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  • Wanna Know What SUX?

    Assuming the Alex Barron trade goes through, the Rams will have a total of four players on the roster drafted between 2005 and 2007. Hats off to Victor Adeyanju, Clifton Ryan, OJ Atogwe, Ron Bartell for surviving the most tumultuous period of Rams football in recent memory. Your commemorative T-Shirt is in the mail. Seven rounds, multiple picks in many of them, and The St. Louis Rams managed so come away with four players still under contract. Three of them are solid starters. The other is a valuable backup.

    People wonder why the offense is anaemic. Rams fans pine for the heyday of 1999-2001 and will likely settle for a romp through 2006, the last time that the unit was even slightly cohesive for all sixteen games. To find anything that even slightly resembles an offensive starter you have to broaden the margins again. The 2004 draft heralded us Steven Jackson and the 2008 draft brought Donnie Avery to the spiral horns (and the jury is still out there). In five years, we've managed to draft two starters for our offense.

    Alex Barron? Gone.
    Richie Incognito? Buh-bye.
    Claude Terrell? See ya.
    Joe Klopfenstein, Dominique Byrd? You better believe it.
    Brian Leonard, Thanks for playing.

    You'll hear some posters go on and on about Marc Bulger. You'll hear how he single-handedly collapsed what was, until '06, a very good offensive unit, into a complete shambles. You'll hear that it was Marc Bulger's idea to throw the five yard hitch on every other passing play, to run it on third and ten and to never, ever attempt a pass over 20 yards in length.

    Let's talk about necessity. When you can only pull two offensive starters from five entire drafts, there's little wonder why the Rams were limited to short plays and long 3rd down conversions. There was no other choice. You'll hear from far and wide posters on this board and abroad who will happily assert that Marc Bulger killed this franchise. You want somebody to blame? Take a look at this guy:


    Here's your problem. He's responsible not only for Barron et al, but for the perennial failures we like to call Jerome Carter, Jon Wade, Jon Alston, Adam Carriker Claude Wroten and Tye Hill.

    So you want to know what SUX?


  • #2
    Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

    Yikes, really puts things in perspective. I was hopeful about the Linehan hiring, but man, I doubt we could have gotten a more disastrous head coach. Of course, bringing in players by the truckload from your former 1-15 team probably should have been a signal the Rams were on the same course.

    A monkey probably could have drafted better as well. Or throwing darts at the board. Or even....gulp.....letting the posters at Stltoday pick. That is a sad commentary onto itself

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

      Might be the worst period of drafting in NFL history..and entirely why we are where we are right now. Thanks Scotty!!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

        i can`t blame everything on one man. or atleast certainly not on Linehan....the yellow snowball started rolling long before Linehan was hired...to stop that snowball from getting bigger and bigger was too much for any man to do alone...bad hire for sure..but others should have been fired before he got onboard for him to ever have had a chance of succeeding.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

          He stepped into a crap filled trench and then proceeded to provide his own fecal matter. Its not just Linehan, it was a number of guys responsible here folks. I'm not a either/or guy and I don't like to place all blame on a single person because that is rarely the case, and it wasn't here. You have an entire FO and a coaching staff to blame here.

          I don't know if this was the worst period of drafting ever (Oakland anyone?) but its prett frekin appalling. Patience is needed to see a consistent winner again and whether you find waiting acceptable or not, your going to have to wait most likely.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

            Originally posted by Bar-bq View Post
            Assuming the Alex Barron trade goes through, the Rams will have a total of four players on the roster drafted between 2005 and 2007. Hats off to Victor Adeyanju, Clifton Ryan, OJ Atogwe, Ron Bartell for surviving the most tumultuous period of Rams football in recent memory. Your commemorative T-Shirt is in the mail. Seven rounds, multiple picks in many of them, and The St. Louis Rams managed so come away with four players still under contract. Three of them are solid starters. The other is a valuable backup.

            People wonder why the offense is anaemic. Rams fans pine for the heyday of 1999-2001 and will likely settle for a romp through 2006, the last time that the unit was even slightly cohesive for all sixteen games. To find anything that even slightly resembles an offensive starter you have to broaden the margins again. The 2004 draft heralded us Steven Jackson and the 2008 draft brought Donnie Avery to the spiral horns (and the jury is still out there). In five years, we've managed to draft two starters for our offense.

