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Our coaches... Good enough?

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  • Our coaches... Good enough?

    Let's assume Spagnolo has a grip on the Defensive side of the ball, but across the hall who has a clue? Can the OC get this bunch ready? Can he make his scheme work. Does he even have a scheme? As of now we don't have more talent, we have more bodies. Can these guys lay out the fundamentals and get everyone on the field to run toward the same goalpost. After what we saw from this staff last season I'm worried. Did they do the best they could considering all the injuries and our depth. Could someone have done better at least in getting the team fundamentally sound?

    Can someone analyze Shumur's background and his staff?
    Look away. I'm hideous. __ Cozmo Kramer

  • #2
    Re: Our coaches... Good enough?

    I think we can ask these questions about every team in the league.

    I'd like to borrow your talent quantifier. Does it mean that we have to add players that you've heard of? Does that make them have talent? None of our players have any kind of talent or potential? What did the staff do that was so bad given the situation? Could someone have done better is anyone's guess. I guess we cycle through every FA coach and try them all out...changing our scheme every time.

    If in three years our players look lost out on the field and we have yet to improve significantly then you move on. You don't move on annually nor can you really make a fair assessment of the staff given what they had last year and the usual god awful injury rate for the few players we did have.


    • #3
      Re: Our coaches... Good enough?

      We will see this season. It's their team. No blaming Martz, Linehan, Ziggy, Shaw, or anyone else of the past.


      • #4
        Re: Our coaches... Good enough?

        Well if you remember last season the offensive play-calling was flat out horrible and way to conservative in the begging of the season. But i honestly say it got better alot better toward the end. Shurmur still has a long way to go with his playcalling but now he can groom a QB with all the talent in Sam Bradford so we just have to stay tuned.

        Maybe Shumur will get more aggressive and go for some other pass than a 3-4 yard slant now that he has a good decision maker at QB.


        • #5
          Re: Our coaches... Good enough?

          Originally posted by BarronWade View Post
          Well if you remember last season the offensive play-calling was flat out horrible and way to conservative in the begging of the season. But i honestly say it got better alot better toward the end. Shurmur still has a long way to go with his playcalling but now he can groom a QB with all the talent in Sam Bradford so we just have to stay tuned.

          Maybe Shumur will get more aggressive and go for some other pass than a 3-4 yard slant now that he has a good decision maker at QB.
          That's what scares me about the offense. If Shurmur was way too conservative with a veteran like Bulger, what will he do with a young inexperienced Bradford? Can it get anymore vanilla?

          What this team needs on offense is another strong RB. Jackson has proven he can't play a 16 game season anymore. His body can't take it because of the style of running back he is. Back problems DO NOT go away. The Rams need a good back that can spell Jackson during the game and throughout the season. The Rams offense will have to be vanilla early on, at least, and that means lots of Jackson.

          No, I don't see the Rams suddenly opening it up with Bradford (assuming of course he is the starter opening day, and that's not a given), instead, I see more of the same, very conservative quick and safe dumpoffs and runs to Jackson.


          • #6
            Re: Our coaches... Good enough?

            I think coaching is a valid concern with this team. Still, it would be ridiculous to judge a coaching staff on what was basically a 'gutting year' last year.
            They have a new weapon at QB this year, lets see if they can be a little more creative.


            • #7
              Re: Our coaches... Good enough?

              Not thrilled with Dick Curl as the guy developing Bradford.I wish we had Trestman or, lawdy, Gruden. I forget Curl's title at KC but I remember reading that he was the one advocating for Brodie Croyle as the guy to develop.A year or so later, they fired Edwards & got Cassel from The Patsies so I guess that didn't go well... With the Jets ( I guess Herm took Curl with him to KC after getting canned in NY), I think the absurdly-named Dick Curl was assistant HC but they gave him some BS assignment as a time out manager. Apparently, they had some major issues & he was supposed to stay on top of that. The NY media dubbed him Grandfather Clock..., I don't think he helped them improve much in that department,either, from what I recall in the blurb about him.

              He seems to be someone that everyone in the NFL coaching fraternity knows & has worked with at some time.Whether that means he gets jobs that he doesn't deserve out of sentimental connections or not, I can't say.

              For those who don't know who I'm talking about , Curl's the crusty-looking old guy with the snow white hair that you always see Spags talking to during games. Clearly he has the HC's ear. I hope he knows what he's doing with our new gazillion dollar baby.

              The jury's out on RB coach Croom for me as well.Not sure he deserves any credit for SJ's maturation and he certainly didn't get much playing time for Darby, Gado, or Ogby, did he?

