Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Paralysis by over analysis

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Paralysis by over analysis

    Its officially the "off season" and the experts are burning up the airways with their analysis of everything football--which today is the new breed of QB, A.K.A. Russell Wilson. Just like last season's discussion was the declining role of the RB in the NFL.

    Rather then discussing the new model QBs and their impact in today's NFL, I am more torn with the idea I should just stop watching ESPN/NFL NETWORK till next season. For it seems the NFL has gone down this road before. Remembering, long before Wilson put on a pair of cleats there we mobile QBs, notably R. Cunningham (Eagles/Vikings) K. Stewart (Steelers) and more recently M. Vick.

    Not to diminish the accomplishment of R. Wilson this past 2013 season. He even surprised me that he actually won Super Bowl 48 as a QB. But if history is any road map, these mobile QBs tend to have several good seasons and eventually fall off the map.

    Most of today's elite QBs are your conventional pocket-passers, Brady, Manning brothers, Rodgers, Breeze, etc. As much as they are a real asset to a team, they are also a real liability. Peyton's resent SB appearance proves the point. Keep the passing pocket clean, having a strong ground game, and creative plays and play calling, are game winning solutions on offense.

    Which brings the Rams into the discussion. Already another tool in DC Williams has been added to the tool box. So where else do the Rams look to maintain parity in the NFC West to gain dominance. Sadly it seems, that unless the Rams makes serious moves in FA, the Rams will be outside looking in for the next two seasons.

    Fans around Ram's nation are not entirely thrilled with the O-line this 2013 season. But we all recognize a need to be able to stretch the field to make plays and score more points. Plus a pickup or two on defense seems to be on "wish list" as well.

    There it would seem having two top draft picks available seems to be the only answer to get those elements by trading down and picking up more later round picks.

    There it seems the experts opinions seem to have I a cord. A lot of the Seagull team have lots of 4th round players on their squad.

    Perhaps it will indeed be too long an offseason--since the Rams FO and coaching staff tend to be tight-lipped as to their plans for the future

  • #2
    Re: Paralysis by over analysis

    Several thoughts:

    1) I'm completely disinterested in the two weeks of nonsense that precedes the Super Bowl and the week long drivel that follows. I watch and listen to very little of either. Bring on baseball season.

    2) I cannot for the life of me understand how people can continue to be critical of our offensive line's performance this season. They did an admirable job for much of the season despite the usual musical chairs act the coaches had to play due to various injuries. We need upgrades here, and the Long injury is a big concern, but implying the line "wasn't very good" simply isn't true.

    3) Russell Wilson doesn't scare me in the least. That is not to say he isn't a good player (nor a good story for Seahawk fans), but his Super Bowl performance was nothing special. His strength is as a game manager who runs a steady but unspectacular offense, doesn't turn the ball over, and relies on his defense and Marshawn Lynch. There is nothing wrong with this approach, but claims of Russell Wilson being "the next wave of anything" are completely ridiculous. If he didn't have a great defense and Lynch helping him out he'd be Terrelle Pryor. Ok, maybe that's a bit harsh, but the guy is not a phenom.

    4) The draft is as much luck as it is anything else. Making "finds" in the 4th round is easier said than done; if it were that easy, all teams would make them. The Rams have been relatively successful the past couple of years with finding low round talent but have also missed on some players.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Paralysis by over analysis

      Wilson didn't run the ball that much, although his scrambling ability allowed him to extend plays. But the Broncos were missing Von Miller and often had breakdowns in containment due to the fact their defensive ends and OLBs were not too great. I doubt Wilson would be able to extend plays like that against the Rams next year, given the presence of Long, Quinn and an improving Alex Ogletree
      @EssexRam_

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Paralysis by over analysis

        Originally posted by tomahawk247 View Post
        Wilson didn't run the ball that much, although his scrambling ability allowed him to extend plays. But the Broncos were missing Von Miller and often had breakdowns in containment due to the fact their defensive ends and OLBs were not too great. I doubt Wilson would be able to extend plays like that against the Rams next year, given the presence of Long, Quinn and an improving Alex Ogletree
        Heck he wasn't really able to do it this year. In the first game against the Rams he went 10-18 and was sacked 7 times. 80 of his eye-popping 139 yards came on one pass to Golden Tate.

        In the second game, Wilson went 15-23 and was sacked 4 times. Again he failed to reach 200 yards, passing for only 172. 47 of those yards again came on one big play to Golden Tate.

        Combined for the two games Wilson had 8 rushes for 15 yards. The Rams kept him in check for the most part, and except a couple of big chunk plays, Wilson wasn't exactly able to move the ball downfield consistently.

        At the end of the day, the Rams were able to contain Wilson pretty well, as most teams do. He is a game manager more than a game winner. If he were already 30 years old and doing this on the Seahawks, he'd seem more like Trent Dilfer than a rising star. a QB game manager who wins on strong D, not the strength of his arm.

