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  • Are we that far off defensively?... offense well

    Defensively get me a great LE through the draft or FA and then add a dominant SLB *cough* cough* Eric Norwood OLB South Carolina, so Vobora can back up all three spots and we should be good with the platoon of DTs we are using(Ramsey, Gibson, Ryan, Scott, possibly Carriker?). I really dont think we are that far off on defense from being good, when healthy. We have young corners and they will develop if we add playmakers at SLB and LE.

    Offense thats a whole other story. Our offense is literally 1 on 11 now that Robinson is out. I know its way early, but the whole offense needs to be rebuilt IMO. People need to be demoted or cut. I will say we have 2 maybe 3 great building blocks if Robinson can stay healthy. Obviously Steven Jackson and Jason Smith. Its really early, but I only see 4 guaranteed starting spots on offense next year(S-Jax, Smith, Robinson, and Brown). I could see youngsters like Avery and Burton getting demoted. I can see vets like Bell and Bulger getting cut (for the record im not a Bulger hater). Guys like McMichael, Cogs, and Barron not being resigned. Guys like Smith and Brown switching positions Smith to left Tackle and Brown to Guard. We need some type of spark offensively that we don't have now. That could come in a variety of ways play calling, a true number one threat, a big cohesive offensive line, a playmaking TE, or dare I say a young Franchise QB. Frankly we need all those things.

    My point is those complaining about the D need to stop. Spags has only had 1 year to build it and he done a good job so far. Spending the majority of our picks and offseason cap space on defense has put Spags a few pieces away, granted those pieces wont be easy to fill, but it can be done. They have set up offensive building blocks along with some complementary guys in 3 parts of the defense Chris Long on the D-line with a host of young DTs. James Laurantis complemented by the vet Spoon and young guy Vobora. Then our Best defensive player of OJ complemented by Bartell and Butler.

    Offensively we are all going to need alot more patience considering how few starters may be starting next year. Those of you who think Boller is the messiah he isn't lets get real. The new regime really hasen't put there stamp on changing the offense just yet. Take away the replacements of oft injured Orlando Pace and Torry Holt the who is a couple steps slower and Jason Brown is the only new guy. Unlike the defense we can't say the new organization has set up their own building blocks besides Smith (S-jax technically is Linny/MArtz guy)

  • #2
    Re: Are we that far off defensively?... offense well

    yeah the offense is pretty bad at this point. we need at least one tackle, one guard, a receiver or two and probably a tight end, not to mention obviously qb.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Are we that far off defensively?... offense well

      I completely disagree about being okay at defensive tackle. I think we would really benefit from more talent there, someone who can penetrate so that quarterbacks can't just step up into the pocket when our outside rushers begin to threaten. It's hard to imagine anyone you named for us at DT being more than a depth player on a more talented team. If someone like Gerald McCoy comes out early this year and his stock is in the appropriate range of our pick, he might be tough to overlook. Other needs on defense are a starting DE (to replace Little), a starting OLB (to replace Vobora/Grant), a starting CB (to at least challenge Wade or at worst provide good nickel depth), and depending on if they can resign Atogwe, a starting safety.

      Offensively, I think you've summed it up pretty well. Robinson has shown flashes but the word on him when he came here was "injury", and lo and behold he's injured. Avery does not seem like he fits what Shurmur wants to do on offense and may be losing confidence. Jackson, Smith, and Brown are probably the only locked building blocks on offense. I wouldn't rule out Karney either. Regardless of how Bulger, Boller, or Null play this year, the Rams are likely going to be in the market for a QB of the future. They need at least one more playmaker at WR and a new starting tight end. If Jason Smith slides to left tackle, they'll need a starting right tackle; I don't see Barron being retained. Greco or Setterstrom may be able to start at guard, but I don't think Bell's job is secure and I don't think Incognito is a lock for 2010.

      A good offseason or two, and the Rams may be able to accomplish a lot of these things. It's this kind of situation that illustrates why the draft is so important. You've got the chance to add young talent to your roster, so it's important to hit on those picks.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Are we that far off defensively?... offense well

        YES FOR REAL I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU guys and especially you Mcknight.

        Get rid of the guys who cannot perform at this level here or any other team for that matter and keep those players whom you just mentioned. By doing that you completely rebuild and " take the good from the bad" .\

        Cant go wrong with that approach.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Are we that far off defensively?... offense well

          Not at all. 6th game of the season and we put it all together. Jacksonville win. sucks to say and 5 tell then, but it is what it is.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Are we that far off defensively?... offense well

            dont take it the wrong way but i just dont get the point of this thread.

            you want a GREAT LE and a dominant SLB. But how are we going to get that? I mean doesnt every D become a force if they have a Great LE and a dominant SLB?

            i understand you want the D to get better but i dont have a problem with Vabora as the SLB. If he can work on his coverage he can be a solid SLB for us. The LE position will be addressed this off-season. But as for this season Little got 2 sacks in the 1st quarter last game.