              All in all, I think TX is totally right; these guys have a lot on their plate this year. A franchise QB, lots of "project picks" where some quick development would help a lot, at DE especially, and they remained firm in their approach to not deflect attention from their roles/ responsibility by grabbing some names or taking the possibly "safer' option of Suh or a trade down for bulk picks.

              Personally, I like the confidence. Who knows if they can get the recipe right but it is no longer a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth which can't hurt. I trust in DeSpags in that sense; I think they have a specific plan & their staff is well aware of it even if it isn't totally clear to the fans yet. We'll see, I guess.


              • #8
                Re: Our coaches... Good enough?

                I 100% agree with he vanilla comment. Seeing the games live last year you could call out the play before they happened it was very uninspired.


                • #9
                  Re: Our coaches... Good enough?

                  Originally posted by RAMFANRAIDERHATER View Post

                  What this team needs on offense is another strong RB. Jackson has proven he can't play a 16 game season anymore. His body can't take it because of the style of running back he is. Back problems DO NOT go away. The Rams need a good back that can spell Jackson during the game and throughout the season. The Rams offense will have to be vanilla early on, at least, and that means lots of Jackson.
                  I couldn't agree more. This is what I've been saying and we haven't addressed this "major" issue.

                  sigpic :ram::helmet:


                  • #10
                    Re: Our coaches... Good enough?

                    the offense did much worse this season then the 08 season....... I hated it....... in 08 we were still losing but at least we were scoring decently.......


                    • #11
                      Re: Our coaches... Good enough?

                      Maybe its due to the fact that our WRs and TEs suck, I recall so many dropped balls. That could be one reason for conservative play calling.


                      • #12
                        Re: Our coaches... Good enough?

                        I remember recently some guy named Armen making a point about how young players already on our roster will be much improved this year, and that this will translate to more on field success. Can't the same thing be expected of our coaching staff? Spags, Schurmur, and Flajole were all rookies at their respective coaching positions last year. I expect they'll be better this year now that they've had a year's experience. Unless we go 0-16 or 1-16, these guys will probably get another year. Year 3 will be the clincher as to whether or not they're what Chip hoped for when they were hired. I'm certainly not ruling out being pleasantly surprised this year either, I'm not counting on it just yet though ..


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                        • LaRamsFanLongTime
                          This team
                          by LaRamsFanLongTime
                          Does anyone really think this team is as bad as we are playing right now? I had high hopes for this season and took it pretty badly when we started losing right out the gates. I am trying to think of why and it is so obvious.

                          Is it the Coaches fault? It can be but with all the injuries how do you come up with any consistancy in your playbook? Short passes QB dies long Passes QB dies. RB hurt plus the whole line hurt = no run game to take pressure off beat up QB's. So no I could not put this on the coach. Take away Welker, Tom Brady, and The whole o-line and the Patriots are not a great team.

                          Lets see now defense? Yeah they still suck and have weekness in every spot. That is an area though I fealt going into this season that was a huge ????? The defense is definatly rebuilding and hopefully the high pick we get will be used on a immediate difference maker.

                          Offense see the coach area we all know that an offense that banged up could not put up the numbers we are used too around these parts. Last week though we saw some life out of them.

                          So the obvious choice is the reoccuring week defense and banged up offense. I am not sitting here thinking this team will be bad for the next 10 years. I think this season was an injury plagued season that will be long forgotten by mid season next year. Yes I do know that is a long time but we have no choice but to wait it out now do we?

                          I think we let Linehan have at least a healthy season to see if he can right the ship. If this team faulters next year then a change should be made. BTW is it just me or should the conditioning coach be put out to pasture.
                          -11-01-2007, 04:37 PM
                        • Tampa_Ram
                          What changed?????
                          by Tampa_Ram
                          In 2006 we had an 8-8 record, Bulger was at the top of his game, Jackson had a career year as well with a top 5 all time total yards from scrimmage year. Our offense clicked.

                          So what happened?

                          Linehan was in his first year of HC.

                          How did we go from a year like that to what we are now? 8-8 in your first year as HC is not bad at all. But your supposed to get better, not the opposite.

                          Did the play calling change?

                          Was it the injuries?

                          Was it that the team that played well was still Martz's team, left over with his ideals of how to play???
                          And Linehan had not yet takin over the players and lost them?

                          Was it the play calling? How did the play calling change so much in 1 year? injuries? lack of confidence in the players? the coach?

                          Was it the free agents we picked up? players we let go(Hedgecock, Bruce, etc.)?

