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  • GreatestShow99
    started a topic No chance of a comeback

    No chance of a comeback

    No chance of a comeback
    By Dane Watkins / January 21st, 2015
    Between the two of us, my father and I have witnessed nearly every moment of the pitiful pro football on display in St. Louis over the past 55 years, first with the Cardinals, and then with the Rams. But for the first time in my life, we will not be renewing our season tickets with the Rams.

    The Rams have broken my heart year after year, disappointed me, and left me wondering why I spend my money and my time watching them play. It’s been a part of my life since I was three years old.

    Unfortunately, recent events have changed all that. I never thought I would stop watching the Rams, but what transpired over the past few weeks was too much to endure.

    Stan Kroenke, owner of the Rams, has decided the team will be playing football in Los Angeles soon. While nothing is official yet, the Rams are as good as gone.

    Kroenke has the money (he’s one of the richest human beings on the planet, and his wife “Princess Wal-Mart” is worth more than him), he has the land (a however-many-acre plot in Inglewood, California with space not only for a stadium but room to develop parking lots and mini malls to accompany the field and fatten his wallet) and he has the team.

    People have tried telling me not to worry—that it’s presumptuous to think the Rams will leave, that there’s no need to fret yet. They say the NFL has ruled out submissions to relocate in 2015—true, but not in 2016. They say the NFL owners wanted to control the LA market and that they don’t trust or like Kroenke. They say the NFL’s own bylaws prohibit a team from re-locating unless they have negotiated “in good faith” with the home city. They say it’s too early to say anything for certain.

    Please. To believe the Rams will be in St. Louis in five years is incredibly naďve.

    Firstly, the other NFL owners may not like Kroenke, but they do like money. And a team in LA would mean more money for them.

    The NFL has owned the LA market for 20 years and done virtually nothing with it. Never before has such a viable owner, location and team been available for relocation.

    It’s hard to move a team to Los Angeles; the real-estate market is a mess and the taxes are astronomical. But Kroenke already has the land, and can afford the taxes. They might not like him, but he can make them more money. A team in the second-biggest TV market in the United States will bring in more cash than a team in St. Louis. It’s simple and unfortunate math. If the LA Clippers are worth $2 billion, how high might the Rams’ stock rise if they were to move?

    As for the NFL’s bylaws, they aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on. They were designed to keep people from owning professional sports teams in different franchises and thus tamper with different markets.

    But the NFL is already making exceptions for Kroenke in terms of their “bylaws.” When Kroenke bought the Rams in 2010, he already owned professional sports teams in another market: Denver. He owns the Avalanche, the Nuggets, and the Major League Soccer team the Rapids. This means Kroenoke has violated the NFL’s cross-ownership laws multiple times.

    To get around this, Kroenke bequeathed the teams to his son and daughter. How very generous of him. The NFL didn’t call him on this nonsense (it’s been four years), so to believe he has to negotiate in “good faith” with St. Louis is preposterous.

    Besides, he already has a plan to deal with the pesky people who remind him of the relatively strong support in St. Louis. He’s alienated every fan with his plans in LA. The Rams will play 2015 in St. Louis in a nearly-empty dome. And then Kroenke will claim he has no support and will have to leave.

    It’s amazing how transparent his plan is, but I’ve seen this movie before. (Maybe you have too—it’s called Major League.) If the NFL does stand up to Kroenke, he won’t hesitate to sue. And the NFL wouldn’t want to face a lawsuit. They’ve had enough bad PR lately.

    Kroenke will throw money at the appropriate people (the Spanos family in San Diego comes to mind), and he will get what he wants. Multi-billionaires tend to get that.

    And to those who look to Gov. Jay Nixon’s stadium task force leaders Dave Peacock and Bob Blitz to save the day: You need to adjust your expectations. Is it a nice drawing? Yes. But where is the money behind it? It’s mostly public money. If the public is called on to raise taxes to fund a new stadium, (for the second time in 20 years) the initiative will fail.

