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  • Since we're ranting...

    This isn't aimed at any one individual, but is based on multiple responses I've seen both recently and over the course of the season.

    It's my absolute honest belief that Dez has put together one of the best St. Louis Rams discussion sites on the 'net. If I didn't think that, I wouldn't have stayed here for more than six years, nor would I have agreed to help moderate the site to try and help out where I can.

    But it seems to me that lately, this season more than any in recent memory, some members have been making these snarky, disparaging, negative comments about other members, threads, or the board in general. It ranges from the borderline personal attacks of another poster to criticisms of a thread being pointless to comments about looking for a new board or questioning why they even come to this one. While these comments may not explicitly violate board rules, their negative effect to a thread or the board itself is obvious.

    Well, the simple truth is this: NO ONE is being forced to read this or any thread, just like no one is being forced to read another member's posts or even come to this site.

    If you don't like a topic or don't think it's a worthwhile discussion, don't read the thread. Click on the back button and find another one.

    If you don't like a poster's opinions and don't want to read any more of their posts, then don't. Go into your UserCP and put that person on your Ignore List.

    If you're considering leaving or questioning why you come here, then to be blunt, either **** or get off the pot. Don't post multiple responses about leaving, crying out for attention.

    No one is forcing you to come here, post here, read topics here, or "suffer" through someone else's opinion here. Those are YOUR CHOICES. You control your presence here and what you're exposed to.

    I think one of the main reasons I like the Clan is because I find there are many very intelligent, very knowledgeable football fans here that are ready and able to discuss all aspects of this game. Maybe it's a very positive, upbeat discussion, or maybe it's a critical discussion about problem areas on the team. But I find meaningful discussions every day on this board, not only about the Rams but about the NFL as a whole and specifically the draft and college prospects. I love engaging in these topics. Occasionally though, I find some discussions that, for whatever reason, I'd rather not be a part of because I don't see the point. When that happens, I simply move on to the next discussion. Trust me, it's not difficult.

    When people make negative responses that denigrate other posters or blame the board because of what's being said or what they've been exposed to, I simply have to shake my head. Yes, there are occasions when someone has stepped over the line, and when rules have been violated, we moderators are more than willing to do what we think is best. We encourage people to use the Report Post feature when they feel a rule has been violated, as we're human and don't catch everything.

    But in many cases, the problem isn't with the board for "forcing you" to read something, but rather the problem is when posters do not exercise some self-control when they don't like a topic or the opinions of another member by leaving the thread or ignoring the member. If you think someone is a troll who is out for attention, why would you want to respond and give that person more attention? If you don't think a certain topic of discussion brings any value to the board, what good could possibly come of entering into a topic you don't like to say how pointless it is?

    The wonderful thing about a message board is that you're more than welcome to stop reading something and go to another thread, or if you're so inclined, another site entirely. I would encourage anyone who doesn't like what they're reading at any particular time to do that rather than make needless negative responses that serve no other purpose than to bash another poster, topic, or the board itself simply because of the presence of opinions that you may not agree with or may not feel have value.

    I'm looking forward to starting a new year where hopefully this will not be an issue, because it's been a downer during a season that has really been one of the best we've seen in a number of years.

  • #2
    Re: Since we're ranting...

    Originally posted by Nick View Post
    This isn't aimed at any one individual, but is based on multiple responses I've seen both recently and over the course of the season.

    It's my absolute honest belief that Dez has put together one of the best St. Louis Rams discussion sites on the 'net. If I didn't think that, I wouldn't have stayed here for more than six years, nor would I have agreed to help moderate the site to try and help out where I can.

    But it seems to me that lately, this season more than any in recent memory, some members have been making these snarky, disparaging, negative comments about other members, threads, or the board in general. It ranges from the borderline personal attacks of another poster to criticisms of a thread being pointless to comments about looking for a new board or questioning why they even come to this one. While these comments may not explicitly violate board rules, their negative effect to a thread or the board itself is obvious.

    Well, the simple truth is this: NO ONE is being forced to read this or any thread, just like no one is being forced to read another member's posts or even come to this site.

    If you don't like a topic or don't think it's a worthwhile discussion, don't read the thread. Click on the back button and find another one.