            Also at this point i would have no problem in re-signing Barron to a 3-4 year deal. He hasnt given up a sack yet this season. And he only has 1 holding penalty. Also i dont see why we would move Brown to guard then just open up a hole at Center.

            Also the O line was starting look like a cohesive line vs the packers. I agree we need a playmaker at WR. As for QB i think we should address that in the 1st round of the 2010 draft (but not drop Bulger) look at my mock draft under the draft and FA section.

            I mean sooner or later we will see what our team is really made of. Of course have a great LE or Dominant SLB would be great but i think we should build within. Fells can fill that playmaking TE spot. Lets see how Avery handles Robinson's injury. Maybe Avery can get past his learning curve and be a go to target.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Are we that far off defensively?... offense well

              Originally posted by McKnight
              I think we should cut everyone except for the folloing players

              OFFENSE
              Steven Jackson
              Donnie Avery
              Laurent Robinson
              Keenan Burton
              Jason Smith
              John Greco
              Daniel Fells
              Mark Setterstrom

              DEFENSE
              Leonard Little
              Chris Long
              Clifton Ryan
              Will Witherspoon
              James Butler
              OJ Atogwe
              James Laurinaitis
              Ron Bartell


              then we completely rebuild through the draft, we need to keep our K and P. other than that and the players I listed... TEAR IT DOWN
              Well, that's 16 of the 22 starters needed on offense and defense. All we have to do is draft well in all seven rounds every year, and we'll have enough players to fill the entire 53-man roster by 2015! That is assuming that everybody stays healthy and suffers no decline with age.

              You want to tear the team and rebuild from the ground up. Isn't that essentially what we did last off-season? New faces in the defensive starting lineup include James Butler, Jonathan Wade, James Laurinaitis, David Vobora, and Gary Gibson. That's 5 out of 11, and most of the rest of the defensive starters are on the list above.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Are we that far off defensively?... offense well

                Originally posted by McKnight
                I think we should cut everyone except for the folloing players

                OFFENSE
                Steven Jackson
                Donnie Avery
                Laurent Robinson
                Keenan Burton
                Jason Smith
                John Greco
                Daniel Fells
                Mark Setterstrom

                DEFENSE
                Leonard Little
                Chris Long
                Clifton Ryan
                Will Witherspoon
                James Butler
                OJ Atogwe
                James Laurinaitis
                Ron Bartell


                then we completely rebuild through the draft, we need to keep our K and P. other than that and the players I listed... TEAR IT DOWN
                with your list of 16 players..it would be impossible to "completely rebuild through the draft"...we would need 37 picks instead of 7 to do that!
                think Spoon should step it up during the rest of the season or be traded/cut

                other players that should be on the Keep list...in some cases depending on if they get to see some action..in other cases when they return from IR..in others because they were drafted to be developed..in the case of Brown because you dont pay big money to fill a major hole..to then give up on him after 3 games..especially since he plays between possibly the 2 worse combo of Guards in the game.

                Jason Brown
                Bradley Fletcher
                Darell Scott
                Keith Null
                Anthony Smith
                Mike Karney
                Billy Bajema
                Brooks Foster
                Jon Wade
                Justin King
                Ruvall Martin
                Danny Amendola
                Chris Massey (best long snapper in the game..)
                David Vobora

                with both our lists combined that is still only 30 spots out of a 53 man roster taken care of so plenty of room for upgrades...in the salary cap era you cant have a roster filled with big money superstars..you need situational players and young players to develop..depth etc...
                Last edited by Ramblin` Ram; -09-28-2009, 04:25 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Are we that far off defensively?... offense well

                  I understand and agree that the Rams are not there yet. But come on, cut everyone and rebuild evrything? ...it's been THREE GAMES!

                  Let's wait until the season is over before we start cutting or demoting everyone.
                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]temp_4324_1458960283388_621[/ATTACH]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Are we that far off defensively?... offense well

                    Originally posted by RAMFANRAIDERHATER View Post
                    I understand and agree that the Rams are not there yet. But come on, cut everyone and rebuild evrything? ...it's been THREE GAMES!

                    Let's wait until the season is over before we start cutting or demoting everyone.