    Furthermore, Peacock has already claimed the stadium needs an investment of at least $200 million from an NFL owner. They won’t get a dime from Kroenke.

    Even worse, the city doesn’t even own all of the land necessary for the plan to work, and they plan for the stadium to be publicly operated. Why would Kroenke (who loves money) agree to lease a stadium that isn’t his in a city like St. Louis, when he can own a stadium and all of the amenities around it in a city like Los Angeles? Kroenke made his money in real estate. He buys land. He develops land. He does not lease.

    My dad and I left the final Rams game against the Giants a few minutes early. We were rounding a concourse when we saw the Rams block a field goal against New York on the Jumbotron. We had the ball back with only moments remaining. Just the faintest chance of a comeback. I asked my dad if we could stop and see the end of the game. I wanted to see. Even then, I still believed. Maybe the Rams had a miracle up their sleeves.

    They didn’t. Shaun Hill fumbled the snap from shotgun and the Giants recovered. I had to laugh. I was such a sucker. But not anymore.

  • gap
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    Originally posted by Mikey View Post
    I think I'll stop with this debate with you. You talk about how great the support is in St. Louis then you say they'll only support them if they're winning. You say a good game vs a quality opponent and a string of good games will improve support, but only if it's a winning season.

    I think there are some great fans in St. Louis, I've met many on my trips there for games. It just appears the overall feeling for the Rams is one of disregard. They couldn't care less and will only go to games if they're winning. I'm not sniping at you, I respect you and your opinions and your love of the Rams. But I'm not the kind of guy that ignores some of these claims that are being made that recent history has shown us to be false.

    I feel for the Rams fans in St. Louis, all Rams fans do. Will LA support them more? Only time will tell, I'm not going to use what happened 20+ years ago to make that decision. We'll only find out after they move and get in their new stadium. The Rams are getting better and I hope all the Ram fans today will still be rooting for them when this all comes together, when this good roster takes the next step with playoff success.
    Once again, you took one sentence (that was an example of a specific game in a period of time) and ignore a paragraph worth of statement that says what a true turn around would mean, and then distort that to support your false argument. I am glad you are done debating this with me, as all you do is distort what I say to make your lies look like truth.


    gap
    .

    Leave a comment:


  • Rambos
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    I get the size of the LA market and think IF they move will have a huge fan base. The point I was trying to make if they have to make a late decision to move I'd perfer them to wait and have the time to market the team and get off to a great start. Those that think they would pack the stadiums regardless of lack of time to promote the team may be right. I just would hate to see a less then stellar support day one. I think NJ's point about the growth of the NFL since the 80's and 90's will have an impact on the Rams that will be hard to calculate but it should be a huge plus.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mikey
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    Originally posted by KoaKoi View Post
    I agree with you in disagreeing with Rambos. With respect, I think Rambos hugely underestimates two things:

    First, the market in terms of population. St. Louis metro area (which includes east st louis) is roughly 2.8 million (per google). The southern california area (ie. LA county (12m) and San Bernadino county (4m) alone) is upwards of 16 million! (again, per google).

    Second, the die hard rabidity of the LA fan base. There are tons of die hards who grew up watching their fathers watch the Rams and then watching the Rams themselves, then watched the team move thousands of miles away only to still watch and root for them. For the Rams product to return to CA will be like Black Friday at a Walmart... just a huge ticket feeding frenzy, only tempered by the fact that the good tickets will be ridiculously expensive.

    I'm not projecting the Rose Bowl or Coliseum (which hold like 90k each) will necessarily sell out, but they'll definitely be full.

    I've loved traveling to St. Louis 1-3 times per year for Rams games. Those trips are always special. But for every flying trip to St. Louis, I'll be able to afford 3 times as many road trips to LA. So, I'll not complain either way. I'll be a fan either way. Love everybody here. Hope St. Louisians don't feel as betrayed as we did in '95, but understand it if they do and stop rooting for em.
    I'm in favor of the move as much as anybody but we really don't know what the reception will be like in LA. And we won't know that until the new stadium is built. So even if they move back for 2016 a true gauge of support won't be known until after 2018. Anything else is just speculation.