            Alex Barron? Gone.
            Richie Incognito? Buh-bye.
            Claude Terrell? See ya.
            Joe Klopfenstein, Dominique Byrd? You better believe it.
            Brian Leonard, Thanks for playing.

            You'll hear some posters go on and on about Marc Bulger. You'll hear how he single-handedly collapsed what was, until '06, a very good offensive unit, into a complete shambles. You'll hear that it was Marc Bulger's idea to throw the five yard hitch on every other passing play, to run it on third and ten and to never, ever attempt a pass over 20 yards in length.

            Let's talk about necessity. When you can only pull two offensive starters from five entire drafts, there's little wonder why the Rams were limited to short plays and long 3rd down conversions. There was no other choice. You'll hear from far and wide posters on this board and abroad who will happily assert that Marc Bulger killed this franchise. You want somebody to blame? Take a look at this guy:


            Here's your problem. He's responsible not only for Barron et al, but for the perennial failures we like to call Jerome Carter, Jon Wade, Jon Alston, Adam Carriker Claude Wroten and Tye Hill.

            So you want to know what SUX?

            I could go back even further than Linehan and post Mike Martz's mug and his drafts since we last appeared in the Superbowl because that's where the actual downfall began if you really want to be honest about it.

            The Rams remained competetive for as long as they did because of the incumbent talent on the team, not because Martz and co. enhanced it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

              scott linehan didn't draft Alex Barron, he was a Martz pick

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

                Originally posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
                I could go back even further than Linehan and post Mike Martz's mug and his drafts since we last appeared in the Superbowl because that's where the actual downfall began if you really want to be honest about it.

                The Rams remained competetive for as long as they did because of the incumbent talent on the team, not because Martz and co. enhanced it.
                For sure.. I was just thinking.. I felt like it was starting to fall when they let London go... great move there... he wouldn't of lasted for long ...The truth is Guys we can keep thinking of 99... Like the chicago fans still do about 85... or talk about the glory days like the Lions with Barry, or the Browns and take 3 games to turn on bradford ...Or we can get behind the new wave of blue and gold and look for things to start moving up... From now on we remember number 8 is our QB, and have faith in our coach.. Who has a plan thats sound.. and look for better days ahead

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

                  The Rams downfall after the Super Bowl XXXIV championship can be traced to the "ousting" of Dick Vermeil. Its been down hill every since that point and time. With Vermeil, the Rams would have no doubt collected at lease 2 more Lombardi's, cementing the teams legacy as a Dynasty.
                  As Dick would say, Its just a "Crying" shame!
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

                    You left out a few guys Linny dumped because he just didn't like them. Hedgecock comes to mind among others ..

                    Oh well - that was then and this is now. It is what it is. I have far more optimism about the way we are rebuilding under current management than under the former regime. It may take a couple more years to completely restock, but then again, maybe not .. We'll find out soon enough.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

                      While I agree that the Linehan era was a disaster, it was another HC that started the Rams slide.

                      Mike Martz

                      He took a great team and in a relatively short time turned it into the laughing stock it is today. Linehan didn't help, for sure, but the slide started long before Linehan came into the picture. He was, and still is an egotistical, self serving coach that wears out his welcome wherever he goes faster than you can say; "egotistical and self serving".

                      Just wait and see what happens in Chicago with him in there.... tic...tic...tic...tic...


                      Boom.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

                        There's plenty of blame to go around. Linehan was only here for a little over two seasons. Barron, Terrell, and Cogs were picked under the Martz regime.

                        You can't pin it all on Martz either, though. His record on offensive picks wasn't that bad; he had some disappointments like Barron and Canidate, but he also hit paydirt on guys like Kevin Curtis, Shaun McDonald, and of course Steven Jackson. It was really all the early round defensive busts from the Martz era that were so crippling, and frankly given Martz' lack of defensive acumen, one would assume that he probably was probably going with what his scouts and defensive coaches told him.

                        That brings us back to Shaw, Zygmunt, and the late Georgia Frontiere. The front office's track record during that period pretty much speaks for itself.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

                          Originally posted by Fleece
                          That brings us back to Shaw, Zygmunt, and the late Georgia Frontiere. The front office's track record during that period pretty much speaks for itself.
                          And yet again Fleece hits the proverbial nail on the proverbial head.