                    Thank goodness, some sanity. It's been 3 games and we are still adapting to new players and a new system and a new coaching staff. I'm as disappointed as any fan on this site, but we are now paying the price we knew we were going to have to pay from poor drafting and FA signings. The light at the end of the tunnel (not an onrushing locomotive) is that we have some very good football people running our FO. Devaney and Spags are good evaluators of talent and we will begin to see the benefits of that in another year or two. In the meantime, sit tight, enjoy the football season and hope for the best. We will surprise some people with wins I'm sure of that. We are not headed to "Lions country". It's ***** week, you can be sure the team will be pumped for that that game. Living in the Bay Area it's tough to open the paper and see these optimistic headlines about the *****. Let's not talk about cutting most of our starters, please!

                    Go Rams!

                    Comment

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                    • Warner4prez
                      The Biggest Need??
                      by Warner4prez
                      Much has been made, and shall continue to be made about where to go with the 1st overall pick this year. What I want to know is what is our most glaring need? What can make or break this team? I'm prepared to give a little insight to each position and how they can impact our team.

                      1.) QB: Obviously this is one of the biggest points of contention with all fans this year as well as from years past. It seems unlikely that the Rams won't do SOMETHING to address the QB position this year, but where are you at clan rammers? Personally I don't think a top tier QB is a major need. Perhaps we need a game manager, a Chad Henne type or Matt Moore. Watching the Rams turn into an air-raid offense seems unlikely no matter who gets the job though. One thing is for sure though, a fresh face under center could force defenders to pull a defender or two out of the box.

                      2.) DL: Suh and McCoy have dominated their fair share of draft talk this offseason, rightfully so. Is DL the most glaring need to this team though? Coach Spags has made his mark on the NFL as a guy who can make the most out of largely unknown talent. His DL by committee mantra in NY really gave life to guys like Justin Tuck and Osi. Perhaps the Rams have their guys in Clifton Ryan and Chris Long. The uncertain future of players behind them does make an awful lot of people nervous. Top flight talent could anchor this unit for a decade.

                      3.) WR: Last season gave a lot of WR's the light of day they may have never seen if not for the likes of Billy Devaney. He traded for the likes of Robinson and Gibson, and recruited Amendola, Kent and Martin from relative obscurity. A lot of hopes ride on Robinson and Avery to lead a largely unproven and unknown squad of receivers, but do either make for a threat to opposing defenses? Surely a true #1 receiver would do wonders for ANY QB to relieve a little pressure and maybe create a mismatch for our speedy corps.

                      4.) OLB: J-Lau proved to be the steal of the draft for our Rams last season, and will hopefully anchor our LB corps for years to come. The only trouble is that we don't exactly have much of a corps around him. Vobora has captivated the teams attention as a spark-plug once only known as Mr. Irrelevant, but is he a true starter for this Defense at SLB? Paris Lennon is a journyman at WLB and merely there to keep the spot warm for anyone to come in and claim it. A couple of bruisers to play sideline to sideline would definately benefit the whole defense by adding extra protection to stop the run, as well as helping to check the increasingly popular WR Screen, popularized by Arizona.

                      5.) TE: In the teams' attempt to run a West Coast offense, TE is supposed to be a keystone to success. Randy McMichael was once a top TE for the Dolphins and was expected to be a presence for the young Rams unit. That experiment is now likely coming to an end. Daniel Fells could still surprise as a viable starter, but there's...
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                      -02-22-2010, 09:36 PM
                    • rNemesis
                      HOW CLOSE IS THIS TEAM TO COMPETING?(VERY LONG)Please provide feedback
                      by rNemesis
                      First of all let me just say that these last few years have been VERY frustrating and embarassing for me as a RAM FAN and I'm sure you guys are just as disappointed. I have watched my team go from the greatest show on turf to, as a washington post columnist said after the redskins loss, " the most miserable mass on grass". MY main question here is , " How far are the rams from being a decent competitive rock solid team? Its a long way to go; it doesnt happen overnight but it shouldnt take FOREVER either.


                      But I am not gonna sit here and talk about that all night. We know what has happened. We know what we've become. 13 straight losses dating back to last season. 3-13 in 2007 and 2-14 in 2008. 5 wins in the last 30 or so games? ( not sure exactly the stats) That is horrible.