    Leave a comment:


  • KoaKoi
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    Originally posted by RAMFANRAIDERHATER View Post
    .... ...

    But I think a move now is going to be an instant winner in LA. Be it the Coliseum or Rose Bowl, I see huge crowds right out of the gate. It's a big piece of (returning) history that many fans will celebrate and embrace. I see easily 70,000+ fans attending home games when they return home.

    I agree with you in disagreeing with Rambos. With respect, I think Rambos hugely underestimates two things:

    First, the market in terms of population. St. Louis metro area (which includes east st louis) is roughly 2.8 million (per google). The southern california area (ie. LA county (12m) and San Bernadino county (4m) alone) is upwards of 16 million! (again, per google).

    Second, the die hard rabidity of the LA fan base. There are tons of die hards who grew up watching their fathers watch the Rams and then watching the Rams themselves, then watched the team move thousands of miles away only to still watch and root for them. For the Rams product to return to CA will be like Black Friday at a Walmart... just a huge ticket feeding frenzy, only tempered by the fact that the good tickets will be ridiculously expensive.

    I'm not projecting the Rose Bowl or Coliseum (which hold like 90k each) will necessarily sell out, but they'll definitely be full.

    I've loved traveling to St. Louis 1-3 times per year for Rams games. Those trips are always special. But for every flying trip to St. Louis, I'll be able to afford 3 times as many road trips to LA. So, I'll not complain either way. I'll be a fan either way. Love everybody here. Hope St. Louisians don't feel as betrayed as we did in '95, but understand it if they do and stop rooting for em.
    Last edited by KoaKoi; -01-28-2015, 11:37 AM. Reason: editor strike

    Leave a comment:


  • Mikey
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    Originally posted by gap View Post
    Read it again. The "ONE GOOD GAME against a quality opponent" was an example and proof that it happened once before. Excuse me for leaving off that the one good game was after a 4-0 start. The one good game against a quality opponent showed that it wasn't a pie in the sky pipe dream. And, again, it was an example of what happened before, not a comment that it will take only one good game. There needs to be a sign that it is more than a fluke, which is apparently what last year's few games were, base on the 6-10 finish.


    gap
    .
    I think I'll stop with this debate with you. You talk about how great the support is in St. Louis then you say they'll only support them if they're winning. You say a good game vs a quality opponent and a string of good games will improve support, but only if it's a winning season.

    I think there are some great fans in St. Louis, I've met many on my trips there for games. It just appears the overall feeling for the Rams is one of disregard. They couldn't care less and will only go to games if they're winning. I'm not sniping at you, I respect you and your opinions and your love of the Rams. But I'm not the kind of guy that ignores some of these claims that are being made that recent history has shown us to be false.

    I feel for the Rams fans in St. Louis, all Rams fans do. Will LA support them more? Only time will tell, I'm not going to use what happened 20+ years ago to make that decision. We'll only find out after they move and get in their new stadium. The Rams are getting better and I hope all the Ram fans today will still be rooting for them when this all comes together, when this good roster takes the next step with playoff success.

    Leave a comment:


  • gap
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    Originally posted by gap View Post
    Of course, staying in St. Louis this year can be a bad thing for the move to LA. If the RAMS finally turn the corner next year, have a winning season (especially early), and have a playoff season, ticket sales will go through the roof. The current Season Ticket holders will actually use their tickets instead of stubhubbing them, and the Dome will be rocking like it was 8+ years ago. Then Stan would have less leverage to move to LA.

    For anyone that doubts this, look at the season ticket stats from 1999. I could buy just about any ticket for face value before the first 49whiners' game. After the RAMS crushed them in that game, you couldn't hardly buy a ticket. I know someone that bought PSLs that year. In the mad rush to sell PSLs and Season Tickets, they double sold her PSL. For that year they honored her PSL in the lower bowl 'wheelchair' seats because that was the only thing available that was as good or better than what she bought.

