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  • #1

    For those of you who want a new D....

    How do you do it? There is not room in the salary cap currently to buy what you need. DB's, especially really good ones, aren't cheap. They are almost as much if not more than elite WR's and RB's currently.

    Here are some questions.....

    1. Do you not sign Pace to a long term contract, get a young stud in the draft and sign an elite DB?
    2. Do you let Faulk walk when his contract is up and utilize that money on the defensive side of the ball?
    3. Do you attempt to restructure Bruce's current contract for DB help?

    I know Polley won't be back next year as he is an unrestricted FA. So that may free up a little dough.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: For those of you who want a new D....

    At the risk of being burned for heretical statements, I vote for...
    Originally posted by Tx
    2. Do you let Faulk walk when his contract is up and utilize that money on the defensive side of the ball?
    I feel bad for saying it, but this may be the best answer.
    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: For those of you who want a new D....

      No, you let Pace walk after the immature behavior and use that money for a lineman and someone on the defensive side. You can't let Marshall walk.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: For those of you who want a new D....

        Originally posted by DJRamFan
        No, you let Pace walk after the immature behavior and use that money for a lineman and someone on the defensive side. You can't let Marshall walk.
        The reason I would let Faulk go is because we have his replacement. If we let Pace go, we have to find a replacement for him (which we won't) just to get back to where we are now.
        The more things change, the more they stay the same.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: For those of you who want a new D....

          TX-

          I think the answer depends on if you want to re-load immediately, or can afford to wait 2-3 years as part of a re"building" plan.

          The answer also might depend on who the DC is at the time. Right now - the DC job is vacant IMO. (or it will be shortly!)

          I will respond again, when I have time.

          ARF

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: For those of you who want a new D....

            how about all the above...

            Jackson will be ready to repalce Faulk
            Restucturing Bruce may be tricky seeing how he is performing this year
            and Pace is eating away at this teams ability to stay in the elite group. can we at least get a #1 pick for him !!

            the money saved on Pace can bring in some solid performers on hte OL.. i.e. a left and right guard (no supermen required just solid)

            The rest of the dosh goes on defense as this unit needs a lot of help. Firstly I think that the DL has steadily improved this year (i know i was bagging them early on) I think their lack of size and experience has been unduly emphasised due to the lack of support by the rest of the team. Still i think we should find an experinced DT in the FA market.

            Polley will definetly go - chillar replaces
            Thomas - i think he makes an adequate backup but we really need a beast in this position.. this is where the FA/trade money goes
            Pisa - will improve with a motivational leadership

            DB's - I think this unit is a shambles. personally I would completely overhaul it in the offseason.. we have to find replacements for both CB's and Aeneas (still have faith in archuleta).. like Tx, I don't think we can complete in the FA market for the few quality DB's available so will come down to draft and luck. Early to say but we must go for DB and OT with number one picks (assuming we get a #1 for Pace) DB in the second round.

            Oh... and while we're at it.. lets stop giving losers a chance... Marmie has to pack his bags.

            Side note: I still believe Bulger and the offense will be a lot better off with a quality TE

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: For those of you who want a new D....

              Lovie got alot more out of mostly the same defensive players we have now.
              Although there are few outstanding players an our D roster, I (IMHO) believe that the D cooridinator is to blame here. Our D ranking swapped places with his former team, the Cardinals. Is this merely a coinsidence? I doubt it.

              Aeneas has made a heads up strip of the ball in 2 of the last few games. His experience / leadership is a big plus.

              NO WAY we cut Marshall and "supermen" protecting the QB is exactly what we need.

              Most of us as Ram fans were concerned with the selection of Marmie before the season ever started. We proved to be correct (again). Why doesn't the front office see these things? Most of us do.
              Could it be about $$$$? If so, then fire the owner.

              :helmet: GO RAMS

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: For those of you who want a new D....

                Originally posted by DJRamFan
                No, you let Pace walk after the immature behavior and use that money for a lineman and someone on the defensive side. You can't let Marshall walk.
                With Pace gone, be prepared to watch the offense match the current defense's poor play then. By letting him walk, we get NOTHING and have no replacement for him. Bulger's taking enough hits as it is. I doubt he'd welcome losing one of the game's elite left tackles because we're trying to make a moral point. If Pace is moved at all, we should tender and trade him and at least get something.

