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  • remember in last years draft...

    When we selected injury prone Donnie Avery overr Desean Jackson.... sigh

  • #2
    Re: remember in last years draft...

    I knew this thread was coming. And to be honest, I don't have an answer. I thought it was wrong at the time and I haven't seen much to make me change that stance. DeSean Jackson (22) is three years younger than Avery (25), which is a very big issue with me because IMO when Donnie's rookie contract is up he'll be 28, making him a risk to re-sign long term. Oh, and 5 of Jackson's 8 TDs have gone for 60 yards or more. Wow, wasn't that the player we needed to stretch the field here in the Lou?
    Last edited by Bald_81; -10-26-2009, 06:53 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: remember in last years draft...

      It F----n Stinks, IM sick to the stomach at the moment with Devaney
      A blind man could have told you desean Jackson was the better option.
      Gutted, Friggin gutted.
      And lets not forget Aaron Curry while were at it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: remember in last years draft...

        I personally believe that Linehan/Zygmunt were responsible for the first and second round picks in '08 with Devaney being given more power and freedom on day two of the draft. I have no facts or proof to back up my claims; it's just a gut feeling I have. Devaney wasn't the GM at the time, therefore I believe Linehan/Zygmunt had final say with some input from Billy.

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        • #5
          Re: remember in last years draft...

          Originally posted by GROUND DOG 39 View Post
          And lets not forget Aaron Curry while were at it.
          Last time I checked Laurinaitis had 12 more tackles than Curry and 2 more ints.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: remember in last years draft...

            Originally posted by GROUND DOG 39 View Post
            And lets not forget Aaron Curry while were at it.
            I am happy we passed on him. We got Jason Smith and James Laurinaitis. To compare some stats here

            Laurinaitis- 49 total tackles 40 solo 9 assisted 4 pass defended 2 ints 1 fumble recovery

            Curry- 37 total tackles 33 solo 4 assisted 2 forced fumbles

            Seems to me like we are getting a whole lot more production for a lot less money. James is also a TRUE mlb, something we have been lacking on this team for a while

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: remember in last years draft...

              I don't mind jumping on this bandwagon because I was against the Avery pick from the beginning and said so on draft day here on the board.

              The problem I have is that when a team "reaches" for a pick, 9 times out of 10 it's a mistake. A player's projected draft position is the result of many different scouting organizations, talks with scouts from different teams, etc. It's the concensus of an entire profession. To reach for a pick, you have to be sure that you are right where the other scouts are wrong. You have to believe that your scouting is better than everybody else's. And for n-1 teams, this has to be false.

              Does it happen sometimes that picks that appeared to be reaches were in fact great picks? Sure. But not typically. And as a believer in the wisdom of crowds, I am not surprised that those picks tend to be poor ones.

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              • #8
                Re: remember in last years draft...

                Did anybody watch the pregame show on ESPN yesterday where they had one of those "get to know an NFL player" deals with DeSean Jackson? He came off as the most arrogant little punk I have ever seen. It was basically 3 minutes of Mr. Jackson saying "I am the greatest wide receiver in the history of the NFL. The things I do on the field are unbelievable. I surprise myself at some of the things I am capable of. I am impossible to cover" blah blah blah, etc. etc. This guy doesn't have a humble bone in his body. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the road his attitude starts rubbing his teammates the wrong way.

                I admit that he is a very good player and in retrospect maybe we should have drafted him. But before the draft Avery was seen as more or less the same type of player, only with higher character and more size. So I don't think this was another draft day disaster. I think Avery is still going to turn out to be a good player.

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                • #9
                  Re: remember in last years draft...

                  Originally posted by bruce4life View Post
                  When we selected injury prone Donnie Avery overr Desean Jackson.... sigh
                  Avery was injury prone when the Rams drafted him? Wanna give us a breakdown of his college injuries?

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                  • #10
                    Re: remember in last years draft...