                      Let's go back year by year as to how we finished record wise.
                      In the 1990's we were bad. But so were other teams which are now good today. But if you look at our 90's record to others, you will see that we were bad most of those years. Other teams had bad years too during the 90's but it was only really the lions, bengals, cardinals and saints. That should show you how bad of a team the Rams are. We never finished over 7 wins from 1990 up until 1999, which was our superbowl year. Which now tells me that the Rams have been bad, are now bad, and I hope we dont continue to be bad. But lately one has to believe that that is the penalty for our actions.

                      2000- 10-6 DECENT
                      2001- 14-2 ( excellent; we beat the pats that season but lost in the SB to the same :|)
                      2002- 7-9 Not bad
                      2003- 12-4 excellent
                      2004- 8-8 not bad; competitive
                      2005- I think we were 7-9 or 6-10 cant remember
                      2006- 8-8
                      2007- 3-13 horrible
                      2008- 2-14 lousy

                      I am not surprised at how we have fallen so badly. What I cant seem to understand is how fast we have fallen as such. How come we havent been able to stop the bleeding and bounce back like other teams have seemed to?

                      So tell me guys. How far off is this team from competing? Well, I look at the league and I have noticed that most of the other teams have playmakers in a lot of key positions. Why is that? Because they do a great job of DRAFTING PLAYERS THAT FIT INTO THEIR SCHEME WELL. We on the other hand have not done that lately. We have drafted players that have done well IN THEIR SCHEME and so it didnt matter to the previous regime ( Jay ZYgmunt ) if they fit or not the point was they wanted them so much that they drafted them regardless of their college scheme and success. In the era since Martz left, we have drafted the likes of busts ( or so they appear to be) like Tye Hill, Adam Carriker, Claude Wroten, Fakhir Brown, etc. The list goes on and on.

                      THIS HAS REALLY HURT THIS ORGANIZATION SO MUCH THAT IT IS REARING ITS UGLY HEAD NOW. Bad drafting has put us in such a talentless hole that...
                      -09-29-2009, 06:43 PM
                    • RamsFan16
                      What we have, what we need ( Long )
                      by RamsFan16
                      What we have, and what we need

                      Offensively, the Rams have a lot of potential, unfortunately that doesn’t automatically translate to All Pro talent. As cornerstones, we have several. Starting with the Offensive Line, we have Jason Brown, and Jason Smith. Both young, and talented, with room to improve. Jason Smith the rookie RT has had a few injuries this season, with the most recent being a severe concussion. Prior to the injury, he was playing at a very high level. While run blocking, Smith was a absolute bulldozer, driving opponents back, pancaking them, and being relentless. While in pass protection, he showed much improvement. He started out slow and got had a “Welcome to the NFL, Rookie!” moment when Julius Peppers made a comedian out of Smith. Other than that one play, Smith has been solid in pass protection, and outstanding in the running game. The Rams are set at C, and RT, and some could say LG for the future. Yes, LG, Jacob Bell has been playing much better this season, believe it or not. Starting lineman Alex Barron ( LT ) and Richie Incognito ( RG ) have expiring contracts at the end of the season, with that, the question “Do the Rams bring them back?” comes up. Granted, they make boneheaded penalties on occasion, they’re players, they’ve becoming accustomed to this scheme and other than penalties have played at a “winning level”. Even if they’re not guaranteed a starting spot, bring them back. A team with enough holes the way it is does not need to create anymore for themselves. At worst, the two of them will be solid backups. Bring in some draft picks, or Free Agents to compete with them, make them earn it, but we cannot just let them walk, and create 2 holes on the line when they’ve gelled together pretty well as of late
                      .
                      At the skill positions, offensively, the Rams have an absolute star Running Back in Steven Jackson. One of thee best, if not the best running backs in the game, Jackson has outstanding leadership and talent. He’s going to be 27 years old next season, and with his unique style of play, we badly need to get him a legitimate backup running back to take the load of him. Samkon Gado and Kenneth Darby will most likely be gone after this season, and Rookie RB Chris Ogbonoya ( sp* ) could serve as a potential #2, or #3 at worst. But we need to get Steven a backup, and a backup bad to let him continue this high level of play. At Tight End, veteran Randy McMichael will most likely be gone after this year, young Daniel Fells has shown potential and never gets utilized in our game plan for some reason. I’d feel comfortable next season with Daniel Fells and Billy Bajema as our two tight ends. That being said, it wouldn’t hurt to get a young guy in to compete either, but if not, I’m fine. At Wide Receiver, we have a stable of young, potential filled players. Donnie Avery, Brandon Gibson, Laurant Robinson, Keenan Burton, Danny Amendola, Ruvell Martin, Brooks Foster, Jordan Kent, who to keep, who to say bye...
                      -12-09-2009, 02:20 AM
                    • chiguy
                      Positions I Feel Good About
                      by chiguy
                      The positions on the roster I feel OK about:

                      1. MLB. The kid is good.

                      2. Safety. Dahl has been good in Butler's absence.

                      3. Center. Not dominant, but he ain't the problem either.

                      4. Cornerback. We still need another one, but our CBs don't get embarrassed each week.

                      5. Number #2 Receiver. Between Robinson and Avery, one of them is bound to be good enough for that.

                      6. Defensive End. I don't feel great about this because of our lack pass rush, but our DEs have been good against the run. Long in particular looks like a good one against the run. I bet he'd get to the passer with real help elsewhere.


