Brown. Bartell fared well in those games, coming up with 22 tackles, a sack and two passes defended.

                                Upon Brown’s return, Bartell moved to the other side to replace Hill, who had suffered a back injury. He made nine tackles with two passes defended in that pair of games.

                                All told, Bartell has 55 tackles with a sack, an interception, a forced fumble and a fumble recovery this season. Essentially, Bartell has been a third starter for the Rams and his performance when given the opportunity has inspired plenty of confidence in coach Scott Linehan.

                                “He’s played very well for us all year,” Linehan said. “He started, with Fakhir’s suspension, four games. He has basically moved around and played in a number of spots. He’ll be back in that nickel spot and he’ll be back in action at corner. Ron’s become a really solid player for us that we can count on. He has experience now, so there’s no real hesitation or concern for us that he will be able to go out there and perform very well for us.”

                                Although Bartell has started at nickel the past two weeks, he hasn’t technically started...
                                -12-07-2007, 04:32 AM
                              • Curly Horns
                                How many millions did Bartell get?
                                by Curly Horns
                                Ugh!

                                Whatever the amount......it's yet to pay dividends!


                                :helmet:
                                -09-27-2009, 01:39 PM
                              • rams_fan_4_life
                                Is bartell really going to be missed?
                                by rams_fan_4_life
                                Listen guys are 57 tackles,3 interceptions and 1 fumble recovery worth 8 million a year? (2 of those interceptions came in the 2nd to last game of the year aginst the ***** powerfull offense)..i say let someone else pay him that much..
                                -02-28-2009, 07:50 AM
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