Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • lakerams
    Guest replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    Originally posted by Ferter
    Smoke and Mirrors.....

    Doesn't matter, because any Rams fan worth their salt knows that Martz chose chandler. It seems to me that any reporter worth their salt would have reminded Martz of this and asked him if he would still be making key FA personnel decisions in the future.


    :tongue:
    well said FERTER.

    he chose his back up QB and the one he just signed. he has no one to blame but himself. he can't blame Chandler for being Chandler. it doesn't work that way Martz.

    you can't blame a toad for being ugly, it has no choice. in the same manner, you can't blame Chandler for the way he performed because that's the way he was playing before you picked him up, therefore, you knew what you were getting when you signed him.

    my guess is, you figured you wouldn't have to use him. well, you were wrong. AGAIN!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • moklerman
    Guest replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    And yet, you just did spend more time on it by posting you wouldn't spend more time on it.

    I'm not trying to catch you at anything Nick, I'm just saying that on a sublimenal level, the words we choose are quite telling. They way we interpret a paragraph is too.

    You seem to believe Martz is a choir boy and I think the more he does the more his true colors show.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick
    replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    I can't believe you're arguing with me about the word I chose to describe what you were talking about. I picked a word, and I used it. I'm not spending any more time on it.

    Leave a comment:


  • moklerman
    Guest replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    I chose the word simply because that's what you're describing. I'm not seeing much that's curious about that.
    Would you say that misleading would describe what I'm saying also? You could have easily used that word in your response. The words we choose are often very telling and in this case I think it applies. What I was describing in my original post was to illustrate how Martz's actions were ultimately self-serving. You processed what I said and what you know and came up with devious. You must have that impression from Martz on some level and maybe don't even realize it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Curly Horns
    replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    Smoke and Mirrors.....

    Doesn't matter, because any Rams fan worth their salt knows that Martz chose chandler. It seems to me that any reporter worth their salt would have reminded Martz of this and asked him if he would still be making key FA personnel decisions in the future.


    :tongue:

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick
    replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    Originally posted by moklerman
    Isn't it curious you chose to use that word when you claim not to see what I'm seeing.
    I chose the word simply because that's what you're describing. I'm not seeing much that's curious about that.

    Leave a comment:


  • moklerman
    Guest replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    Devious seems a little strong but they're your words not mine. Isn't it curious you chose to use that word when you claim not to see what I'm seeing. The conspiracy continues.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick
    replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    You obviously take Martz for more of a devious person than I do. That's where we'll have to leave it.

    Leave a comment:


  • moklerman
    Guest replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    Interestingly enough though, to my knowledge, Martz has made those comments before 2003 and before Marc Bulger.
    And? I never said that it was the first instance of him doing such a thing. It's just an obvious example of what I was talking about. It wasn't the last time he did it either. The first or last time he did it has no bearing on what I was trying to illustrate.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick
    replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    Originally posted by moklerman
    That's just a generalized recap of one of the many instances from 2003.
    Interestingly enough though, to my knowledge, Martz has made those comments before 2003 and before Marc Bulger.

    Leave a comment:


  • moklerman
    Guest replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    Which is why I find it so incomprehensible that someone claiming to look at all of Martz's quotes would not recognize the many instances where he's shifted blame to himself over his players.
    I recognize that he said those things, I just question his motives for saying them. Taken at face value, yes, he has defended his players. But when he says things like he called a very bad game and all those interceptions weren't Bulger's fault, I have to question "why" he's saying it. In those instances he was trying to deflect criticism of Bulger. Ultimately, justifying his decision to start Bulger. So, while taking blame for the onfield mistakes, he's actually defending his player decision. That's just a generalized recap of one of the many instances from 2003. Just a disclaimer to avoid any possible criticism for not spending hours in research when I'm just trying to make a point, not argue grammar or exact wording.

    If you look at it logically, and view the big picture, it's plain as day.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick
    replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    Originally posted by moklerman
    Instead of looking at only a single quote to establish my opinion of what I think Martz's motivations are or were, I'm looking at everything combined.
    Which is why I find it so incomprehensible that someone claiming to look at all of Martz's quotes would not recognize the many instances where he's shifted blame to himself over his players. But it would seem that's an opinion we'll just have to differ on.

    Leave a comment:


  • moklerman
    Guest replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    no matter how much you may want to spin it.
    I don't think I'm the one who's "spinning". When you say that he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't and then propose that "everyone" will think this or that, it sure sounds like fast talking to me.