    If you don't like a poster's opinions and don't want to read any more of their posts, then don't. Go into your UserCP and put that person on your Ignore List.

    If you're considering leaving or questioning why you come here, then to be blunt, either **** or get off the pot. Don't post multiple responses about leaving, crying out for attention.

    No one is forcing you to come here, post here, read topics here, or "suffer" through someone else's opinion here. Those are YOUR CHOICES. You control your presence here and what you're exposed to.

    I think one of the main reasons I like the Clan is because I find there are many very intelligent, very knowledgeable football fans here that are ready and able to discuss all aspects of this game. Maybe it's a very positive, upbeat discussion, or maybe it's a critical discussion about problem areas on the team. But I find meaningful discussions every day on this board, not only about the Rams but about the NFL as a whole and specifically the draft and college prospects. I love engaging in these topics. Occasionally though, I find some discussions that, for whatever reason, I'd rather not be a part of because I don't see the point. When that happens, I simply move on to the next discussion. Trust me, it's not difficult.

    When people make negative responses that denigrate other posters or blame the board because of what's being said or what they've been exposed to, I simply have to shake my head. Yes, there are occasions when someone has stepped over the line, and when rules have been violated, we moderators are more than willing to do what we think is best. We encourage people to use the Report Post feature when they feel a rule has been violated, as we're human and don't catch everything.

    But in many cases, the problem isn't with the board for "forcing you" to read something, but rather the problem is when posters do not exercise some self-control when they don't like a topic or the opinions of another member by leaving the thread or ignoring the member. If you think someone is a troll who is out for attention, why would you want to respond and give that person more attention? If you don't think a certain topic of discussion brings any value to the board, what good could possibly come of entering into a topic you don't like to say how pointless it is?

    The wonderful thing about a message board is that you're more than welcome to stop reading something and go to another thread, or if you're so inclined, another site entirely. I would encourage anyone who doesn't like what they're reading at any particular time to do that rather than make needless negative responses that serve no other purpose than to bash another poster, topic, or the board itself simply because of the presence of opinions that you may not agree with or may not feel have value.

    I'm looking forward to starting a new year where hopefully this will not be an issue, because it's been a downer during a season that has really been one of the best we've seen in a number of years.
    I love this board, and I have been a member since Dez first started it (even though my post don't reflect it. My account was breifly booted and deleted because I hadn't updated my email address a while back); since he spun away from RAMFANS.com.

    I enjoy the spirited debates, the overwhelming amount of expertise analysis, the often SJD (Rabid where are you) that only want to see the good, the PRF (does Darren ever come around here?) that try to stop us koolaid drinkers from going to far, and the comradery that helps overcome a tough loss.

    I will never threaten to leave because someone said something I disagree with (sorry, can't get rid of me that easily), or run off in a tissy. This is just a great place for RAM fans to get together.

    I will say that we should reassess the rules that we already have, and remove post that are causing a flame war. If you post something in the heat of the moment, and it clearly says something that is a personal attack (even if it wasn't meant that way) and someone points it out, edit the post or remove it. Plain and simple.

    I will say that if there was a post similar to Dez' post, that said the exact same thing about the LA fans, and their inability to TAKE a team that the NFL is trying it's best to put in that town, it would be deleted as inflamitory. Even if it was posted in the NFL Talk forum. That is the way I feel, and there isn't much that can be said to change my mind.


    gap

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Since we're ranting...

      ya, the thing is I look at it this way... if i don't like a thread, the LAST thing I want to do is comment on it and boost it back to the top. The BEST way to kill a thread and have it sink into old news oblivion is to "let it go" & don't comment on it. It's boycott philosophy in its finest form. Sure you may hate a thread and it'll stay at the top cuz so many peeps are posting on it, but hey, less fuel to the fire is what i say. when the posters realize they're arguing to thin air, the thread will drop and disappear very quickly. best way to deal with a bad thread is ignore it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Since we're ranting...

        Well, fact is this ...

        This board for some reason has gotten watered down over the past two years. I never had to worry about picking and choosing which threads I wanted to read, because at one time, it seemed there was constructive discussion and valuable information in almost every thread posted ...

        Now, this is not the case. Sometimes I feel like I post just to post, and that is unfortunate. At one point in time, I took the time to often write creative and detailed posts that I felt contributed greatly to the board. I don't take the time to do this anymore, because these threads, which take time to develop, are often left in dust for the random repetitve one line nonsense that has become more commonplace ...