                          While I don't put a sin of commision on the head of Frontiere, she is responsible for a sin of omission. The sin of allowing Shaw and Zygmunt to destroy this franchise.

                          You wanna blame somebody? Pin the tail on those two donkeys. The guys who actually pulled all the triggers on this franchise. You know.....the LAWYER and the ACCOUNTANT that were making FOOTBALL decisions!

                          Blame Martz?
                          Blame Linehan?
                          Blame Vermeil?
                          Blame Bulger?

                          That's like blaming the chess pieces for losing the match. Blame the guy(s) moving the pieces.
                          The more things change, the more they stay the same.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

                            It could be the Rams are just plain old bad, period. The 1999-2001 years aside, the Rams since 1990 have been mostly atrocious. The Warner/Faulk years are a blip on the 20 year radar screen.

                            This comes down to front office and ownership. THE FO seems much better and now we are on the cusp of getting new ownership. There is hope we can finally get more consistent about being competitive. We are a few more players and an onwership away.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Wanna Know What SUX?

                              Have to agree with most of these threads on placing blame. Yet more leaning toward FO/Ownership as being the root cause. It all starts from the top.

                              The whole of the Rams disorganization lead to a host of missteps. Linehan was a symptom of a greater problem. No over sight--I still can't see where he wanted to take the team--his implied mandate was to keep Offense a strong and exciting. Yet to what end did he even attempt to do that?

                              Martz for all his offensive genious didnt have the leadership skills to maintain dicipline, nor keep the confidence of the team. Thread after thread outlined his short comings, and there is little need to rehash the Martz Era.

                              Its interesting how quickly Vermil stepped down as HC...and interestingly quick he became HC of the Chiefs. I wonder if he realized how vunerable the Rams where to imploding again. It wasn't soon after that the the defense collapsed and the Rams had to score 30+ points to have to win a game.

                              Yet regardless of what has came and went, what remained was FO/Ownership. Now that has changed and there is hope that the Rams will return to being respectable. Assuming this ownership issue gets resolved and quickly, hopefully the Rams will return to being one of the top 10 NFL teams

                              Comment

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                              • eldfan
                                Loaded with potential, and not much else
                                by eldfan
                                Loaded with potential, and not much else
                                by VanRam on Jan 30, 2009 4:18 PM CST in 2009 Off-Season (SI)

                                Unrealized potential. That's a familiar concept for Rams fans, all too familiar (my mother uses those terms about me alot too). I saw this entry on the Fifth Down blog a while back and meant to comment on it then, but head coaching excitement took over. Anyway, sticking with those guys that have potential but fail to translate is how a team gets so woefully devoid of talent. It's a problem that's plagued the Rams for a long time, killing not just coaches but setting the franchise back years in terms of building quality depth at key positions. Who are these loaded-wtih-potential anchors weighing down the team?

                                First, the theory at play here, from Don Shula's 1972 book, "The Playmakers"

                                A lot of coaches have a tendency stay too long with people with potential. We call them coach killers. As soon as you find out who the coach killers are on your team, the better off you are. You go with the guys who may have lesser talent, but more dedication, more singleness of purpose. You spot them and stick with them because in a big game, they’ll win it for you.

                                Just off the top of my head, here's a look at some of the Rams players, loaded with potential, but light on performance. I'm keeping this limited to players still on the roster, sorry Jimmy Kennedy fans.

                                OT Alex Barron - the poster boy for this. Once thought to be the replacement for Orlando Pace, the penalty machine known as Alex Barron has been hit and miss for so long, you kind of take him for granted. Had Barron lived up to his potential, the Rams offense would have looked much different these last tow years. What to do about '09, his last season under contract?

                                TE Joel Klopfenstein - Had he lived up to his potential, Bulger would have had the mid-field target he so desperately needed on quick dumpoffs with McMichael out of the lineup. In fact, had Klop lived up to his promise, the team wouldn't have even signed McMichael. I can't imagine this guy's on the team for '09.