    I'm giving my opinion on what I think, based on what's happened. Instead of looking at only a single quote to establish my opinion of what I think Martz's motivations are or were, I'm looking at everything combined. When you look at his track record, Martz has proven to be self serving in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick
    replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    When Martz made comments like "I didn't have such and such ready," or "That was my call," it sounded as if he wastaking the blame, yes. I'm sorry, but there are many recorded instances of Martz stepping in the line of fire. Let's not pretend it's anything different, no matter how much you may want to spin it.

    Leave a comment:


  • moklerman
    Guest replied
    Re: Rams leave Tempe empty--MUST READ

    I disagree. All he has to do is add "we" to whatever he's talking about. Coach speak is not that difficult. "We" weren't ready today. "We didn't do what needed to be done. Etc., etc.

    You have to look at what's actually being said by Martz not just seperate it into two categories. You're loading the question that way. When he was "taking the blame" did it really seem like that's what he was doing? It sure seemed like he was ultimately defending his decisions rather than taking blame. As always, Martz's choice of words is poor at best. Let's not pretend it's anything different.

    Leave a comment:

Related Topics

Collapse

  • RamWraith
    Carolina intercepts Rams' playoff bid
    by RamWraith
    By Jim Thomas
    Of the Post-Dispatch
    Sunday, Dec. 12 2004

    CHARLOTTE, N.C. - Just when the Rams needed him most, Chris Chandler came up
    with probably the worst performance in his 17 NFL seasons.

    And no one felt worse than Chandler, who threw six - that's right, a half dozen
    - interceptions in the Rams' 20-7 loss to Carolina.

    "After everything I did good last week to help this team win (against San
    Francisco), I can take all the blame for this loss," Chandler said.

    When Carolina cornerback Ricky Manning Jr. gains more yards off Chandler passes
    than Isaac Bruce, you know it's a long day. But that's exactly what happened
    Sunday at Bank of America Stadium.

    Manning, a Rams nemesis last season in the playoffs, picked off two Chandler
    passes and returned them for 46 yards. Bruce had three catches for 27 yards.

    "Chris made some real poor 'judgment throws' where the ball didn't come out
    when it should," coach Mike Martz said. "On some of those things he was
    throwing the ball too quickly instead of letting the guy get into the hole."

    Martz theorized that some of that may have been because Chandler was reverting
    to old habits from past teams. The Rams ask their quarterbacks to approach
    things differently in terms of how they go through their reads.

    "A little bit," Chandler said. "But it's not anything that's too different. I
    had no answers. No excuses, either. It was just not good."

    The Rams entered the game in first place in the NFC West, holding the No. 4
    seed in the playoffs. But at 6-7, the Rams are now on the outside looking in.

    Seattle (7-6) took over the division lead by winning in Minnesota. And Carolina
    (6-7), with its fifth straight victory, now holds the sixth - and final -
    playoff spot. (It has the tiebreaker edge over the Rams because it defeated the
    Rams head to head.)

    But all that was on anybody's minds early Sunday evening were interceptions,
    not playoff scenarios. The six interceptions were a career high for the
    39-year-old Chandler - his previous high was four against San Diego, way back
    in 1990.

    Chandler's interception total tied for the second most in Rams franchise
    history, trailing the seven thrown by Bob Waterfield against Green Bay in 1958
    and Parker Hall against Green Bay in 1942.

    The tone was set on the Rams' opening possession. Facing a third and 3 on the
    Carolina 27, Chandler was flushed out of the pocket, had Dane Looker open over
    the middle for a first down, but overthrew him with Manning coming down with
    the interception.

    Two additional interceptions came on deflected...
    -12-13-2004, 06:35 AM
  • Nick
    Words can't do justice to describe QB's ineptitude
    by Nick
    Words can't do justice to describe QB's ineptitude
    By Bryan Burwell
    Of the Post-Dispatch
    Sunday, Dec. 19 2004

    TEMPE, Ariz. - Before we get to the really heavy lifting in the wreckage of
    this disastrous Rams season, let's shove some of the light debris out of the
    way first.

    Cut Chris Chandler right now.

    Don't waste another day or another ounce of aggravation on someone who clearly
    doesn't care enough about his job to prepare properly to help his team win. The
    Rams' postseason hopes have all but disintegrated in the span of the two weeks,
    and in the aftermath of another catastrophic defeat that has his fingerprints
    all over it, Chandler is the easiest (though clearly not the only) culprit to
    identify.

    Somehow, after 17 years in the National Football League, the 39-year-old
    Chandler has mysteriously forgotten how to play quarterback, as evidenced by
    his pitiful display in Sunday's 31-7 loss to the Arizona Cardinals. One week
    after playing one of the worst games I've ever seen a proven, veteran NFL
    quarterback play (six interceptions and three sacks in a 20-7 loss to
    Carolina), Chandler outdid himself against the Cardinals.