                          Was this a fault of the FO? Is management the main culprit in this?

                          What to you is the reason we have spiraled so far down? Because we have i believe, and if you disagree id love to know why?

                          Coming off a 3-13 season, we are 0-2, have the worst defense and offense. Players dont seem to care anymore if they win or lose just as long as there getting paid. Not all of course, as we've all recently read Holt's challenge for the O-line to step up, and im sure there are still many players with a desire to win, my favorite beside Holt is the young, great Chris Long.

                          But of course the main point of this thread-

                          What are the pieces of the puzzle that have lead to us being one of the worst teams in the NFl, if not the worst.

                          I believe we arnt a bad team, we have talent and skill and at least one coach(Saunders)that i still believe in at the moment. We can win, our pieces just arnt coming together, on any front at the moment.

                          So what happened? Well, i think its a combination of all of what i just wrote. Transition, FA, draft, pLay calling, injuries, coaching, conditioning, FO, carelessness, lack of desire, FO, etc...yes i know i put FO in there twice....

                          What are your thoughts?

                          p.s. when will the first win of the season come? today!!!! The seahags are going down!!!!!!!

                          GO RAMS!!!!!
                          -09-21-2008, 02:24 AM
                        • viper
                          Get Over It...Who's Next!
                          by viper
                          My fellow Rams fans,

                          Get your head out of your perpendiculiar! Sure it's been a tough week...a tough five weeks. Are you all going to lay around and cry about it or get some attitude and get behind your team!. I'm never going to be a member of this SLOP. It just doesn't sound good, and its just not right. This is our coach, and for now, he is the leader of our team!

                          I don't have any interest in listening to those negative vibes. Are we are we Are we all Rams fans...HELL YES!!!

                          Av, if you want to play your mind games to get the dialogue going, I don't have a problem with that. But, these are our RAMS! You don't need to put one Rams fan against puppets on a string. I have nothing but respect for your contributions on this board, but, why would you choose to polarize the ClanRam? I cannot understand that for a minute.

                          That said, I don't think anyone here will discount the horrid play calling in the Panthers game, nor the lack of effort that we have seen over the last few weeks. But, I believe in our new coach and what he's trying to accomplish. No, I'm not happy with what has transpired recently, but, I think we all have to remember that he's a new coach, a 1st year coach, that needs to feel his way through and learn from his first year.

                          Do I have anything against the SLOP people? No, I understand their frustration. Do I think the criticism is premature? No I don't. Do I think calling for our coach's head at this time is crazy? Yes I do. This is not a question of loyalty. It is a question of faith. And I think many of you lack the faith and patience it takes to put in the building blocks to truly turn a team around. Linehan did not inherit a 12-4 team. He got a 6-10 team that was questionable at best. None of us felt we would be a playoff caliber team this year, yet many of you believe we have failed. We have not failed, we have done what most of us expected us to do. Granted, we have not done it in the fashion that we had hoped, but guess what, neither have the Steelers or many other teams that should have done better this year. Look at John Gruden and his he a fake or a respectable coach? Cut your team some slack people. Sit back and have a drink or whatever it is you do...its gonna take some time.

                          Nine games does not a season make. Nor a first year rookie coach! You can complain all you want about the way we came to be 4-5. But, the fact remains, our offensive line is a disaster, in shambles, and our QB is getting pumelled. For years our run defense has been a joke and we can't defend a pass to save our life.

                          Is everything right in Ramsville? No. Well, it hasn't been for a long time. Long before the new coaching staff got here. For chriminey sakes, with all of the injuries on the line, a new head coach (who I agree could be doing better in his play calling), and questionable personnel on all 3 sides of...
                          -11-21-2006, 09:30 PM
                        • rNemesis
                          HOW CLOSE IS THIS TEAM TO COMPETING?(VERY LONG)Please provide feedback
                          by rNemesis
                          First of all let me just say that these last few years have been VERY frustrating and embarassing for me as a RAM FAN and I'm sure you guys are just as disappointed. I have watched my team go from the greatest show on turf to, as a washington post columnist said after the redskins loss, " the most miserable mass on grass". MY main question here is , " How far are the rams from being a decent competitive rock solid team? Its a long way to go; it doesnt happen overnight but it shouldnt take FOREVER either.

                          But I am not gonna sit here and talk about that all night. We know what has happened. We know what we've become. 13 straight losses dating back to last season. 3-13 in 2007 and 2-14 in 2008. 5 wins in the last 30 or so games? ( not sure exactly the stats) That is horrible.

