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Is Long Average?

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  • Is Long Average?

    Today I read an article in which Michael Lombardi called Chris Long an average DE. Now I hate Lombardi and I love Chris Long, so quick to jump to his defense I compared Longs first two seasons to some great DE's (Mario Williams, Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney). I thought that it took a DE 3 years to come into his own, but I was wrong. All three of those DE's had double digit sacks by their second year, where as Long only had 5 this year. So my question becomes, is Long really an average DE? I hate to believe it because I love the guy, but if he doesn't show up this year he might just be one.

  • #2
    Re: Is Long Average?

    Put Ndamukong Suh next to him, not Douzable, Ramsey, Gibson, or Darrell Scott, then we will see how average he is.

    The kid needs help, plain and simple.


    • #3
      Re: Is Long Average?

      Long looked like he turned a corner the 2nd half of the season, but that being said I don't think he'll ever be on the level of M. Williams, J. Allen, or D. Freeney. People love to selectively choose comparisons that support their case, so everybody who wants to argue 5 sacks in year 2 = future pro-bowler look for similar histories in top players. But that's a lot different from saying that such progression is the norm and thus nothing to be concerned about. I'd bet that the majority of DE who have 5 sacks in year 2 never have more than 8 or 9 sacks in a season.

      To qualify all of the above, I think Long will develop into a good DE. He'll probably never be an All-Pro, but I think he'll be a good all-around player who can hold his own against the run and register 8-9 sacks. That's not HOF, but it's not average either. Only time will tell.


      • #4
        Re: Is Long Average?

        I'm sure our stat guys will whip out statistics right and left saying Long is just fine. I don't believe stats should tell 100% of either side of an argument. I think Long may have found a groove in the second half of the season but I also agree that he better really produce next year or he won't be worth the 2nd pick in the draft.


        • #5
          Re: Is Long Average?

          Long was much better last season than in his rookie campaign. He also would benefit tremendously from some help on an otherwise poor defensive line. Whether or not he was worthy of the 2nd overall pick in the draft has yet to fully play out, but Lombardi's 'assessment" was nothing more than a cheap shot. Matt Ryan and Mark Sanchez may very well turn out to have very good careers, but to suggest it was basically a bad decision for the Rams to not have drafted either one is ridiculous.


          • #6
            Re: Is Long Average?

            Dam all he needs is a supporting cast on that line and He'll be fine... we have been horrible and haven't given him or any other position much help at all.


            • #7
              Re: Is Long Average?

              I also have to point out that the Rams werent hard to run on and our opponants often had the lead in the game, so Long didnt have as many chances to rush the passer as players like Freeney and Williams have playing on teams that can score a lot of points


              • #8
                Re: Is Long Average?

                too early to call Long average. His athleticism and motor can propel him to all pro status and to say he'll never get there is kinda unfounded to me. Every player's situation is different and it becomes quite hard to compare players neck in neck without taking into account the help they get on defense (chris long got very little along the line) and the situation the opposing offense (against us offenses typically ran the ball the majority of the game and went deep all day). Chris Long is more of a run stopping (something he excels at) defensive end than a pass rushing defensive end at this point in his career. You get that DT that can eat a guard and a center up by himself and we'll see what happens.

                Getting into this line of talking gets me wanting to get Suh again....A healthy and emerging carriker, a dominant, living up to the hype Suh, and a Chris Long playing in his best position which is left end i start drooling at the prospects of our defense...


                • #9
                  Re: Is Long Average?

                  Average at getting sacks? Maybe, we don't really know since he has no real threat to take double teams off of him. But as a run stopper, the kid is damn near greatness. Very Very solid against the run, him and Jlau are about our only run defense.


                  • #10
                    Re: Is Long Average?

                    Stats-wise, it's hard to argue that he hasn't been average or below but that doesn't take into account the different team issues. Dunno how you define his worthiness as a second pick except in the context of the other players available that year. He's contributed as much if not more than any other DLer under consideration for that pick ,no?

                    Heck, just staying reasonably healthy for two seasons puts him way above average for Ram high draftees, esp on the DL, for the last decade.

                    Insufficiently motivated to research the matter - Long is the least of The Rams' worries,imo; kind of like fretting that SJ must be average because he hasn't scored enough TDs, but I wonder how many of the aforementioned star DEs' sacks in their first couple seasons came in desperation/garbage time because their offenses scored so much more and/or were at least partially the result of good play by their DL teammates. I'd venture to guess quite a few.

                    I think Long created more opportunities for his teammates than they did for him & his mid/late season performances were a good sign that he will continue to do so & more if he gets help and has the same coaching/scheme.


                    • #11
                      Re: Is Long Average?

                      Keep in mind also that he had to learn a new system in his second year. Not only that but an intricate system that saw him play on the outside, play on the inside, and drop into coverage. And he did start picking up some steam in the second half of the year.

                      Thats enough for me to give him another year before starting to label him as "average".


                      • #12
                        Re: Is Long Average?