    I cannot overstate how bad this guy stunk up half-empty Sun Devil Stadium. In
    only one spectacularly abysmal quarter of play, Chandler completed one of six
    passes for 1 lousy yard, was sacked twice, threw an interception and had a 0.0
    passer rating. By the time Mike Martz yanked him at the end of the first
    quarter, the Rams had already fallen behind 10-0 and had been outgained in
    total offensive yards 108 to minus-20.

    Here's how his day went out here in the Arizona desert, and too bad it wasn't a
    mirage.

    Three and out.

    Three and out.

    Interception.

    Three and out.

    Benched.

    He was beyond bad. He was flat-out incompetent, and maybe worse than that.
    Incompetence, as bad as it might be, is at least excusable. But indifference is
    an unpardonable transgression. You expect a rookie to play incompetently. You
    might even expect a free agent, walking in cold off the street, to be clueless.
    But who could expect a 17-year veteran who has been to two Pro Bowls, won an
    NFC championship and played in the scorching heat of a Super Bowl, to play
    without a clue, and with so little passion?
    Chandler was not only bad, he was calling passes when he was supposed to be
    calling a running plays. He was throwing to the wrong receivers. He was
    floating balls like they were filled with helium. And when he wasn't doing
    that, he was showing all the mobility of an oak tree, feet deeply rooted in the
    ground and unable to move...
    -12-20-2004, 01:17 AM
  • RamWraith
    Words can't do justice to describe QB's ineptitude
    by RamWraith
    By Bryan Burwell
    Of the Post-Dispatch
    12/19/2004

    Cut Chris Chandler right now.

    Don't waste another day or another ounce of aggravation on someone who clearly doesn't care enough about his job to prepare properly to help his team win. The Rams' postseason hopes have all but disintegrated in the span of the two weeks, and in the aftermath of another catastrophic defeat that has his fingerprints all over it, Chandler is the easiest (though clearly not the only) culprit to identify.

    Somehow, after 17 years in the National Football League, the 39-year-old Chandler has mysteriously forgotten how to play quarterback, as evidenced by his pitiful display in Sunday's 31-7 loss to the Arizona Cardinals. One week after playing one of the worst games I've ever seen a proven, veteran NFL quarterback play (six interceptions and three sacks in a 20-7 loss to Carolina), Chandler outdid himself against the Cardinals.

    I cannot overstate how bad this guy stunk up half-empty Sun Devil Stadium. In only one spectacularly abysmal quarter of play, Chandler completed one of six passes for 1 lousy yard, was sacked twice, threw an interception and had a 0.0 passer rating. By the time Mike Martz yanked him at the end of the first quarter, the Rams had already fallen behind 10-0 and had been outgained in total offensive yards 108 to minus-20.

    Here's how his day went out here in the Arizona desert, and too bad it wasn't a mirage.

    Three and out.

    Three and out.

    Interception.

    Three and out.

    Benched.

    He was beyond bad. He was flat-out incompetent, and maybe worse than that. Incompetence, as bad as it might be, is at least excusable. But indifference is an unpardonable transgression. You expect a rookie to play incompetently. You might even expect a free agent, walking in cold off the street, to be clueless. But who could expect a 17-year veteran who has been to two Pro Bowls, won an NFC championship and played in the scorching heat of a Super Bowl, to play without a clue, and with so little passion?

    Chandler was not only bad, he was calling passes when he was supposed to be calling a running plays. He was throwing to the wrong receivers. He was floating balls like they were filled with helium. And when he wasn't doing that, he was showing all the mobility of an oak tree, feet deeply rooted in the ground and unable to move out of the way of the various blitzes the Cards were throwing at him.

    How does this happen? Was Chandler so traumatized from last week's bad experience that he was paralyzed with fear this week? Was he sleeping in meetings and didn't know the game plan? Was the wireless microphone in his helmet picking up shortwave signals from Sri Lanka? Did his dog eat his playbook?

    "Guys, I don't know," said a seething Mike Martz in the head coach's...
    -12-20-2004, 03:22 PM
  • RamWraith
    Chandler throws on a running play
    by RamWraith
    NFL.com wire reports



    TEMPE, Ariz. (Dec. 19, 2004) -- The NFC West is so bad that a team with a losing record could win it -- even the Arizona Cardinals.

    The St. Louis Rams had a chance to take control of the league's worst division, but they fell flat in a 31-7 loss to the Cardinals.

    Josh McCown threw for two touchdowns and ran for two more and the Cardinals snapped a four-game losing streak.