        In recent months, I have begun posting on other boards, and I spend less time here. Mostly because the interface of this forum is too slow for me nowadays, because of the filtering that I have to do to find productivity ...

        It is what it is, but many of the posters that I used to love discussing Ram football with are nowhere to be found, either because they left or they post very infrequently. There is a reason for this ...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Since we're ranting...

          Originally posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
          Well, fact is this ...

          This board for some reason has gotten watered down over the past two years. I never had to worry about picking and choosing which threads I wanted to read, because at one time, it seemed there was constructive discussion and valuable information in almost every thread posted ...

          Now, this is not the case. Sometimes I feel like I post just to post, and that is unfortunate. At one point in time, I took the time to often write creative and detailed posts that I felt contributed greatly to the board. I don't take the time to do this anymore, because these threads, which take time to develop, are often left in dust for the random repetitve one line nonsense that has become more commonplace ...

          In recent months, I have begun posting on other boards, and I spend less time here. Mostly because the interface of this forum is too slow for me nowadays, because of the filtering that I have to do to find productivity ...

          It is what it is, but many of the posters that I used to love discussing Ram football with are nowhere to be found, either because they left or they post very infrequently. There is a reason for this ...
          There are plenty of Rams fans here worth discussing football with (both on line and at the Bash). Considering that you've been sporting "Banned" as your avatar and "RIP" as your location, maybe you're not looking hard enough.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Since we're ranting...

            Originally posted by AvengerRam View Post
            There are plenty of Rams fans here worth discussing football with (both on line and at the Bash). Considering that you've been sporting "Banned" as your avatar and "RIP" as your location, maybe you're not looking hard enough.
            The fact that I have to "look harder" says enough ....

            I contribute when I feel I can, but most of the "battles" on here nowadays are not worth fighting ...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Since we're ranting...

              Originally posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
              Well, fact is this ...

              This board for some reason has gotten watered down over the past two years. I never had to worry about picking and choosing which threads I wanted to read, because at one time, it seemed there was constructive discussion and valuable information in almost every thread posted ...

              Now, this is not the case. Sometimes I feel like I post just to post, and that is unfortunate. At one point in time, I took the time to often write creative and detailed posts that I felt contributed greatly to the board. I don't take the time to do this anymore, because these threads, which take time to develop, are often left in dust for the random repetitve one line nonsense that has become more commonplace ...

              In recent months, I have begun posting on other boards, and I spend less time here. Mostly because the interface of this forum is too slow for me nowadays, because of the filtering that I have to do to find productivity ...

              It is what it is, but many of the posters that I used to love discussing Ram football with are nowhere to be found, either because they left or they post very infrequently. There is a reason for this ...
              Aren't you the guy who gave me reputation and in the comment said "Blow Me!"

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Since we're ranting...

                Well said Nick. I'd reward you but I have to spread it around.

                I've never been a fan of disparaging the site or threatening to leave over a difference of opinion or slight. It's pointless because quite frankly, people come and go, and the site continues to function just fine, with or without any single individual.

                I learned long ago to develop a thick skin, not take things too personally, and stay away from discussions I'm not willing to take some heat over. I do understand that it's human nature to want to lash out when you feel you've been attacked, but the best way to respond, if you have to, is with a well thought-out, reasonably toned counter argument.

                There is a constant ebb and flow to this site as far as personality conflicts and attitudes, but even though people might irritate me from time to time, I can honestly say I ultimately have nothing but respect for virtually everyone here (that includes everyone I debated with in a recent lengthy thread). We're all Rams fans who want the same thing, our team to have success. That bonds us together and makes ClanRam a community.

                I have no doubt we'll continue to move on as we always do, and focus on the business at hand, vanqishing a hated foe in the biggest game in more than half a decade. Doing that will REALLY give us something to talk about.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Since we're ranting...

                  Originally posted by swatter555 View Post
                  Aren't you the guy who gave me reputation and in the comment said "Blow Me!"
                  Maybe it's just me, but that is flat hilarious.

                  (I'm still laughing).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Since we're ranting...