    All of that was because, after 4 years of bad football, the team finally had ONE GOOD GAME against a quality opponent. Let the RAMS have a string of really good games, against quality and not-so-much quality opponents, and LA has less chance of the RAMS getting to LA. No, this is NOT GOOD for LA fans, but it could be really good for RAMS fans.


    gap
    .
    Originally posted by Mikey View Post
    You said all it took was one big win. Now you're putting qualifiers on it. I gave you three good wins ina a four game stretch with one very close loss. Those good fans have seen an attempt to give them quality football.
    Read it again. The "ONE GOOD GAME against a quality opponent" was an example and proof that it happened once before. Excuse me for leaving off that the one good game was after a 4-0 start. The one good game against a quality opponent showed that it wasn't a pie in the sky pipe dream. And, again, it was an example of what happened before, not a comment that it will take only one good game. There needs to be a sign that it is more than a fluke, which is apparently what last year's few games were, base on the 6-10 finish.


    gap
    .

    Leave a comment:


  • r8rh8rmike
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    Originally posted by Mikey View Post
    You said all it took was one big win. Now you're putting qualifiers on it. I gave you three good wins ina a four game stretch with one very close loss. Those good fans have seen an attempt to give them quality football.
    Good points. Not only were the Rams winning, they were winning in dominating fashion, and were the talk of the NFL. Almost everybody was singing their praises, yet the EJD was still covered in a sea of red in the upper decks, so I don't buy this notion that fans will pack the Dome if the team starts winning.

    It's too late, there is too much animosity, and the writing is on the wall. Even if the crowds did get bigger, Kroenke has forced the issue on a move. He bought land, partnered with another developer, has worked out a deal with the City of Inglewood, and announced construction of a new stadium with no public tax money.

    As many of those in St. Louis have stated, they're gone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Truth
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    Originally posted by RAMFANRAIDERHATER View Post
    I disagree. I think, as many here do, that staying in Stl in 2015 will be a mistake and detrimental to the team and the win/loss record. Too many distractions, with angry fans that will boo at any chance during a game when things go south. (worse than they do now) ...and a stadium filled with opposing teams fans. (worse than it is now) The players will be glad to get a road game if they stay in Stl this year. Just my honest opinion.

    But I think a move now is going to be an instant winner in LA. Be it the Coliseum or Rose Bowl, I see huge crowds right out of the gate. It's a big piece of (returning) history that many fans will celebrate and embrace. I see easily 70,000+ fans attending home games when they return home.
    Mr. Kroenke is not going to announce/move the team until he is certain he can go forward with his plan in Inglewood. That's just good business, and that means nothing definite until June. if the June ballot goes as most feel it will, and the plan is approved by local voters, it would be too late to move the team for 2015. I do believe it's Mr. Kroenke's intention to move the team back to L.A. I also firmly believe that there's nothing the NFL can do to stop him. Slow him down, maybe. But, ultimately, the NFL will want to avoid anti-trust litigation. I know many are hoping that the plan in STL is approved. Even if it is, as it is, no one can force Mr. Kroenke to pay for it. If he is unwilling, there is no plan. All anyone can do is wait.

    Leave a comment:


  • MACD
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    Pardon my naivete, but is it actually possible to play the 2015 season in St. Louis, with the issue of the Rams moving/staying still in doubt? In other words, what kind of ultimate schedule is Kroenke up against?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mikey
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    Originally posted by gap View Post
    Remind me again how losing to San Diego is a win? Can you also remind me how to figure 6-10 into a winning season? Remind me again how a 1-4 start is better than 5-0 start? And how does all this show the local fans that a winning season is on the way? 34-6 drubbing by Minni and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory loss to Dallas, and yet another embarrassing loss to the 49whiners is not what I would call a 'turn around' season.