                        I always laugh when a judgement on a DE is made based solely on sacks.

                        Too funny.
                        The more things change, the more they stay the same.


                        • #13
                          Re: Is Long Average?

                          Right now, one could argue that he is "average." That said, I think he has shown signs of being better than average, and I expect he'll progress to Pro Bowl level before all is said and done.


                          • #14
                            Re: Is Long Average?

                            i think "average" is maybe a bit harsh, he's certainly better than that but he probably has average athleticism/speed. he makes up for it in other areas, but he'll probably never really be an elite guy as far as sack numbers are concerned.


                            • #15
                              Re: Is Long Average?

                              Originally posted by molar_pistol
                              i think "average" is maybe a bit harsh, he's certainly better than that but he probably has average athleticism/speed. he makes up for it in other areas, but he'll probably never really be an elite guy as far as sack numbers are concerned.
                              And if he doesn't that would be another major draft fiasco for the Rams. When you draft high, you have the opportunity to turn your team around in a hurry. You get stuck with Barron's, Carriker's, and Hill's that really hurts you for years.

                              That's why I am against you can't draft certain positions high in the draft. If you can get a stud S instead of a maybe CB get him.


                              Related Topics


                              • DieHardRamsFan1381
                                make or break season for chris long
                                by DieHardRamsFan1381
                                dont get me worng i love chris long but he hasnt really put up a decent season yet. i mean at the end of last season i saw glimpes of how good he can be. but what is holding him back is it the supporting cast around him, the defencive scheme, or what. i mean in college he was a beast. i know the nfl is alot fast gameplay then college. but only 9 sacks in his first 2 seasons. mario williams first 2 seasons he had 18.5 sacks and played for a horrible team,jared allen had 20 in his first to seasons, and dwight freeney 24 sack in 2 seasons. i know chris hasnt had alot of other great players around him but his overall skill he should have know problem to have a 10 sack season. why is leonard little putting up better numbers then long. i mean since 2008 little hasnt played a full season yet puts up more sacks. why is he not an elite defencive end yet
                                -07-15-2010, 09:06 PM
                              • 39thebeast
                                Chris Long in Perspective
                                by 39thebeast
                                How many pure (Don't also play lb like Brian Orakpo or are in the 3-4) DE's in there first or second year have more sacks than Chris Long? The answer 2 Cliff Avril and Kroy Bierman with 4.5 and 5.
                                -12-26-2009, 08:26 PM
                              • AvengerRam_old
                                Lay off Chris Long already!
                                by AvengerRam_old
                                I am sick of people trying to put Chris Long on the "bust" list of Rams DL draftees. I understand the frustration over guys like Jimmy Kennedy, Damione Lewis, Adam Carriker and Claude Wroten, but Long does not belong with them.

                                Don't get me wrong... he's not an impact player, as one would hope a second overall pick would be.... yet. That's right... yet. Plenty of DEs that became Pro Bowl regulars took 3-4 years to become the dominating players they became.

                                The real issue here is sacks. Fans like sacks. Sacks are easy to evaluate. 10+ sacks, and you're a very good pass rusher. At this point, Long has not developed enough moves to be a guy who gets to the QB on a regular basis. Again, I'd throw in the words "not yet."

                                However, in the meantime, the guy is showing some productivity. After two games, he has 11 tackles. That equates to 88 for a season.

                                Guess how many DEs in the league had 88 tackles last season? That's right... NONE. (Trent Cole lead the league with 77).

                                The Rams have a lot of problems, and a lot of holes. Let's focus on them, and let Chris do his thing.
                                -09-21-2009, 07:28 AM
                              • NJ Ramsfan1
                                Chris Long
                                by NJ Ramsfan1
                                I know you cannot accurately judge someone based on their first year in the league, but I see nothing from Chris Long that shows me he's a game changer or the 2nd best player available in the 2008 draft. I didn't see the game today- I said three games ago I wasn't wasting my Sundays watching guys that looked as if they didn't want to be there- but did Long even play? He was credited with zero tackles. Hardly what you want from a guy who was drafted to be an impact player.
                                -12-07-2008, 08:11 PM
                              • tomahawk247
                                Chris Long and the four point stance
                                by tomahawk247
                                Have you seen that four point stance that Long lines up in? It looks odd, but cool at the same time, like he is about to pounce!

                                What an awesome season this guy is having. In a season where the Rams are struggling, he is playing so well. Considering that teams can run on this D with ease and don't need to pass much due to being in the lead often, the fact he has been able to rack up 10 sacks is ridiculous.

                                NFL Sack Stats
                                1. DeMarcus Ware 14
                                2. Jared Allen 13.5
                                3. Von Miller 10.5
                                3. Jason Pierre-Paul 10.5
                                5. Jason Babin 10
                                5. Chris Long 10

                                Just think: If Rod Hood hadn't pointlessly held his guy on Sunday, Chris Long would have got another sack and would be 3rd in the league!!
                                -11-29-2011, 02:32 AM