                    Originally posted by Bald_81 View Post
                    I knew this thread was coming. And to be honest, I don't have an answer. I thought it was wrong at the time and I haven't seen much to make me change that stance. DeSean Jackson (22) is three years younger than Avery (25), which is a very big issue with me because IMO when Donnie's rookie contract is up he'll be 28, making him a risk to re-sign long term. Oh, and 5 of Jackson's 8 TDs have gone for 60 yards or more. Wow, wasn't that the player we needed to stretch the field here in the Lou?
                    Hard to argue with that.

                    At least we didn't completely blow this one as bad as many other decisions we've made. We've still got a reasonably productive receiver in Avery. But you're right DeSean Jackson was clearly the right choice.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: remember in last years draft...

                      Originally posted by Nick_Weasel View Post
                      I don't mind jumping on this bandwagon because I was against the Avery pick from the beginning and said so on draft day here on the board.

                      The problem I have is that when a team "reaches" for a pick, 9 times out of 10 it's a mistake. A player's projected draft position is the result of many different scouting organizations, talks with scouts from different teams, etc. It's the concensus of an entire profession. To reach for a pick, you have to be sure that you are right where the other scouts are wrong. You have to believe that your scouting is better than everybody else's. And for n-1 teams, this has to be false.

                      Does it happen sometimes that picks that appeared to be reaches were in fact great picks? Sure. But not typically. And as a believer in the wisdom of crowds, I am not surprised that those picks tend to be poor ones.
                      Then please explaine the following picks who were selected at or close to projection ny the so called consensus?

                      Chris Long(I do not feel he is a bust but many would argue)
                      J Kennedy(I think that is his name I am trying to forget it)
                      T. Hill
                      A. Carriker

                      and the list can go on and on. So your problem is having them reach but when they do not then can you explain what happen to the consensus with the list above?

                      Avery has been struggling with nagging injuries. He was a second round pick and as far as I am concern if he continues to grow and gets 100% healthy he will be an impact player for the Rams.

                      Do not forget that D. Jackson had alot of character questions going into the draft.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: remember in last years draft...

                        Donnie Avery is not so bad...some rookie receivers excel right a way because they got drafted to a good team. While the rams offence is so horrible.. we just need to give Avery time to develope. Avery has a lot of potential.. let's not throw him under the bus yet.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: remember in last years draft...

                          Originally posted by Dominating D View Post
                          Then please explaine the following picks who were selected at or close to projection ny the so called consensus?

                          Chris Long(I do not feel he is a bust but many would argue)
                          J Kennedy(I think that is his name I am trying to forget it)
                          T. Hill
                          A. Carriker

                          and the list can go on and on. So your problem is having them reach but when they do not then can you explain what happen to the consensus with the list above?
                          Nowhere did I say that the concensus gets scouting reports correct 100% of the time. There is uncertainty regarding players' abilities as well as unforeseen events that can affect a player's career.

                          What I am saying is that when a single team's scouts view a player different from how the consensus views him, it's more likely the team's scouts are wrong than vice versa. None of this has anything to do with players who were simply busts.

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                          • #14
                            Re: remember in last years draft...

                            I know I can't prove a what if but I'm pretty sure if we had drafted Jackson and the Eagles had gotten Avery both players would have notably different stats.

                            Avery still may have gotten hurt but no way does Jackson put up the big numbers here.

                            For instance... what would be the difference in Holt having his rookie year last year versus 1999?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: remember in last years draft...

                              Originally posted by Bald_81 View Post
                              Oh, and 5 of Jackson's 8 TDs have gone for 60 yards or more. Wow, wasn't that the player we needed to stretch the field here in the Lou?
                              Maybe because his qb has the time and the arm to throw over 25 yds . . .