                    Originally posted by swatter555 View Post
                    Aren't you the guy who gave me reputation and in the comment said "Blow Me!"
                    Quite possibly, your point? It forces you to say something, you probably earned it!

                    I'm really not proud of the body of work in my last 900 posts or so ...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Since we're ranting...

                      Originally posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
                      Well said Nick. I'd reward you but I have to spread it around.

                      I've never been a fan of disparaging the site or threatening to leave over a difference of opinion or slight. It's pointless because quite frankly, people come and go, and the site continues to function just fine, with or without any single individual.

                      I learned long ago to develop a thick skin, not take things too personally, and stay away from discussions I'm not willing to take some heat over. I do understand that it's human nature to want to lash out when you feel you've been attacked, but the best way to respond, if you have to, is with a well thought-out, reasonably toned counter argument.

                      There is a constant ebb and flow to this site as far as personality conflicts and attitudes, but even though people might irritate me from time to time, I can honestly say I ultimately have nothing but respect for virtually everyone here (that includes everyone I debated with in a recent lengthy thread). We're all Rams fans who want the same thing, our team to have success. That bonds us together and makes ClanRam a community.

                      I have no doubt we'll continue to move on as we always do, and focus on the business at hand, vanqishing a hated foe in the biggest game in more than half a decade. Doing that will REALLY give us something to talk about.
                      You write with a flair unmatched by any other on this board ...

                      Quite possibly my favorite poster to read on a day to day basis!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Since we're ranting...

                        A rule of thumb- one that is often NOT followed, hence the problem today with computers, blogs, message boards, etc. is "Don't say something on the computer you wouldn't have the guts to say face to face to someone else". Anonymity makes many people a tough guy or a troublemaker, and most people who insist on trolling or raising people's ire are probably pussies in their day to day lives.

                        I enjoy good debate. I don't want to agree with everything everyone else says about the Rams. If we all thought alike, what fun would life be? What I DO NOT enjoy is when people feel the need to be facetious or go out of their way to make you look like an ass in order to argue their case. Common sense should dictate to whom and to what you'll respond. Well-reasoned posts you disagree with deserve healthy rebuttals and debates. Abstain from sarcasm. Responding to threads that start by saying something like "Sam Bradford Sucks" only fuels the idiot who starts such a message.

                        I have not been here since the board's inception, but I do not feel this board has gotten less worthwhile from the time I started until now. You have some good threads, some average ones and some stinkers. I'd guess that most forums out there share these same similarities. Some days, I'll post multiple times; other times I may go a week or more without posting at all. As the saying goes: "Tis better to be silent and have people think you're an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". Post only when you have something worthwhile to offer. And if one feels he must "post just to post', as Infiniti claims he's done most recently, I would say refrain from doing so. Forcing conversation or discussion is neither healthy nor enjoyable. Take a rest and come back refreshed when a topic interests you.

                        Look forward to many more future discussions about the Rams. In the meantime, let's get the job done on Sunday vs. SF- it means everything.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Since we're ranting...

                          Originally posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
                          Quite possibly, your point? It forces you to say something, you probably earned it!

                          I'm really not proud of the body of work in my last 900 posts or so ...
                          Lol, I think its funny. I chuckle ever time I read it. I get a special satisfaction from getting under somone's skin that much.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Since we're ranting...

                            Originally posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
                            You write with a flair unmatched by any other on this board ...

                            Quite possibly my favorite poster to read on a day to day basis!
                            Thanks Infiniti, I very much appreciate those sentiments.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Since we're ranting...

                              Originally posted by Nick View Post
                              This isn't aimed at any one individual, but is based on multiple responses I've seen both recently and over the course of the season.

                              It's my absolute honest belief that Dez has put together one of the best St. Louis Rams discussion sites on the 'net. If I didn't think that, I wouldn't have stayed here for more than six years, nor would I have agreed to help moderate the site to try and help out where I can.

                              But it seems to me that lately, this season more than any in recent memory, some members have been making these snarky, disparaging, negative comments about other members, threads, or the board in general. It ranges from the borderline personal attacks of another poster to criticisms of a thread being pointless to comments about looking for a new board or questioning why they even come to this one. While these comments may not explicitly violate board rules, their negative effect to a thread or the board itself is obvious.