    I will say it again, a TURN AROUND 2015 season in St. Louis is a bad thing for the LA fans because St. Louis fans will turn that stadium into a rockin' environment if the RAMS will finally put something on the field that resembles good, disciplined football. It only took TWICE as long as some other cities for the fans to recognize the team is being mismanaged in an attempt to have an excuse to move. And those good fans will be back in droves when they finally see an attempt to give them quality football.


    gap
    .
    You said all it took was one big win. Now you're putting qualifiers on it. I gave you three good wins ina a four game stretch with one very close loss. Those good fans have seen an attempt to give them quality football.

    Leave a comment:


  • tomahawk247
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    I took a look at the average attendence for an NFL team in 2014, divided it by the capacity of the stadium, and came up with a percentage which analyses the amount the stadium was "filled" for each NFL team.

    I then also looked at those teams with "losing" records, since it has been suggested that a losing team won't get the support from it's market.

    The bottom five ranked teams when it comes to percentage attendence are Oakland, Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Jacksonville and of course, St Louis.

    In fact, only two teams had percentages below 90%, Oakland at 85.06%, and St Louis at 87.30%

    Poor performance on the field alone does not account for this. There were 10 teams with records worse than or equal to the Rams. You have teams like Tampa and Tennessee with two win seasons. And yet they fill the stands better than the Rams? It's just ridiculous really. At some point the excuse that the team isn't winning enough just doesn't work. If Washington can fill their bigger stadium better than the Rams whilst putting out a team that gets shut out by said Rams, then the people of St Louis can do better and actually turn up for games.

    Leave a comment:


  • gap
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    Originally posted by Mikey View Post
    Gap I'd love to believe this were true but we saw an example of why that's not true with the current state of things in St Louis. This past years Rams team saw a home game vs the defending AFC Champ Denver Broncos. We went on to dominate this game and beat first ballot HOF Peyton Manning 22-7. The Rams led from start to finish and the game was never in doubt. There is video of Rams players during this game wondering why the Bronco's and Peyton were getting so many cheers and cheered so loudly they were baffled how this could happen.

    We followed that up by going to 2013 playoff team San Diego and losing in the closing minutes after an ill advised throw from Hill.

    Now the team didn't get down hell no they followed that close game vs a quality opponent by absolutely annihilating the Raiders 52-0! In front of the home crowd too!

    Our young Ram team followed that up with a Road shutout this time against the Redskins 24-0! The Rams have just completed back to back shutouts and winning 3 of 4 games. The only loss a road game vs a tough playoff team.

    So what happens then? They come home for a nationally televised game vs a division rival. The team that abandoned the city of St Louis and moved to the desert with their hated owner Bidwell! This is a team that's on the way to a playoff spot surely we can expect a high turnout for the game right? I mean our defense has just come off a 4 game stretch that was amazing 2 shut outs and holding Petyon to under 10 points for the first time in his HOF career inside a dome! Wikipedia lists the game attendance at 55,880. Over 10k below what the listed capacity of the EJD is. Many of us who watched the game on TV would be surprised if there were even that many there in the stands.

    St Louis fans had a golden opportunity to show us what you claim they'll do next year. They dropped the ball and as badly as the Rams did in that opportunity game.

    Both sides of this LA vs StL fued just need to just stop the infighting it's pointless and gets us nowhere. I make almost annual trips back to StL for games, this was the first year in a quite a few I haven't gone, and meet some really great Rams fans. I wish this whole stadium mess would have resolved itself so that we could all just go on rooting for our favorite team together. But I don't know who's poisoned the fan base more, Stan or us Rams fans ourselves.
    Remind me again how losing to San Diego is a win? Can you also remind me how to figure 6-10 into a winning season? Remind me again how a 1-4 start is better than 5-0 start? And how does all this show the local fans that a winning season is on the way? 34-6 drubbing by Minni and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory loss to Dallas, and yet another embarrassing loss to the 49whiners is not what I would call a 'turn around' season.