                              Comment

                              Related Topics

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                              • RamWraith
                                Long, Avery will be Devaney's test cases
                                by RamWraith
                                By Bryan Burwell
                                ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
                                Monday, Apr. 28 2008

                                By the end of the biggest weekend of his professional life, Billy Devaney still
                                looked rather tidy. Not a hair out of place. Hardly a wrinkle in his
                                stone-washed jeans or his tan pullover shirt, not a speck of dirt on his crisp
                                white and red running shoes.

                                But you could see it in the eyes of the Rams' new executive vice president just
                                how exhausted he was early Sunday evening after overseeing his first NFL draft
                                as the franchise's de facto general manager. The diminutive personnel man stood
                                in the front of the team's auditorium after the seventh round and his red,
                                puffy eyes seemed a million miles away. Only a few feet away, coach Scott
                                Linehan stood near the podium with a big, refreshed smile on his face, while
                                Devaney stood on the opposite side of the podium with an expression that reeked
                                of exhaustion.

                                "I feel just as tired now as I've ever felt," said Devaney.

                                That's what pressure does to you. Football Saturdays and Sundays are the truest
                                proving ground for players and coaches to assert their greatness. For personnel
                                men like Devaney, draft weekend is a condensed 48-hour trial by fire.

                                So what can we cull, if anything, about Devaney and the direction he's taking
                                the Rams after this weekend?

                                We can judge his style almost immediately, but we'll have to wait awhile to
                                determine what sort of taste he has as a talent evaluator. We know that in some
                                cases (see: Chris Long over Glenn Dorsey), Devaney might be a bit too cautious
                                for his own good. In other cases (making trades in the fourth and fifth rounds
                                to move up 11 and nine slots), he showed a sharp aggressiveness to get two
                                targeted players who might not have been there if he had sat tight.

                                The first-round grade for the Rams will be determined over the course of Long
                                and Dorsey's careers. Whether Long becomes a defensive terror as a pass rushing
                                defensive end for the Rams, it won't be his Hall of Fame father's shadow that
                                he'll necessarily be measured by. It will be the potentially daunting shadow of
                                LSU defensive tackle Dorsey, who was drafted three slots later by the
                                cross-state rival Kansas City Chiefs, and the player most Rams insiders will
                                tell you was the top-rated player on their draft board.

                                Devaney's eye for talent will be measured by that comparison as well. And for
                                his sake, he'd better hope that Long is the stud that he thinks he will be, or
                                at the very least that Dorsey isn't the second coming of Warren Sapp that the
                                rest of us think he will become.

                                You can't make that determination overnight, but you can be sure that a lot of
                                people want to. I can't wait to see how this plays...
                                -04-28-2008, 12:18 PM
                              • RamWraith
                                Billy Devaney Recaps Draft
                                by RamWraith
                                April 28
                                Billy Devaney Recaps Draft

                                Rams VP of Player Personnel Billy Devaney joined Bernie Miklasz and Randy Karraker Monday on the Roll Home on Team 1380 to recap the Draft.

                                At the end of the day it came down to the need for pass rush for the pick between Chris Long and Glenn Dorsey. Billy said that along with the positive energy Long brings into the building, he will make the other guys on the line better.

                                The Rams stuck to their theme of picking smart, passionate, productive players throughout the draft.

                                Devaney said that Donnie Avery was the best fit for the Rams at the wide receiver position.

                                “There were a lot of good receivers that went after Avery, but whether its size or speed or other issues, Avery was a much better fit for Al Saunder’s offense.”

                                As an example of the leadway that Jay Zygmunt and Scott Linehan gave him, Billy said that he put in a new grading scale when he got here even though it was very late in the process of preparing for the draft.

                                Devaney said that there wasn’t any major tweaking of the board late last week, but they moved some guys around after they received additional information.

                                The Rams know John Greco can play guard, but they would like to try him at tackle too. Roy Schuening definitely has a chance to develop into a starter.

                                Justin King needs some experience playing man coverage. He has all the measurables like height/weight, and has played some wide out. "There is no reason why this guy shouldn’t make tremendous gains," Billy said.