                The best answer is to let Faulk walk or even release him. Faulk signed a seven-year, $44 million extension in July 2002, according to the Associated Press, which expires ion 2008. We'll need that cap room before then. Heck, we might need it next season. Unless Marshall restructures, I'd say that's the best option. Asking Bruce to restructure probably wouldn't hurt either.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: For those of you who want a new D....

                  Originally posted by elAcky
                  the money saved on Pace can bring in some solid performers on hte OL.. i.e. a left and right guard (no supermen required just solid)

                  The rest of the dosh goes on defense
                  I'd love to hear what your plan for protecting Marc Bulger's blindside is then, since no money saved from dealing Pace will be used to find his replacement. Are you to draft a left tackle with the first rounder we get from Pace? How do we shore up the right side of the line, then?

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: For those of you who want a new D....

                    I doubt he'd welcome losing one of the game's elite left tackles because we're trying to make a moral point. If Pace is moved at all, we should tender and trade him and at least get something.
                    Not trying to make a moral point here.. all i'm saying is that the current state of the OL is a direct consequence of us putting all our eggs into Pace's basket.. i think Bulger will get a lot better protection if we distribute the talent evenly along the line... after all, seems to work for the Pats.

                    re: draft a RT.. if we let him sit behind williams for a year then eventually we might just do that (upgrade that position).. obviously we will need to bring in a steady LT to replace 70% of Pace. but personally i prefer 70% of Pace with an upgrade across the rest of the line to what we have today.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: For those of you who want a new D....

                      Originally posted by Hacksaw
                      NO WAY we cut Marshall and "supermen" protecting the QB is exactly what we need.
                      With Pace gone, be prepared to watch the offense match the current defense's poor play then. By letting him walk, we get NOTHING and have no replacement for him. Bulger's taking enough hits as it is. I doubt he'd welcome losing one of the game's elite left tackles because we're trying to make a moral point. If Pace is moved at all, we should tender and trade him and at least get something.

                      The best answer is to let Faulk walk or even release him. Faulk signed a seven-year, $44 million extension in July 2002, according to the Associated Press, which expires ion 2008. We'll need that cap room before then. Heck, we might need it next season. Unless Marshall restructures, I'd say that's the best option. Asking Bruce to restructure probably wouldn't hurt either.
                      Well then, you get what you pay for. Pace is going to break the bank on the open market or we just tag him again and plan on spending 8.5 million along with the 6.4 in Warner dead money. 15 million could go a long way in shoring up the defense. I realize that the dead money on Warner is what it is, dead. Can't use it. Just trying to emphasize my point. You can't have a stellar offense and a stellar defense at the same time without making some decisions that may not be popular with the fan base. So we keep Pace.....Marshall dosen't restructure and neither does Bruce. We will be in the same cap scenario next year as this year with the same type of ballclub. The DT's are coming around, but the LB's, CB's and S positions are not very good. Yes, we have talent in Arch and Aeneas but Aeneas won't be around much longer. Long term view? If the Rams don't free up some cap room on the offensive side of the ball, don't EVER expect the defense to be very good.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: For those of you who want a new D....

                        1. We can't let Pace walk. I think he'll sign a long-term deal before next season. He dropped the Postons after all.

                        2. We need Faulk on this team to help Steven Jackson. Faulk is the teacher that will only make Jackson better in the future.

                        3. Bruce could restructure since he seems like the kinda guy to do that. However, I wouldn't blame him seeing as he's still putting up awesome numbers.

                        4. I agree that we need to draft OT-DB in the first two rounds of the 2005 draft. I think Michael Munoz will be available when we draft for round one, and maybe we can pick up someone like Brimmer (S - UNLV) or Butler (S - Georgia Tech). I don't think Archuleta is what we're looking for at SS. He just seems like he misses too many tackles.

                        5. Key free agents in 2005 that I'd gladly welcome on the Rams: Ed Hartwell (Ravens will most likely let him walk, could be the solid MLB the Rams need and could possibly be afforded when Polley is gone), or crazy Chris Hovan (not on good terms with Mike Tice, has been benched for the last 2 games I believe). Andre Dyson or Fred Smoot would be an improvement over our corners and we could move Butler back to nickel. But once again, finances would prevent us from bringing in more than one of the aforementioned players.

                        6. On offense the only problem spot I see is at Right Tackle. Other than that we should be solid next year, but this defense needs to be overhauled. The only players I see worth keeping in the starting lineup is Leonard Little (who knows if he'll be available), Pisa, and Travis Fisher (second CB). Aeneas still offers leadership that's hard to turn away but let's face it. We may need to head another direction after this year.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: For those of you who want a new D....