                                CB Tye Hill - Injury-riddled, Hill showed some of that potential down the stretch in '06, but really hit rock bottom this season, getting burned by the no-namest of no-name receivers before hitting IR. Obviously, he's not starting for the Rams this season, which makes it easier to keep him on the roster. Ron Bartell sure was worth the wait, but he played much better than Hill at the same point in his career. Does Hill get one more chance in the Spagnuolo era?

                                FB Brian Leonard - He did play one game this season, his second in the league. He might not be on this list at all were it not for the fact that the Rams drafted him in the second round. What role does he really have going forward? He's not good enough to be the #2 RB we need; he's not the blocking FB we need, and Kenneth Darby has him beat...
                                -02-03-2009, 12:55 PM
                              • RamWraith
                                Fans may bail out, but Rams still gotta go to work
                                by RamWraith
                                By Jeff Gordon
                                STLTODAY.COM SPORTS COLUMNIST
                                10/25/2007

                                Andy McCollum is an old pro. He knows the drill. The Rams are 0-7 with no real hope of salvaging this season, but they must play on.

                                “We have to keep working,” McCollum said. “There is really no choice. We’re different than like high school. I mean, this is a job. It’s what we do. Regardless of what the results were last week or the week before, we still have to go out and do a job.

                                “You’re getting paid to do a job and you have to make sure you do it to the best of your ability. You have to take that same mindset into the game, and into every play as well. Whatever happened the last play, you’ve got to make the next play and do what you have to do. I try to look at it that way. Hopefully the other guys will as well.

                                But there is more to it than that. Although this season has gotten away, what happens in the weeks ahead will have a huge impact on what happens next season.

                                How good will the Rams perform in 2008?

                                Will this coaching regime still be in charge next season? Will the front office structure remain intact?


                                And what will become of all these players? How good are these young players, really? How many of these proven veterans will return?

                                What happens during the next nine games will go a long way toward answering those questions. So finding motivation during these difficult times should NOT all that difficult.

                                Scott Linehan and his staff better make the most of every game -– and the same goes for the players.

                                For instance, why would the People in Charge want to pay veteran money to keep kicker Jeff Wilkins around if this team keeps losing?

                                He has missed his share of field goals this season, so there would be no reason to pay any sort of premium for his services going forward.

                                Why would the front office pay up to keep Isaac Bruce? It would be great to see him finish his career as a Ram, but can there be any place for sentimentality on a team that tanks?

                                Wouldn’t the franchise be better off freeing up salary cap space?

                                If the Rams bottom out, can the franchise remain committed to Marc Bulger for the long haul? Or would it be appropriate to draft the Quarterback of the Future and re-cast Bulger into the role of mentor?

                                A team learns a lot about its quarterback in times of extreme difficulty. As Bernie Miklasz observes elsewhere on this site, the Rams have the right to be worried about what Bulger is showing them.

                                Then there are all the young players who may or may not be rebuilding blocks. During the next nine games, the Rams must learn whether tackle Alex Barron and guard Richie Incognito are really cornerstones for the offensive line.

                                The front office believed that was the case when the season started. Will that view...
                                -10-25-2007, 04:55 PM
                              • Varg6
                                From Marc's words...Who are the culprits?
                                by Varg6
                                Marc Bulger as we all know was not happy today. None of us were...but he said that even losing against a team like this, there ARE people on the team that don't care...

                                I'm just asking the other clan members, who do you think are the culprits that Bulger is referring to? I think one of them is definitely Alex Barron.

                                Your thoughts?
                                -12-03-2006, 05:43 PM
                              • C-Mob 71
                                Bulger's Inability or O line's Incompetence
                                by C-Mob 71
                                I'm not gonna lie, I've always liked Bulger. But as I was watching the game today I found myself extremely angry at Marc. Some of his throws made me furious. His decision making was bad, as he tried to force it to Avery in triple coverage. He also missed a wide open Dante Hall on a critical third down, instead he threw it to a covered Avery. And after the pick I was ready to can him.

                                But as the night went on I calmed down. The truth of the matter is that the Patriots front seven completely manhandled our o line. I'm not sure that all five of them at once could have blocked Richard Seymor. He was a beast, and throw in Adalius Thomas and we were in trouble. And there was also that one play that either Ty Warren or Vince Wilfork went UNBLOCKED. How can you miss a 300 plus pound man? Something has to be done, I blame the o's inability to move the ball on the offensive line.