                                Devaney said that Mark Setterstrom, Brett Romberg, and Richie Incognito will fight it out for the center position, but they also want to get a look at Dustin Fry.

                                The guys also talked about the depth at safety, and Billy said they will bring in a quarterback for camp.
                                -04-29-2008, 03:08 PM
                              • RamDez
                                New GM runs show on draft day
                                by RamDez
                                New GM runs show on draft day
                                By R.B. FALLSTROM | AP Sports Writer
                                April 18, 2009
                                ST. LOUIS - Last April, Billy Devaney had more podium time on Day 2 of the draft for the St. Louis Rams. This year, he carries veto power.

                                The change at the top sparks hope for a franchise that will again be in the spotlight on draft day, picking second for the second straight year. A total of five wins the last two seasons prompted a full-scale overhaul that leaves the Rams with a new coach, a roster minus two stars from its past glories and a front office that'll lean heaviest on those with football backgrounds.

                                In charge will be a general manager with 24 years of hands-on experience. Devaney, a former protege of Bobby Beathard, was personnel director last year in his first season with St. Louis.

                                Since taking over near the end of last year's 2-14 disaster, he's already made some hard choices.
                                Longtime stars Orlando Pace and Torry Holt were released to clear cap space for young talent. Safety Oshiomoghe Atogwe got the franchise player tag and cornerback Ron Bartell was re-signed after shopping the free agent market.

                                The first of three minicamps was held earlier this month, giving Devaney and new coach Steve Spagnuolo a better feel for their needs.

                                "That was one of the reasons Billy and I decided to have a camp before the draft," Spagnuolo said. "I think that will be huge."

                                Next weekend comes the biggest day yet.

                                "There's more to do, a lot more," Devaney said in a telephone interview during a break in draft preparations. "But this is awesome, it's the time you love."

                                The Rams follow the Detroit Lions to the podium on Saturday, so the choices are endless.

                                Most pre-draft speculation has centered on the offensive line, a weakness in recent years and weakened further by the recent release of seven-time Pro Bowler Orlando Pace. Tackles Jason Smith of Baylor and Eugene Monroe of Virginia could fill the void.

                                Then again, this is a franchise that needs help almost everywhere. The exception: defensive line, where they invested last year's No. 2 on Chris Long and their 2007 first-rounder on Adam Carriker.

                                Devaney will only say the Rams will take the best player on their board. If they decide a skill player is the best bet, he vowed cost will not scare them.

                                "No matter who you pick, it's going to be ridiculously expensive," Devaney said. "I don't know how every other place operates, but I know that's how it works here.

                                "In free agency, in hiring a coach, in the draft, it's doing what's best for the organization."

                                Thus far, trading down doesn't seem to be an option. Not with a draft pegged as one with several interchangeable options at or near the top of the heap.

                                "No interest,"...
                                -04-19-2009, 01:06 AM
                              • RamWraith
                                The “Final Say” At Rams Park
                                by RamWraith
                                By Bernie Miklasz
                                02/11/2008 7:10 pm

                                Rams GM Jay Zygmunt has taken a beating from irate Rams fans and media. By trade, he’s been an attorney and the team’s salary-cap specialist. So what is the guy doing making personnel decisions? Why does he have power on the football side of things?

                                The issue of Zygmunt having “The Final Say” at Rams Park has been the rub with fans and media.

                                Zygmunt’s response to all of that came in two separate stages, and I will give them to you in reverse order:

                                1. Three times during a 30-minute interview on our Team 1380-AM radio show Monday, Zygmunt said this: “I am not a personnel guy.”

                                2. Over the weekend, Zygmunt hired Billy Devaney to serve as executive vice president over player personnel at Rams Park.

                                It’s becoming clear to me that even if Zygmunt was hung up on having power before, he seems to be getting over it.

                                That’s why Billy D is on board.