        Now don't get me wrong, I've seen Wilson make some good throws, extend plays, and keep the chains moving. I've also seen him miss open receivers, make bad decisions, and need the defense to bail him out. Is he a good qb? Sure. Is he a great QB? Not yet, he needs to improve in a lot of areas to reach that level. He has the tools to reach those levels, but he hasn't reached it yet.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Paralysis by over analysis

          Most on this forum consider this "new style QBs" over rated. And too true, the losses the Seagulls took bare that if Wilson is contained, they become one dimensional.

          So is it 2 seasons or 1 that the Rams can stamp their mark on the NFL? That is the huge question for us all. I hope, that the Rams already have in mind a solution to the NFC-West challenge. Overcome the strong defenses that rule the division, while adding to a already good defensive squad, seems to be the over all want of the Ram nation.

          Suppose its hurry up and wait for us football junkies. Nothing new has come out in the news, not even a rumor to speculate on. Yah its too soon yet for moves to be made--its likely behind the scenes accountants/Agents/management trying to solidify those players they want to keep and work deals so they know who or what to look for in the coming weeks and months

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Paralysis by over analysis

            The value of a QB that we'll never know about, as fans, is how smart he is. Or how dedicated he is to his trade: watching film, etc.

            I don't think it comes down to mobile QB vs. pocket passer. I think it comes down to smart & motivated vs. dumb & entitled. But that's never reported. Might sound harsh, but I think it's true. Many players have failed simply because they're not smart enough, but it's not nice to say that.

            Comment

            Related Topics

            Collapse

            • Ram Dragoon
              Hybrid verse Conventional: Convention verses Asymmetric
              by Ram Dragoon
              Put 2018 season in the books save for the Championships and Super Bowl, but its safe to conclude the following:

              First up are the hybrid QBs in the league. Watson and Jackson thus far have followed in the foot steps of RG III, Kaepernick, Cordell Stewart, Vick, and Cunningham--they ended up with winning seasons but couldn't get it done when it really matters, the playoffs. Of that list only Kaepernick made it to the Super Bowl (and lost) and is no longer and no long relevant to the game (forget his political views--coaches see the same faults I saw when he was playing; Kaepernick can't read defenses!)

              Only R. Wilson who could be considered a semi-hybrid QB has shown any long term success but when asked to put the game on his arm, he often falls short. There was really no secret why the Squawks adopted a new game plan midseason of run, run and more run first--its because Wilson wasn't getting the job done as a true QB. His legs can buy time to allow him to throw the ball but disciplined defenses maintaining their coverage often would thwart the Squawks passing game. The early part of 2018 season bares that out. With Watson & Jackson their QB skills where questionable and when those skills where needed, they where found wanting. At least Wilson won a Super Bowl. He won one because his running ability was an added asset like Steve Young. Ironically Wilson also lost a Super Bowl because of his arm or lack of QB sills in the waning moments of a Super Bowl.


              Compare all those QBs to the ones who made it to the second round in the playoffs....Goff, Breese, Brady, Prescott, Rivers Mahomes and Luck. Prescott is a poor man's shadow of R. Wilson and is not a franchise QB on any level and was it surprising Prescott failed miserably against the Rams? NO! Lack of a ground game put the ball win or loss squarely on Prescott's shoulders and in his arm. In terms of playoff level of play it was an epic failure along with Luck and Rivers. Perhaps the problem with hybrid QBs is not their athletic talent, but their maturation in developing an understanding of the game, reading defenses, and making pin-point throws. A Goff or a Brady are not going to run for 50 yards in a game, nor is a Rivers or Breeze. They have to get better as QBs because that is all they have as assets as players they have. Its what they learn and don't learn that makes a difference in contender or pretender.

              Why do teams keep going back to the hybrid style of QBs? I really don't know. The Red Skins got one good season out of RG III then bust; The 49whiners got really one good season out of Kaepernick and bust, the same with Cunningham, and a few good seasons with Vick. My memory is foggy with C. Stewart but over all another bust at a hybrid QB. There have been other "mobile" QBs in the league that have made it but as time wears on less and less running for their lives or to make plays. Mahomes will be an...
              -01-13-2019, 03:14 PM
            • Nick
              26 League Insiders Rank the 32 Starting QBs
              by Nick
              Ranking 32 NFL QBs by tier
              We had 26 anonymous league insiders grade every NFL starting QB
              Updated: July 3, 2014, 8:43 AM ET
              By Mike Sando | ESPN Insider

              You know you're onto something interesting when an NFL head coach requests a few additional moments with your laptop.

              "Let me see that one more time," one coach said, leaning forward in his chair.