                      Positions I feel only so-so about:

                      1. DT. They're better this year, but dominant they ain't.

                      2. WLB. Witherspoon is fine, but he doesn't stand out like he did two years ago either. He isn't worth the big money he's getting paid, but at least he shows up and does his job.

                      3. RB. People will hate this being listed there, but I wonder how many more productive seasons Jackson will have and we have nothing behind. If he goes down, our offense would be beyond bad.

                      4. OT. Two first rounders starting (when Smith is healthy), but no dominance there. Jury is clearly out on Smith and Barron is at best mediocre.


                      The worst positions:

                      1. QB. Combine Boller's athleticism and moxie with Bulger's accuracy, and you'd have a decent quarterback. Sadly, they're separate people.

                      2. TE. McMichaels has the dropsies and Fells still can't earn starting time.

                      3. FB...unimpressed by Karney.

                      4. SLB. Lennon...no. Vorba...no. Grant? Probably not.

                      5. #1WR. Do we have an NFL #1 on the roster? I haven't seen him yet.

                      6. OG. Bell has been awful (RT next year?) and I don't understand anyone's fascination with Incognito....
                      -10-11-2009, 08:15 PM
                    • RamsFan16
                      The Rams, honest assessment. (Long, but a good read) Check it!
                      by RamsFan16
                      Why are expectations so low next season for us? As a fan, I feel like I know what we're capable of, last year we dealt with coaching problems, and that's what most of our problems are. We have some real good players.

                      I understand that our coaching staff hasn't coached yet, but with Steve Spagnuolo as Head Coach, Pat Shurmur (one of the best young offensive minds in football) as Offensive Coordinator, and Ken Flajole (a damn good coach) as defensive coordinator. For the first time, in a Rams Head Coaching hire, I feel like we made a really good decision on bringing these guys in.

                      On offense, of course our focal point will be Pro Bowler Steven Jackson. And one of the things we needed to do was bring in some offensive line help. We cut Pace, but to be honest, he was living by name, it wasn't the same Pro Bowler of a few years ago. We then brought in center Jason Brown who is one of the best Centers in the league, and is at a young age, we drafted Jason Smith, whose a beast. Of course, Jason Smith hasn't played a down yet, but I feel really confident in what he'll do, especially by the reports I've read on him already. We moved Barron to Left Tackle, so our starting line will be || LT Alex Barron | LG Jacob Bell (was a very good player, hopefully the new staff can get him back to where he was, if not.. well John Greco looked like a madman last year)| C Jason Brown | RG Richie Incognito (very good player) | RT Jason Smith || While most people don't know half of these guys, we will.

                      Not only did we improve the offensive line, but we brought in Pro Bowl fullback Mike Karney, who was released by New Orleans. And from what I read, a lot of Saints fans were upset over this move, and really the only reason was because he didn't fit into the pass heavy scheme. He's a big bruiser, and him blocking for Jackson is going to be HUGE! We signed blocking specialist Billy Bajema from San Fransisco, and traded for WR Laurant Robinson, who before injury last year was destined to be a starter in Atlanta after his great rookie season. Word is he's looking good so far, and Donnie Avery really improved his route running, and is catching everything thrown his way. I expect a huge year from Avery.

                      After those acquisitions, and our current lineup, Jackson WILL have a HUGE year.

                      Bulger has been crap the past two seasons, and while I'm a huge critique of him, I feel this offense is going to be better suited for him (the Run Heavy/West Coast Offense), and is going to make him excel again. He's not the strongest Quarterback in the world, so the quick short - mid range passes will be very good for him.


                      And on defense, we signed SS James Butler from the Giants. He's not a Pro Bowler, but he's a very nice player. We franchised young up and coming FS OJ Atogwe, and also signed young stud Ron Bartell to a multi year deal. With those guys, our secondary is potentially scary, and if the...
                      -06-17-2009, 11:58 AM
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