                                Zygmunt wouldn’t have recruited Devaney unless he valued Devaney’s football judgements. He didn’t bring Devaney in here to toss aside Devaney’s recommendations on free-agent signings and draft choices. He has too much respect for Devaney.

                                (OK, you may be asking… what about Tony Softli? Didn’t the Rams hire him to coordinate the draft, and wasn’t Softli supposed to have considerable influence at Rams Park? So why will it be different for Devaney? The easy answer: Devaney is an established talent evaluator in the NFL, and has made his reputation over a 25-year period. He has a track record. Softli was a relative unknown when the Rams hired him. And the Rams hired him after being denied permission to speak to seven other candidates employed by other NFL teams. To be blunt: Softli wasn’t what the Rams thought they were getting. They took a shot. It may not work out. But with Devaney, they KNOW what they are getting. Big difference between the Softli hiring and the Devaney appointment).

                                So if you are worried about Jay Zygmunt throwing his power down on Devaney as if it were a hammer, I’d suggest that you’d reevaluate the situation.

                                More than anything, J-Z realized he needed help.

                                And he went out and got it.

                                Don’t ask me.

                                Head coach Scott Linehan said so on Monday at Rams Park. Speaking to a few reporters off to the side, after Devaney’s introduction, the newly candid Linehan offered this:

                                “I needed Billy Devaney to come here. And I think Jay needed Billy, too. We need his help.”

                                Linehan explained that, as a coach, he gets too attached to players. He doesn’t always make the best judgements. He wanted someone like Devaney to come in and lead the way, and to offer meaningful input that may prevent the coach from making personnel mistakes. Linehan also said that Devaney’s well-rounded personality was a good fit for the Rams; Devaney, who has...
                                -02-11-2008, 08:52 PM
                              • AvengerRam_old
                                Bill Devaney - Preliminary Evaluation
                                by AvengerRam_old
                                I've seen a few posts in which Devaney has been included in the category of "inept front office." I think he's more accurately described as part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. Here's how I see him:

                                The Draft
                                It is always difficult to evaluate a draft this early, but I think the initial reviews have to be positive overall. Chris Long is playing hard, despite the team's problems, and he shows a great deal of promise. The selection of Donnie Avery was widely criticized, but his play has turned a lot of people around. Greco is just starting to get a chance and looks like he could be a valuable asset in the future. Justin King looked promising before he was hurt. Vobora and Chamberlain are good special teams/depth guys. In my opinion, so far so good.

                                Free Agency
                                With the ownership transition and Coach Line%@# on the hot seat, the Rams were a tough sell for free agents last offseason. Josh Brown was a great signing which will pay dividends for years. Jacob Bell has been a major disappointment, but I don't see how you can fault Devaney for failing to foresee his weight loss. I think you can critique Devaney for not making more of an effort to bolster the linebacking corps in FA, though there were not too many candidates.

                                Trade Market
                                Hindsight is 20/20 here, and some will argue that the Rams should have traded for Kris Jenkins, who has had a great year in NY. The price paid by the Jets (a 3rd and 5th round selection) was affordable, but don't discount the fact that it also cost them a 4 year, $32M contract (with $20M guaranteed) - all for a guy who is 29 and has had a history of injuries.

                                Retention of Players
                                Despite a disappointing season, I fully support the decision to sign Steven Jackson to a long-term deal. With his age and productivity (when healthy), this was a no-brainer. Hopefully, he'll make it his mission to get in the best shape of his life and play 16 games next year. If he does, I'll put pretty good money on Jackson being in the top 3 in yards from scrimmage. Devaney faces some big tests in this department soon (Atogwe, Bartell, Incognito, Adeyanju). It will be interesting to see how these negotiations go, particularly in a post-Zymunt Front Office.

                                All in all, I think Devaney has demonstrated the ability to be an effective GM. I see no reason to throw him out with the bath water.
                                -12-10-2008, 10:23 AM
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