              I asked 26 league insiders to grade every projected starting quarterback on a 1-5 scale, with "one" reserved for the best and "five" for the worst. Eight general managers, two former GMs, four pro personnel evaluators, seven coordinators, two head coaches, two position coaches and a top executive participated, attacking the project with gusto almost across the board.

              The result of the polling is a composite ranking of all 32 NFL starting quarterbacks, and an understanding of how some of the league's most important evaluators separate the best from the rest at the position. With their input, we were able to compile an average rating of each QB, to rank them in a 1-32 pecking order, and to divide the starters into general tiers. I've passed along insights from voters when applicable.

              Five QBs cracked Tier 1, including one surprise. Ten other QBs fell into Tier 2 and nine landed in Tier 3. The remaining eight starters fell into Tier 4. Five of them received nearly as many Tier 5 votes, but not enough to drop any of them into that bottom level.



              "That is a pretty good consensus of where we are at in the league," one of the GMs said upon surveying the overall results.

              The head coach referenced earlier has finished staring at the results. Now, it's your turn.


              Tier 1 (5)
              T-1. Tom Brady, New England Patriots (1.04 average rating)

              I was deep into this project when ESPN Insider published Sam Monson's piece highlighting Brady's diminished production while under pressure. Monson questioned Brady's status as one of the top five QBs. Still, none of the people I spoke with thought Brady had slipped to a significant degree. Twenty-five of the 26 voters put him in the first tier. The lone exception, a pro personnel evaluator, saved his only Tier 1 vote for Peyton Manning. He was an unusually tough grader at the top, focused more intently than others on the 2013 season, when Manning performed at a historic level.

              "Brady did a lot of good things with limited resources, but I saw holes when they put the onus on him to carry it all, as you saw when Denver beat him," this evaluator said. "Brady has to have more of a running game at this stage. He cannot line up with five wides and win it as consistently as before. I still think Brady is a top-five quarterback, but I would not say he is the best right now."

              That was a minority opinion. A veteran offensive assistant who listed Manning,...
              -07-03-2014, 10:34 AM
            • Goldenfleece
              Over/Underrated Teams in the Preseason
              by Goldenfleece
              This time of year everybody can find reasons why their team is going to be a contender in the upcoming season, but I had some time on my hands, so I thought I'd take another look at a few of the teams with high expectations and see what they have really done to improve their teams in the offseason. Feel free to disagree; these are just one fan's opinions. I left the Rams off the underrated list because I've obviously got a bias there. So without further ado, here's my take on the most overrated/underrated teams in mid-August:

              Most Overrated:

              NY Giants

              Why they're hyped: The Giants have a Manning at the helm, and he's got weapons: Burress, Toomer, Shockey, and Barber. On defense, the team has some great pass rushers including Osi Umenyiora, Michael Strahan, and linebacker Lavar Arrington, along with first rounder Mathias Kiwanuka. Will Demps should be an upgrade at FS.

              Why they won't live up to it: First, the defense. They lost 2 defensive tackles in free agency. Clancy and Allen were not exactly worldbeaters at their position, but the Giants don't have proven talent to replace them. William Joseph started 10 games at the right DT spot and had 2 sacks; he's the pass-rushing DT. Looking at their roster, I can't figure out who is supposed to be starting next to him. Fred Robbins maybe? Robbins couldn't even hold down the backup job last season. At corner, they added Sam Madison but lost Will Allen who is not only younger but has also put up better numbers in recent years. It looks as though Will Peterson will be replaced on the other side by last year's nickelback, Corey Webster. Webster has shown some promise, but it's still his first year as a starter. Arrington has a reputation as a free lancer who gets out of position trying to make the big play; it has also been said he can't handle coverage responsibilities. The Giants should still be at least a little better at WLB and FS but worse at both DT spots and both corners.

              On offense, Eli looked worse towards the end of the season, throwing 4 TDs and 7 ints in 5 games in December. He looked shaky in the playoffs, too, throwing for a paltry 113 yards, 3 ints, and no TDs while taking 4 sacks and coughing up a fumble in a loss to the Panthers. Tiki on the other hand had a remarkable season, but age is a factor here. Take the example of Curtis Martin who led the league in rushing yards with 1,697 yards in 2004. Then he hit the wall. His rushing average the next season fell from 4.6 yards/carry to 3.3, and his rushing total was nearly a thousand yards less at 735. Maybe it'll happen this year, maybe it won't...but one of these days age is going to catch up with Barber, and when it does, it'll happen fast. It's probably not a good sign that he has talked about retiring after this season. Barber has said, "We'll see how my body holds up. Last year was a grind for me. Even though I played great, I battled to be healthy. We'll see...
              -08-16-2006, 06:05 AM
            • RamsFanSam
              Sam's Silver Linings - Week Four (2013)
              by RamsFanSam
              There ARE no "silver linings". I chose this for the thread title simply because most people expect me to find at least one good thing in every game.