                          Let's go back year by year as to how we finished record wise.
                          In the 1990's we were bad. But so were other teams which are now good today. But if you look at our 90's record to others, you will see that we were bad most of those years. Other teams had bad years too during the 90's but it was only really the lions, bengals, cardinals and saints. That should show you how bad of a team the Rams are. We never finished over 7 wins from 1990 up until 1999, which was our superbowl year. Which now tells me that the Rams have been bad, are now bad, and I hope we dont continue to be bad. But lately one has to believe that that is the penalty for our actions.

                          2000- 10-6 DECENT
                          2001- 14-2 ( excellent; we beat the pats that season but lost in the SB to the same :|)
                          2002- 7-9 Not bad
                          2003- 12-4 excellent
                          2004- 8-8 not bad; competitive
                          2005- I think we were 7-9 or 6-10 cant remember
                          2006- 8-8
                          2007- 3-13 horrible
                          2008- 2-14 lousy

                          I am not surprised at how we have fallen so badly. What I cant seem to understand is how fast we have fallen as such. How come we havent been able to stop the bleeding and bounce back like other teams have seemed to?

                          So tell me guys. How far off is this team from competing? Well, I look at the league and I have noticed that most of the other teams have playmakers in a lot of key positions. Why is that? Because they do a great job of DRAFTING PLAYERS THAT FIT INTO THEIR SCHEME WELL. We on the other hand have not done that lately. We have drafted players that have done well IN THEIR SCHEME and so it didnt matter to the previous regime ( Jay ZYgmunt ) if they fit or not the point was they wanted them so much that they drafted them regardless of their college scheme and success. In the era since Martz left, we have drafted the likes of busts ( or so they appear to be) like Tye Hill, Adam Carriker, Claude Wroten, Fakhir Brown, etc. The list goes on and on.

                          THIS HAS REALLY HURT THIS ORGANIZATION SO MUCH THAT IT IS REARING ITS UGLY HEAD NOW. Bad drafting has put us in such a talentless hole that...
                          -09-29-2009, 06:43 PM
                        • RamsFanSam
                          OK, convince me!
                          by RamsFanSam
                          I have read plenty of posts from people saying fans shouldn't look at the bright side of last night's defeat, that instead we should all don sackcloth and ashes, and mourn the death of the 2008 season for our Rams.

                          Convince me why I should!

                          I watched only the first quarter, but I did listen to the entire game. Of course, the TV broadcast was done by the Titans Network, meaning that the commentary was biased in favor of the Titans. The other 3 quarters was a mix of NFL's gamecenter and KTVI audio, niether of which was very good.

                          What I came out of the media barrage I witnessed is the following:

                          1. Marc looked a little rusty. Of course, considering that there was only TWO others on the offense who had ever played in Saunder's system, I expected to see some confusion. But, I guess that since Marc didn't launch a 99 yard Hail Mary for 6 on the first possession means that Marc is all washed up. After all, when a reciever isn't in the right place at the right time, it's always the QB's fault.

                          2. I also saw a really good defense beat our O-line. Considering that these front five guys have NEVER played a single game together before, We know it's all Pace's fault. He is all washed up, and we should have traded for Jake Long and then overpaid him to take Pace's spot.

                          3. I saw 2 passes go long, so long that no one on either team had a chance to get to them. It didn't matter that both times the recievers were double covered and had no chance in hell of breaking away, those recievers must suck, so we should have traded them for some untested rookie. Darn Linehan for drafting someone who has skills that our offense could use instead of some other rookie!

                          4. I saw our defense get beat up. Badly. Even though they made a solid stand in the red zone, we know they suck. It doesn't matter that some of our starters were out, we should have beaten the Titans back into the stone age with undersized, inexperienced rookies. It's all Haslett's fault for not having UFA's and rookies available that we can afford.

                          5. Our "wannabe's" didn't come back in the second half and win the game. Of course, they have had a whole 90 days or so to forget everything they ever learned about football just to learn football all over again. I forget that other millionaires such as Bill Gates have been there before. Didn't he have to forget everything he knew about Windows 98 to learn Windows XP in just 90 days? He didn't? Oh my. Those rookies and coaches have to go....NOW!

                          So, as you can see, I am NOT saying everything will be OK by next week. In fact, I'll be happy if we win 3 of our first 8, and come out 8-8 this season. I know all is not well in St. Louis as of yet, and I didn't expect it to be. Last year I had hope, because everything was in place. This year, we have a tougher schedule, most of our great players are either gone or they are getting...
                          -08-10-2008, 03:41 PM