Ron Bartell?

[RamsSB99]

How do you guys think Bartell is doing? I thought the first game they really went after him in the passing game. I did not get to watch the second game but I listened to a good part of it. The first game I thought he was giving to big of a cushion and the receiver could make a catch in just about any part of the field. I have been looking for stats on thrown at versus passes defensed but have been unable to find any on Bartell. It seemed like he was thrown at several times in both games and had just 1 pass defense in each game.

[RamsInfiniti]

Re: Ron Bartell?

They are working out holes in the schemes. Bartell has played fine. Both corners are giving too much gap up front, but they'll get it just right once they get comfortable ....

Passes defensed are a tricky statistic. CB's like Nmandi in Oakland get very few PD's because balls aren't thrown their way. Remember, a pass defensed is when a player PHYSICALLY bats down the ball ...

The Rams have not given up a pass play greater than 24 yards ...

Look at critical plays Bartell is making, like sniffing out the trick pass play against Washington ...

Look at the hustle he is displaying, like giving it his all to run down Julius Jones on the long run in the Seahawks game, similar to what he did against Michael Turner last game. He came from all the way across the field, and almost got to him ...

How about the forced fumble in the Redskins game? That was all about effort ...

Trust me, when the pass rush comes around, and Bartell and Wade find that comfort zone, we are going to be just fine.

Look at the types of passes they are throwing. Neither team has tried to thrown on top of Bartell or at Bartell in these games. They've been throwing in front of him. Safe throws ...

[RamsSB99]

Re: Ron Bartell?

They are working out holes in the schemes. Bartell has played fine. Both corners are giving too much gap up front, but they'll get it just right once they get comfortable ....

Passes defensed are a tricky statistic. CB's like Nmandi in Oakland get very few PD's because balls aren't thrown their way. Remember, a pass defensed is when a player PHYSICALLY bats down the ball ...

The Rams have not given up a pass play greater than 24 yards ...

Look at critical plays Bartell is making, like sniffing out the trick pass play against Washington ...

Look at the hustle he is displaying, like giving it his all to run down Julius Jones on the long run in the Seahawks game, similar to what he did against Michael Turner last game. He came from all the way across the field, and almost got to him ...

How about the forced fumble in the Redskins game? That was all about effort ...

Trust me, when the pass rush comes around, and Bartell and Wade find that comfort zone, we are going to be just fine.

Look at the types of passes they are throwing. Neither team has tried to thrown on top of Bartell or at Bartell in these games. They've been throwing in front of him. Safe throws ...

All those things may be great but he will still be considered a bad CB this year if he cant stop the receivers from catching the ball. If he does all the things listed but they throw 10 times at him with the WR getting 8 receptions the other things don't matter he will be considered bad. I don't believe that those are the numbers yet but he has had several balls thrown his way in each game with only one pass defense. He needs to be able to stop the short and intermediate passes not just the long ball which they have not tried much yet. I agree Bartell has good speed to catch up with runners going for big gains but that is not why you put a player on the field. Bartell had questionable hip movement going into last year and gave up to much seperation. He looked like he corrected most of that last year lets hope he can return to form. I have looked but could not find the number of times they threw at Bartell and the completion percentage.

[RamsInfiniti]

Re: Ron Bartell?

All those things may be great but he will still be considered a bad CB this year if he cant stop the receivers from catching the ball. If he does all the things listed but they throw 10 times at him with the WR getting 8 receptions the other things don't matter he will be considered bad. I don't believe that those are the numbers yet but he has had several balls thrown his way in each game with only one pass defense. He needs to be able to stop the short and intermediate passes not just the long ball which they have not tried much yet. I agree Bartell has good speed to catch up with runners going for big gains but that is not why you put a player on the field. Bartell had questionable hip movement going into last year and gave up to much seperation. He looked like he corrected most of that last year lets hope he can return to form. I have looked but could not find the number of times they threw at Bartell and the completion percentage.

Again, do you understand what a "Pass Defensed" is? If a ball is thrown at a CB, and its incomplete, it's not a "Pass Defensed" unless the defender physically swats the ball away or picks it off....

The short and intermediate completions are a result of the current scheme, which will tighten up ....

And what do you mean that hustle is not why players are on the field?

[molar_pistol]

Re: Ron Bartell?

i think it's a mixture of scheme and not being able to pressure the opposing qb. he's been playing it a bit safe it seems trying to not give up the big play, which as was mentioned has led to easy completions on comeback routes and what have you. i think the secondary will improve naturally over the season, and if we can find a way to bring pressure it will help even more.

[RamsSB99]

Re: Ron Bartell?