              This time, there was no "diamond in the goat's butt", so to speak.

              Instead, we were witness to ineptitude, inexperience, lackadaisical performances, extremely puzzling play calling, and way too damn many injuries, including a serious one.

              Last night, I was on facebook shortly before the game. When kickoff rolled around, I set the laptop down, leaving facebook open. It didn't take long for me to hear the audible notification of people posting their thoughts. Most of these posts seemed to follow a similar theme, although there was a few others that didn't make any sense to anyone except the poster. On second thought, most of the posts didn't make sense.

              The majority of the posts were blaming Bradford. I can understand how people who don't know much about football are willing to blame the QB for every little problem, but one person (who happens to be a member of this forum) really got me scratching my head: they posted about how it was all Bradford's fault that Laurinaitis dropped the two possible interceptions. Excuse me, but it really takes a special kind of stupid to go that far.

              The rest of the posts were the usual ignorant rants from people that either have no clue about the Rams or St. Louis, or both. People were posting about how the Rams needed to move to LA so they could win a game (gee...I never knew winning required a certain physical location), or they posted about how the dome was less than half full (yes, before 5:00 PM and after 11:00 PM, I am sure it was, but during the game, there were over 56,000 people there), or they were talking about how there was whiners fans in the seats (I didn't know we discriminated against people with bad taste by not letting them into the dome). My favorite "stupid comment" of the night was when some person posted about how a fan was wearing a Rams jersey, but a Cardinals hat. I guess he and his friends that were making a big deal out of that don't realize that St. Louis is home to the St. Louis Cardinals, who, hopefully, will clinch their division later today.

              The one thing about all of these comments is that they are ALL wrong. It's not Bradford. It's not St. Louis. It's not empty seats, or even fans wearing a hat that doesn't match their jersey. What it IS, is that the Rams had taken a couple of steps forward, but since last year, have taken several steps in the wrong direction.

              Our offensive coordinator, Brian Schottenheimer, is well known in the NFL. His most notable accomplishment must be the way he took the New York Jets offense, and led them into insignificance and mediocrity. Last year, he actually brought a new sense of hope to the Rams, and this translated into an improved product on the field. However, it seems that his game plan...
              -09-27-2013, 02:53 PM
            • Barry Waller
              2013 Safety Class Was As Advertised
              by Barry Waller
              While there was heted discussion here about the ranking at the position last draft, most agreed that it was maybe the best safety crop ever in a draft. SO how did my own ranking work out for me?

              Here is how I had my draft loist stacked on draft day

              1. Eric Reid - I had Reid on top because of his potential as a big time play maker, and as the most physically gifted safety in the draft. he went 18th, three picks after Kenny Vaccaro.
              Reid is certainly helped by going to a gr eat defense, but he stepped in for a Pro Bowl player and t hey didn't miss a beat with Reid contributing 4 picks and 2 fumble recoveries his rookie season, with a couple games left.

              The other safeties are doing well, but I t hink my own rating on Reid turned out to be right on.

              2. Matt Elam - I liked Elam better as a hitter safety than Vaccaro, because of my question on vaccaro's durability, the way he threw his body around, especially his head. After a slow start, Elam has started making a name for himself for a Raven team with a shot to make t he playoffs still.

              3. Kenny Vaccaro - again, I didn't question his heart, or his skills when putting him here, and not wanting him for the Rams. Vaccaro has had some injury issues, though playing through them, including mild concussions, but is now out for the season with a busted ankle. He did impact the Saint s defense as a rookie, but just one pick and one FF reinforce his lack of big play ability, and the injury concern remains for a player much like Toby Wright, former Ram, who had a very short career due to his playing style.

              4. John Cyprien - Cyprien was a tackle machine in college, with huge upside, and a guy many had the Rams looking at in round two, when t hey had a second rounder. Turns out he went to the Jaguars with the very FIRST pick in round two, so the RAms never had a shot even had they kept that #2, just like t hey never had a shot at Kyle long, another possible target. Cyprien has been a very bright spot for the Jags, who seem to be coming on a bit late.

              5. Tyrann Matteu - Rams fans now wish Jeff Fsiher would have gone to the bad boy pool one more time and took a chance on the honey badger.

              6. TJ McDonald - As expected Mcdonald is a mature kid, and solid player , who really has a nice upside, came back from broken leg without missing a beat, and is the sure starter at SS in 2014 and beyond, if he stays healthy.

              7. DJ Swearinger - Instant starter for the Texans, and having a decent year for a bad team.

              8. Shamarko Thomas - The combine phenom who some thought may have been the Rams guy in round two , lasted till just before their pick in round four Thomas has started a couple games for the Steelers, but as expected is very raw.

              While it would have been nice to get a free safety along with McDonald, the Rams were able to add a starter wit...
              -12-23-2013, 06:54 PM
            Working...
            X