                              Well, the simple truth is this: NO ONE is being forced to read this or any thread, just like no one is being forced to read another member's posts or even come to this site.

                              If you don't like a topic or don't think it's a worthwhile discussion, don't read the thread. Click on the back button and find another one.

                              If you don't like a poster's opinions and don't want to read any more of their posts, then don't. Go into your UserCP and put that person on your Ignore List.

                              If you're considering leaving or questioning why you come here, then to be blunt, either **** or get off the pot. Don't post multiple responses about leaving, crying out for attention.

                              No one is forcing you to come here, post here, read topics here, or "suffer" through someone else's opinion here. Those are YOUR CHOICES. You control your presence here and what you're exposed to.

                              I think one of the main reasons I like the Clan is because I find there are many very intelligent, very knowledgeable football fans here that are ready and able to discuss all aspects of this game. Maybe it's a very positive, upbeat discussion, or maybe it's a critical discussion about problem areas on the team. But I find meaningful discussions every day on this board, not only about the Rams but about the NFL as a whole and specifically the draft and college prospects. I love engaging in these topics. Occasionally though, I find some discussions that, for whatever reason, I'd rather not be a part of because I don't see the point. When that happens, I simply move on to the next discussion. Trust me, it's not difficult.

                              When people make negative responses that denigrate other posters or blame the board because of what's being said or what they've been exposed to, I simply have to shake my head. Yes, there are occasions when someone has stepped over the line, and when rules have been violated, we moderators are more than willing to do what we think is best. We encourage people to use the Report Post feature when they feel a rule has been violated, as we're human and don't catch everything.

                              But in many cases, the problem isn't with the board for "forcing you" to read something, but rather the problem is when posters do not exercise some self-control when they don't like a topic or the opinions of another member by leaving the thread or ignoring the member. If you think someone is a troll who is out for attention, why would you want to respond and give that person more attention? If you don't think a certain topic of discussion brings any value to the board, what good could possibly come of entering into a topic you don't like to say how pointless it is?

                              The wonderful thing about a message board is that you're more than welcome to stop reading something and go to another thread, or if you're so inclined, another site entirely. I would encourage anyone who doesn't like what they're reading at any particular time to do that rather than make needless negative responses that serve no other purpose than to bash another poster, topic, or the board itself simply because of the presence of opinions that you may not agree with or may not feel have value.

                              I'm looking forward to starting a new year where hopefully this will not be an issue, because it's been a downer during a season that has really been one of the best we've seen in a number of years.
                              Yeah, go RAMS baby!!:helmet:

                              Comment

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                              Collapse

                              • GSDunk
                                Clan.... Is this a dead board?
                                by GSDunk
                                Last month there was a thread started by avengerram about the state of this message board.

                                Well today I come in here only 3 days from training camp and the place is a morgue.

                                One thing I'll point out is most of the front page of this board is made up of News From Nick. And 90% of those threads have zero responses.

                                He needs to condense all his Ram news into one simple single thread.... Otherwise this will always look like a Rams news site and not a message board.

                                If we need Rams news, there are way better places to get it than here. What happened to the good old days where 99% of the threads were real conversation where threads were original......Not regurgitated from other websites.

                                Just my two cents....
                                -07-23-2018, 09:24 PM
                              • Fat Pang
                                Deletions
                                by Fat Pang
                                Greetings all,

                                Quick query if I may..........

                                What are the groundrules for deletions?

                                Now I received a mail from Nick recently (Automated? That's a hell of a program that can scan text for perceived value....) that said that a post that I made recently that signalled my agreement with something was being deleted because it didn't add anything to the thread.

                                I should have signalled my agreement via the rep system.

                                No problem with that per se, and it seems to be a very sensible way on cutting down on some of the guff that's posted, but having had a quick trawl through some other threads where someone may have posted "Yeah man, I agree with that (Insert joke here, even if it's a poor one)" it doesn't seem to be consistently applied.

                                So, in order to save time and trouble could someone please tell me what the rules are these days. You can't avoid being subjective if you don't have any.

                                I might want to know about Rams Players birthdays for example and it might hold just as much value as knowing how heavy Marshall is these days, or how bad our undrafted free agents ACL is, or telling Torry we love him, or whether we leave the seat up or down,etc, etc............