                          Originally posted by ZigZag
                          2. We need Faulk on this team to help Steven Jackson. Faulk is the teacher that will only make Jackson better in the future.
                          ZZ, I understand what you're saying, but I don't know if we can afford to pay $7 million to a teacher. Faulk is still good, and I hate to see him go, but by next year Jackson will be our best option at RB (IMHO), and we can't afford to pay roughly $7 million to a back-up RB.
                          The more things change, the more they stay the same.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: For those of you who want a new D....

                            By zigzag

                            5. Key free agents in 2005 that I'd gladly welcome on the Rams: Ed Hartwell (Ravens will most likely let him walk, could be the solid MLB the Rams need and could possibly be afforded when Polley is gone), or crazy Chris Hovan (not on good terms with Mike Tice, has been benched for the last 2 games I believe). Andre Dyson or Fred Smoot would be an improvement over our corners and we could move Butler back to nickel. But once again, finances would prevent us from bringing in more than one of the aforementioned players.
                            With the way our salary cap is right now, and if like you say we have to keep both Pace and Faulk, we can't even afford a plane ticket for any of those guys.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: For those of you who want a new D....

                              Man, if any of the rest of us had started a thread asking about the off-season already, I could have seen some curse words being spewed all over, maybe even a post or two deleted. The real question is what are the Rams going to do now?

                              Comment

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                              • ramhard
                                New Rams - Balance and Toughness
                                by ramhard
                                I've been thinking about the Rams and no matter the individual debates, the Rams have two problems:

                                (1). Lack of balance of talent due to salaries of the stars; and
                                (2). Lack of physical play (despite the players and coaches protests - see Atlanta game for reference and almost any others the past season).


                                The Rams can tinker but to be a champion again - not just making the players - will require them to remedy both of these.

                                On (1). The Rams can go the way of the Indy Colts and be entertaining during the season and lose in the playoffs, or can make some tough decisions. Here are the tough decisions. The Rams pay too much money right now to WR's, RB, and at one OT. There is no way the Rams can be balanced paying this much money to Bruce and Holt not to mention what Manu is paid at TE.
                                I say the Rams either drastically reduce Bruce's pay or trade him. I know it hurts and he is the heart of the team, but that is what every said when the Patriots traded Lawyer Milloy. The Rams just can't afford to have that much tied up at the receiver spot. I would also either cut or drastically restructure Faulk. He is not worth more than $1.5-$2M a year right now. You can't count on him for more than 9-10 games a year, and even then he is a solid but not spectacular back. Put it this way, if the Rams were on the free agent market to sign a back and they had Jackson, how much would you be willing to pay Faulk if he was a FA from another team? And Pace is a premier OT, but I think his contract issues have handcuffed the team. I would trade him also, and you could sign 2-3 solid linemen with that money.

                                Tough things do, but necessary.

                                (2). Speaking of tough that brings me to #2. The Rams are a finesse team - period, and can trick their way through the regualar season, but unless things fall right can't make it through the playoffs. So first of all the draft. Don't draft anyone that doesn't have in their scouting report - tough, physical, mean... period. No exceptions. As we already know that means, letting Pollley go, keeping Pisa, moving Thomas to ST and the bench, and bringing in two new LB's (I don't think Chillar is the answer). That also means one new corner in the rotation (nickle or starter) who is physical (maybe Lucas from Seattle), and a hard hitting safety who can cover. Plus drafting a G/T who can run block.

                                I know it's a overhaul, and that's why money has to be freed up. The capologist better than me can figure out the best way to clear cap room.
                                -02-06-2005, 09:22 PM
                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Orlando Pace-the devil is in the details
                                by Guest
                                This is for sure the most spirited debate of the off season. Lets do our best not to let the two camps of view get personal with each other as in the bulgerite vs. warnerite debacle of a year ago.

                                I think that there is really no "keep him" or "trade him" answer that makes 100% sense. The devil is in the details.

                                It makes no sense to me to say keep him at any cost and it makes no sense to me to say trade him because he is a bad influence or its time to "get what we can and move on".

                                Bottom line-If we trade him, does it make us a better team than signing him for what he wants or continuing to play the tag game. The answer to that questions is THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS.

                                We need to know what are we going to get specifically and how specifically is it going to affect our cap. We then compare that to what it does to our cap and our other personnel choices if we pay him what walter jones got.