                                So what do we do, because i continue to have faith in a few o lineman. I judge them on their ability to block, not how many penalties they commit. I believe that can be fixed, lack of talent can not. It is under that theory that I support Richie Incognito. I remember one specific run play where I saw Barron and possibly Bect getting up BEHIND the line of scrimmage. Richie was the only lineman in the pile where Pittman was. IMHO this means he must have got his block, where as the other two were left in the dust.

                                I'm not ready to give up on Bell yet either, heck we need to give him at least one full ear before passing judgement.

                                Orlando is getting old, it happens. He was the BEST in his prime, but that has past. He is a detriment to this line. They can't keep guessing whether or not he will play. We need new, young blood through the draft. And we need him to start day one.

                                I'm not sure about Barron, I think he just isn't playing up to his potential. he makes too many crucial mistakes, I hate to say it because I've liked him all along. He did a good enough job last year. I hope he can mature, but it's getting close to the time to move on.

                                In my opinion, Nick Leckey is the worst starting player in the NFL. I cannot back up that opinion, it is just how I feel. I've read Matt Birk's name thrown around, and I am 100% for it. He may be getting old, but look what Kevin Mawae is doing in Tennessee.

                                So alas, all I can suggest is changing two players to shore up a porous o line. Albeit they are the two most important positions though, a stud rookie Left Tackle, to protect Bulger's blind side, and a free agent veteran Center, to take control of this line and bring some respect back to the trenches of STL.


                                PS, I was in a car all day since watching the game. I don't really post much, but I really needed a place to vent. Thanks Clan.
                                -10-26-2008, 09:21 PM
                              • RamWraith
                                Take Five: What we like about the Rams, and what needs fixing
                                by RamWraith
                                BY JEFF GORDON
                                STLTODAY.COM SPORTS COLUMNIST
                                01/02/2007


                                So what are we to make of the Rams season?

                                Scott Linehan sized up the 8-8 finish during his Tuesday news conference and figured the campaign was average. In this corner of cyberspace, we agree.

                                Was it a good season or a bad season? Neither, really, so we’ll slap a “C” on the whole thing and start looking forward.


                                Here are the five things we like most about the state of the Rams:




                                1. The offensive line got young.

                                This had to happen sooner or later, so the injuries suffered by center Andy McCollum and guard Adam Timmerman just sped things along. The Doughnut Brothers are done.

                                Guards Richie Incognito and Mark Setterstrom and center Brett Romberg appear to have bright futures, which is a LARGE development. Those three, plus tackles Alex Barron and Orlando Pace, should give the Rams offense a nice foundation for next season.


                                2. Steven Jackson broke out, growing from “very good” to “elite” during the 2006 season.

                                If you asked NFL general managers to name the players they would most like to build around, Jackson would have to make the Top 20.

                                “This guy basically said, ‘Hey, jump on my back. I’m going to try to carry you as far as I can,' ” Linehan said. “If this year is any indication, I’d say we have a pretty bright future.”


                                3. QB Marc Bulger settled into the new offense.

                                Through the middle of the season, he struggled to make downfield connections with Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce and Kevin Curtis.

                                During the last three victories, that was NOT an issue. The offense appears to be in excellent shape heading forward. We’d like to see the Rams commit to Curtis and give him a bigger offensive role -– although Bruce really looked fresh at the end of the season.


                                4. Young defensive backs Tye Hill, O.J. Atogwe and Ron Bartell grew this season, giving the beleaguered “D” something to look build upon.

                                Jerametrius Butler will move on. The forever-injured Travis Fisher will be out as well.


                                5. All is not lost on the front seven.

                                Will Witherspoon, Pisa Tinoisamoa and Leonard Little are impact players. Defensive end/tackle Claude Wroten showed something. So did ends Victor Adeyanju and Brandon Green.


                                And here are the five things we worry the most about:


                                1. The middle of the Rams defense is soft!

                                Witherspoon was miscast as a middle linebacker and Jimmy Kennedy was miscast at nose tackle.

                                Defensive tackle La’ Roi Glover made some plays, but he may be a change-of-pace player at this point in his career. The Rams need to hoard stout rookies and free agents for the middle of the D.


                                2. Linehan...
                                -01-03-2007, 04:59 AM
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