    McCown, starting his second game since being benched for three, went 22-of-34 for 287 yards with no interceptions. He had TD passes of 8 and 4 yards to Larry Fitzgerald, and scoring runs of 1 and 9 yards.

    A victory would have moved the Rams into a tie with Seattle atop the division, since St. Louis holds the tiebreaker with two wins over the Seahawks. Instead, the Rams fell to 6-8, just one game ahead of the Cardinals (5-9), who improbably are still alive.

    "We didn't see this coming," Rams wide receiver Torry Holt said. "If there was any game on the schedule that we felt confident about coming in and winning, it would be Arizona."

    If Arizona wins its last two, and both Seattle and St. Louis go 0-2, the Cardinals would take the division title at 7-9.

    "I'm surprised that a 5-9 team is in it, but I'm not surprised that it's this team," McCown said. "We have it in us. We have the talent, we have the capability to do this, it's just a consistency thing."

    With quarterback Marc Bulger out with a shoulder injury, 39-year-old Chris Chandler lasted just one quarter for the Rams before he was replaced by Jamie Martin, who saw his first regular-season action in two years. He was signed by the Rams earlier this month when Bulger was injured.

    St. Louis coach Mike Martz put much of the blame on Chandler, saying the veteran quarterback threw the ball on a run play on the first series and made other elementary mistakes.

    "It's tragic for this football team, for that position to hold this whole football team hostage," Martz said, "but that's where we are."

    Martz praised Martin's play, considering the circumstances, but said, "I just don't know what to call when you've got a guy in there that's never been in there."

    The Rams' touchdown came on Leonard Little 's 61-yard fumble return with 7 seconds left in the first half.

    "When you score 31 points, hold a team to seven points and basically no points against the offense -- and not in position to kick even field goals -- then you feel like you've done a very good job," Arizona coach Dennis Green said.

    St. Louis' only serious offensive threat ended when Holt was hit by Ifeanyi Ohalete and fumbled as he was about to cross the goal line. Ohalete recovered in the end zone for a touchback.

    ...
    -12-20-2004, 04:48 AM
  • RamWraith
    On a day when the Rams need him, Chandler's an asset for the Panthers
    by RamWraith
    By Bernie Miklasz
    Of the Post-Dispatch
    Sunday, Dec. 12 2004

    CHARLOTTE, N.C. - For some athletes, the legs are the first to go as the aging
    process sets in. For Rams quarterback Chris Chandler, 39, apparently it's the
    eyes. Chandler's vision seemed awfully blurred on Sunday in Carolina. He kept
    throwing the football to the wrong team.

    The Panthers intercepted Chandler six times in their 20-7 victory over the
    visiting Rams.

    Repeat: Six INTs . . .

    "It kind of snowballed a little bit," Chandler said.

    More like an avalanche.

    Chandler needed glasses, or even a pair of binoculars, to distinguish the Rams
    from the Panthers. The final tally was close; at least Rams receivers Torry
    Holt and Isaac Bruce caught nine of Chandler's passes, or three more than
    Carolina.

    Six interceptions . . .

    At Bank of America Stadium, Chandler was an ATM for the Carolina defense. When
    in need, the Panthers just punched the digits 1 and 2 for a passcode - Chandler
    wears No. 12 - and he'd spit out another interception. He was instant cash for
    Carolina all day. Chandler was the gift that kept on giving during this blessed
    holiday season.

    Six interceptions . . .

    This was Marc Bulger's finest day as a Rams quarterback. No, he has a bruised
    shoulder and didn't play. But at least now some spoiled Rams fans should
    realize Bulger isn't the worst QB in the history of Western Civilization, after
    all.

    Chandler's pick-six special was the worst performance by an old Rams
    quarterback since Joe Namath finished his career with the 1977 Los Angeles
    Rams. Namath could barely walk at the end, but at least he could see well
    enough to establish, say, each team's colors.

    Then again, Namath didn't have to play behind this particular Rams offensive
    line. Chandler won't last long. This treatment of Chandler, the league's oldest
    starting QB, might prompt a protest by the American Association of Retired
    Persons (AARP) at Rams Park.

    And gee, isn't it good that Mike Martz dumped Kurt Warner and signed Chris
    Chandler to serve as the No. 2 quarterback? Martz grew tired of Warner's
    turnovers and tendency to hold onto the ball for too long and take sacks. So he
    cut Warner loose.

    Warner experienced some bad days during his decline, but he never was picked
    off six times in a game. Warner is a humble man, but who could blame him for
    smiling a little when he hears about Chandler's by-interception-only party for
    the Panthers? And if Kurt isn't laughing, Brenda probably is.

    "I can take all the blame for this one," Chandler said.
    ...
    -12-13-2004, 06:34 AM
Working...
X