Again, do you understand what a "Pass Defensed" is? If a ball is thrown at a CB, and its incomplete, it's not a "Pass Defensed" unless the defender physically swats the ball away or picks it off....

The short and intermediate completions are a result of the current scheme, which will tighten up ....

And what do you mean that hustle is not why players are on the field?

You don’t need to be insulting to others as I have seen in other posts and try to talk down to people. I do know what pass defense means. I understand football and I said I tried to find stats on thrown at and completion percentage, which to me is a better barometer. But I was unable to find those stats for the first two games this year on Bartell. Now if you are so much damn smarter then everyone else here why don't you provide us with those stats instead of trying to insult peoples intelligence.

I never said hustle is not why players are on the field. What I was saying was that Bartell or any other player is not put on the field to run down a player after a 50-yard gain. If that were the case we would just load up the team with track stars. Bartell is on the field to do is defend against the passing game. If he ever proves he can’t defend the pass he will be gone and his speed will not save him. Him having catch up speed on the big play that you mentioned is a nice bonus but it has nothing at all to do with why he is on the field.

[Nick]

Re: Ron Bartell?

RamsSB99, your previous response did come across as if there was still some confusion about the passes defensed statistic. I don't think RamsInfiniti said anything particularly condescending to you, but simply repeated what the stat actually measures as a means of explaining why he hasn't accumulated more in that category.

That being said, let's all please try to keep the conversation civil and respectful to avoid further moderator involvement.

[RamsInfiniti]

Re: Ron Bartell?

You don’t need to be insulting to others as I have seen in other posts and try to talk down to people. I do know what pass defense means. I understand football and I said I tried to find stats on thrown at and completion percentage, which to me is a better barometer. But I was unable to find those stats for the first two games this year on Bartell. Now if you are so much damn smarter then everyone else here why don't you provide us with those stats instead of trying to insult peoples intelligence.

I never said hustle is not why players are on the field. What I was saying was that Bartell or any other player is not put on the field to run down a player after a 50-yard gain. If that were the case we would just load up the team with track stars. Bartell is on the field to do is defend against the passing game. If he ever proves he can’t defend the pass he will be gone and his speed will not save him. Him having catch up speed on the big play that you mentioned is a nice bonus but it has nothing at all to do with why he is on the field.

As Nick stated, I am not sure what your issue is what me, nor can I comprehend what you were trying to write in the negative rep you gave me. Because in your statement you say you understand football, in the negative rep you gave me, you said you DO NOT understand football ...

Your response clearly implied that you feel Bartell should have more passes defensed, and since he doesn't, that he might have a bunch of passes completed against him. 45 passes that were thrown in Bartell's direction last year were incomplete, and he had 19 passes defensed. Again, the two don't necessarily go together. A DB can force a bad incompletion without the ball ever getting near him ...

IMO, there is little value in examining the passing statistics against Bartell at this point of the season. Again, it's a new scheme, they are finding a comfort zone, and there is little to no pass rush. Bartell seems to be doing a fine job of keeping receiving threats from getting behind him. There is alot of cushion. For all you now, at this point, this is what is being requested of the DB's. We're not on the sideline, it's hard to tell what they are trying to accomplish ...

Your comment about Bartell's overwhelming hustle not being a reason he is on the field is baffling to me. That very type of effort, running players down from behind, that heart, has alot to do with the confidence that a coach has in a player. It's that hustle that will allow Bartell to pick off passes, knock down passes, cause fumbles, stop long gains. There is much more to a DB than passes defensed. You have to be a sure tackler, and you have to have range. As John Madden said "90 percent of football is half mental".

I am sorry you are dissapointed in Bartell, but I am not sure what you are looking for at this point in the season. They are learning and starting to mesh. Several new players on that defense ...

[RamsSB99]

Re: Ron Bartell?

As Nick stated, I am not sure what your issue is what me, nor can I comprehend what you were trying to write in the negative rep you gave me. Because in your statement you say you understand football, in the negative rep you gave me, you said you DO NOT understand football ...

Your response clearly implied that you feel Bartell should have more passes defensed, and since he doesn't, that he might have a bunch of passes completed against him. 45 passes that were thrown in Bartell's direction last year were incomplete, and he had 19 passes defensed. Again, the two don't necessarily go together. A DB can force a bad incompletion without the ball ever getting near him ...

IMO, there is little value in examining the passing statistics against Bartell at this point of the season. Again, it's a new scheme, they are finding a comfort zone, and there is little to no pass rush. Bartell seems to be doing a fine job of keeping receiving threats from getting behind him. There is alot of cushion. For all you now, at this point, this is what is being requested of the DB's. We're not on the sideline, it's hard to tell what they are trying to accomplish ...