                                Here is my question for you guys as i do my best to fight through my love for orlando pace and my view of his enormously underated value to the team. If we get the #13 pick (alex barron), a starting right tackle (we need to know the cap value) a #3 pick (who will add depth, play special teams and be a potential future starter) AND save enough cap money to either sign bryce fisher or a safety or interior lineman, are the rams a better team?

                                Your views please.

                                general counsel
                                -03-15-2005, 10:06 AM
                              • AvengerRam_old
                                The Way I See It, Nobody Is To Blame For Pace Standoff
                                by AvengerRam_old
                                Who's wrong here?

                                Orlando Pace wants a long-term deal, and believes that he should get the "market rate." He was not offered as much as Walter Jones (though it was close) received from Seattle, so he believes that the Rams have underbid. While the numbers make it hard to accept, there is a certain logic there. After all, Pace is at least Jones' equal.

                                The Rams want to keep Pace, but need to make a good economic decision. The deal that Jones received is structured in such a way thati, if offered to Pace, would hardly even result in a cap savings under the franchise tender. They feel they have made a fair offer and that their spending should not be entirely dictated by Seattle's decision to perhaps overspend. Again, this is logical. If they are going to let him go, they want the franchise player rate - two number ones. That is also logical.

                                Houston wants Pace and apparently is willing to give him an acceptable contract. But they don't want to give up two number 1 picks to get him. That makes sense, as few players are worth two #1s, and I don't think anyone has ever paid such a price for an O lineman. I presume they are willint to offer one first round pick and something else. The question is, what have they offered? Have they even made an offer?

                                I still want Pace to sign long term, but I'm starting to accept that this won't happen. I also think Pace may be halfway out the door, and that makes him a dangerous player to keep. I think the Rams need to get a first round pick, one of the Texans' starting OTs, and maybe another pick (a 3rd round pick, perhaps) to make the deal.

                                Stay tuned.
                                -03-15-2005, 07:36 AM
                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Its time for RamTime’s annual *****ing about Pace
                                by Guest
                                Yep it’s that time of year again when we collectively wonder if Pace is team player or not. It looks as if this year will tell a lot. Since he “fired” his agent and Walter Jones has signed there really is no reason for Opie to hold the Rams hostage and should sign a deal before free agency. We shall see but don’t hold your breath because I still maintain the he’s lazy and hates camp enough that he would trade not having to participate in spring training for holding his team hostage. It’s time people start calling this like it looks and stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.

                                Left tackle for sale, abada abada abada Left tackle for sale.... Step right up and feast your eyes on this massive specimen. That's right for 8 million dollars he can be yours for a whole year ahm minus the off season and uhm minus training camp, and uhm minus most of the pre season... abada abada abada Left Tackle for sale....
                                -02-25-2005, 03:07 AM
                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Simple question on Pace
                                by Guest
                                This topic IS worthy of beating what is hopefully not a dead horse.

                                We are an 8-8 team that won a playoff game that had MAJOR problems on our offense line last year. Our best defensive player may or may not be incarcerated by the time we start the season. Cap or no cap, exactly HOW is trading away our best offensive lineman, and one of the best in the league, a guy who even if he didnt have his best season got beat only a handful of times all year and NEVER requires double team help on the qbs blind side, going to help our chances of improving the team in 2005 and beyond. We are not a rebuilding team.

                                Furthermore, we still dont have a RIGHT tackle, let alone anyone remotely competent to replace pace. IF we get another left tackle, as avenger says, that is one thing, but the odds of getting a guy even in the same ballpark as pace for 2005 are very, very limited in my view.

                                Guys its about performance, even if he isnt willing to discount to market to stay with the team, even if he is selfish, even if he is a distraction, how exactly do you figure that we are better off without him.

                                If we spend the money we save on defense, how are we going to protect the qb.

                                How much do you think we are actually going to save under the cap. Pace costs 8.2 under the tender. What do you think its going to cost to replace him. Until you replace him, you dont know what the net savings are, and given what left tackles go for these days, i dont think we are going to save anywhere near what some people think we are going to save, and we will in all liklihood be overpaying for inferior talent.

                                Very, very sensitive subject for me, i think when people talk about the Big Three that won us the sb title and led to the great run this team has had, Pace is so often overlooked as to the critical nature of his contribution.

                                ramming speed to all

                                general counsel
                                -03-13-2005, 08:47 PM
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