                                I may have missed the rules being published somewhere and if I have can someone please point me in the right direction.

                                Cheers,

                                FP
                                -06-16-2006, 11:58 PM
                              • RamsInfiniti
                                What is going on here?
                                by RamsInfiniti
                                That's the question I have to ask ...

                                ClanRam is EASILY the greatest Rams forum on the internets today. Take a minute, go visit some of the other forums out there, and it won't take you long to realize this ...

                                I have paid my dues, I do every year, and I am a premium member here. I love supporting this site. I have had my issues with some folks here, some prominent folks through the times, and despite that, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else but here ...

                                This board has great members, some very intelligent Rams fans, and I have loved discussing football with many of you from day one ...

                                But what in the world has happened to the quality of the posts here lately? I don't know if it is all the new members, if the newer members are afraid to express their opinions, or what it is. But I am seeing more one-liners than ever, more repeat posts and topics than ever, more one sided discussions that ever ...

                                It's seems to be a great time to be a Rams fan, but something just doesn't seem right around here. I cannot seem to pinpoint it, and maybe I am the only one, but I've found these forums very hard to read over the past couple of weeks. Maybe my comfort level is down because I am seeing so many new faces, but it seems like I am having to pick through alot of jibberish to find the posts that I really want to read and see ...

                                I am just wondering if it's only me, or if others are feeling the same way. During this great offseason, one of the best we've had in a decade, I would really like to be jumping for joy and sharing this with others, but for some reason something seems off ....

                                Hmmmm, I don't know, maybe I am just nuts ...
                                -03-12-2009, 09:45 PM
                              • Nick
                                Reminder About Posting Expectations Going Forward
                                by Nick
                                A recent thread was created probing possible reasons for declining activity in the forum. While a number of options were discussed, many members within the topic expressed concerns about the impact of responses which they felt were snarky, condescending, and discouraging to healthy debate.

                                In an effort to address those concerns, RamsNation moderators would like to make sure everyone is on the same page in this regard.

                                We have worked collaboratively over the years to try and define a set of forum rules that we’re satisfied with, that encapsulates what we and what we think our members expect the discourse on RamsNation to be. The first of those rules refers to profanity and civility, including the following sentence: “We expect all Rams Nation members to be civil at all times, even in heated discussions.”

                                Individuals may have different interpretations of what constitutes civil behavior, so for the sake of consistency, we’ll reference the dictionary definition of “courteous and polite.” Personal shots at a poster, sarcasm that is meant to put another down, an intentionally condescending or patronizing tone, or responses that serve no purpose but to derail discussions do not constitute civil discourse.

                                We encourage debate, and understand that fans may become heated during debates by arguing passionately in support of their opinions. However, going forward, we want to reiterate our expectation that all of these discussions and debates still remain civil and polite to ensure that members feel that their opinions have been heard, not shut down.

                                RamsNation moderators will do our best to watch these discussions and act when we think the line has been crossed. As Dez has discussed, if we feel something has crossed the line, we will "soft delete" the post - temporarily putting removing it so we can discuss it as a group to determine if the post should be reinstated or fully deleted. We will do our best to communicate with you the reason behind any actions we take, and encourage you to use the Flag feature to bring any problems you see to our attention.

                                We appreciate your contributions to our board, and thank you for choosing to participate here at RamsNation!
                                -06-13-2018, 05:41 AM
                              • Guest's Avatar
                                ok now its getting annoying.....
                                by Guest
                                Some people here like to change their handles into names like Linefan and Georgia Frontiere.....thats all fine until all the threads are being commented by these sarcastic individuals...put an end to it while its funny!! ...Now i have something else to discuss...Linehan may still be the coach next year so deal with it....Georgia Frontiere will still be the owner for many many years to come, so deal with it.....and last but not least if you want to make fun of every individual in the organization, there are 31 other teams with front offices that you may like (the Pats bandwagon is hot so you can easily jump on unnoticed).....I am a rams fan and will support any decision they make and will cheer my heart out for them....i dont care much about frontiere but i would never make fun of her so that i can give fans of other teams a topic to bring up and use against me.....just my two cents...

                                PS.... i came here to talk about football not clown around with people using temporarily funny handles....
                                -12-06-2007, 08:32 PM
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