Your comment about Bartell's overwhelming hustle not being a reason he is on the field is baffling to me. That very type of effort, running players down from behind, that heart, has alot to do with the confidence that a coach has in a player. It's that hustle that will allow Bartell to pick off passes, knock down passes, cause fumbles, stop long gains. There is much more to a DB than passes defensed. You have to be a sure tackler, and you have to have range. As John Madden said "90 percent of football is half mental".

I am sorry you are dissapointed in Bartell, but I am not sure what you are looking for at this point in the season. They are learning and starting to mesh. Several new players on that defense ...

I never said in the negative rep I gave you that I know nothing about football. I said you know nothing about football which is what you keep trying to tell other people and then turn around and make garbage posts. I never said hustle you said hustle. But again if a player does not do his primary responsibility which for a CB is defending the pass then it don't matter if he runs down a player after a big play (like you said) and gives it his all. If he cant do what his position demands he will find a seat on the bench or be out of the NFL. I don't know what you don't understand about that. I am not saying that Bartell has proven he cant pass defend. What I am sayinig without you reading all types of crap into it is hustle and running down a guy on a 50 yard gain does not get you in and keep you in the starting lineup. Its being able to do the job the position requires. As for your stats last year they provid nothing to this post which is asking how he is doing this year which is what I have been asking about from the begining. I asked you to provide the thrown at and completion percentage for this year.

[molar_pistol]

Re: Ron Bartell?

I never said in the negative rep I gave you that I know nothing about football. I said you know nothing about football which is what you keep trying to tell other people and then turn around and make garbage posts. I never said hustle you said hustle. But again if a player does not do his primary responsibility which for a CB is defending the pass then it don't matter if he runs down a player after a big play (like you said) and gives it his all. If he cant do what his position demands he will find a seat on the bench or be out of the NFL. I don't know what you don't understand about that. I am not saying that Bartell has proven he cant pass defend. What I am sayinig without you reading all types of crap into it is hustle and running down a guy on a 50 yard gain does not get you in and keep you in the starting lineup. Its being able to do the job the position requires. As for your stats last year they provid nothing to this post which is asking how he is doing this year which is what I have been asking about from the begining. I asked you to provide the thrown at and completion percentage for this year.

you're way too focused on the small picture..bartell is fine, it takes 11 guys to play defense not 1.

[RamsInfiniti]

Re: Ron Bartell?

you're way too focused on the small picture..bartell is fine, it takes 11 guys to play defense not 1.

There is no point in trying to convince the poster of such ...

This is not the first thread where the poster has tried to over analyze the statistics of a player after two games ...

What a concept though that you have, 11 people playing defense, not 1. I think that is why they call football the ultimate team game. Who would have thought that's how it works?

[RamsInfiniti]

Re: Ron Bartell?

I never said in the negative rep I gave you that I know nothing about football. I said you know nothing about football which is what you keep trying to tell other people and then turn around and make garbage posts. I never said hustle you said hustle. But again if a player does not do his primary responsibility which for a CB is defending the pass then it don't matter if he runs down a player after a big play (like you said) and gives it his all. If he cant do what his position demands he will find a seat on the bench or be out of the NFL. I don't know what you don't understand about that. I am not saying that Bartell has proven he cant pass defend. What I am sayinig without you reading all types of crap into it is hustle and running down a guy on a 50 yard gain does not get you in and keep you in the starting lineup. Its being able to do the job the position requires. As for your stats last year they provid nothing to this post which is asking how he is doing this year which is what I have been asking about from the begining. I asked you to provide the thrown at and completion percentage for this year.

1. You clearly were confused about what the statistic "Pass Defensed" was, so I tried to explain it in a practical way. Don't worry, I won't try that again.

2. This is what you wrote in my negative rep:

"Your an idiot towards others that don't know <bleep> about football.

Since you are claiming I was being an idiot towards you, and you claim that I am idiots towards people that don't know anything about football, you are admitting you know nothing about football. You said it not me.

3. As Mr. Molar said, football is a team game, so I don't understand why you are focusing on Bartell after two games of football. He has played fine and will only get better.

4. Instead of asking me to provide you with some fluff statistics at this point, why don't you go watch the games, and take notes, and tell us all what you find. Why trust statistics generated by somebody else when you can do it yourself?

5. Finally, I have to point out the positive things that Bartell are doing, because you have a very narrow minded ideal of what a CB is supposed to do. It gets old seeing people continually question/bash negative aspects of players without complementing the positive ...