    I will say it again, a TURN AROUND 2015 season in St. Louis is a bad thing for the LA fans because St. Louis fans will turn that stadium into a rockin' environment if the RAMS will finally put something on the field that resembles good, disciplined football. It only took TWICE as long as some other cities for the fans to recognize the team is being mismanaged in an attempt to have an excuse to move. And those good fans will be back in droves when they finally see an attempt to give them quality football.


    gap
    .

    Leave a comment:


  • Mikey
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    Originally posted by gap View Post
    All of that was because, after 4 years of bad football, the team finally had ONE GOOD GAME against a quality opponent. Let the RAMS have a string of really good games, against quality and not-so-much quality opponents, and LA has less chance of the RAMS getting to LA. No, this is NOT GOOD for LA fans, but it could be really good for RAMS fans.


    gap
    .
    Gap I'd love to believe this were true but we saw an example of why that's not true with the current state of things in St Louis. This past years Rams team saw a home game vs the defending AFC Champ Denver Broncos. We went on to dominate this game and beat first ballot HOF Peyton Manning 22-7. The Rams led from start to finish and the game was never in doubt. There is video of Rams players during this game wondering why the Bronco's and Peyton were getting so many cheers and cheered so loudly they were baffled how this could happen.

    We followed that up by going to 2013 playoff team San Diego and losing in the closing minutes after an ill advised throw from Hill.

    Now the team didn't get down hell no they followed that close game vs a quality opponent by absolutely annihilating the Raiders 52-0! In front of the home crowd too!

    Our young Ram team followed that up with a Road shutout this time against the Redskins 24-0! The Rams have just completed back to back shutouts and winning 3 of 4 games. The only loss a road game vs a tough playoff team.

    So what happens then? They come home for a nationally televised game vs a division rival. The team that abandoned the city of St Louis and moved to the desert with their hated owner Bidwell! This is a team that's on the way to a playoff spot surely we can expect a high turnout for the game right? I mean our defense has just come off a 4 game stretch that was amazing 2 shut outs and holding Petyon to under 10 points for the first time in his HOF career inside a dome! Wikipedia lists the game attendance at 55,880. Over 10k below what the listed capacity of the EJD is. Many of us who watched the game on TV would be surprised if there were even that many there in the stands.

    St Louis fans had a golden opportunity to show us what you claim they'll do next year. They dropped the ball and as badly as the Rams did in that opportunity game.

    Both sides of this LA vs StL fued just need to just stop the infighting it's pointless and gets us nowhere. I make almost annual trips back to StL for games, this was the first year in a quite a few I haven't gone, and meet some really great Rams fans. I wish this whole stadium mess would have resolved itself so that we could all just go on rooting for our favorite team together. But I don't know who's poisoned the fan base more, Stan or us Rams fans ourselves.

    Leave a comment:


  • gap
    replied
    Re: No chance of a comeback

    Of course, staying in St. Louis this year can be a bad thing for the move to LA. If the RAMS finally turn the corner next year, have a winning season (especially early), and have a playoff season, ticket sales will go through the roof. The current Season Ticket holders will actually use their tickets instead of stubhubbing them, and the Dome will be rocking like it was 8+ years ago. Then Stan would have less leverage to move to LA.

    For anyone that doubts this, look at the season ticket stats from 1999. I could buy just about any ticket for face value before the first 49whiners' game. After the RAMS crushed them in that game, you couldn't hardly buy a ticket. I know someone that bought PSLs that year. In the mad rush to sell PSLs and Season Tickets, they double sold her PSL. For that year they honored her PSL in the lower bowl 'wheelchair' seats because that was the only thing available that was as good or better than what she bought.

    All of that was because, after 4 years of bad football, the team finally had ONE GOOD GAME against a quality opponent. Let the RAMS have a string of really good games, against quality and not-so-much quality opponents, and LA has less chance of the RAMS getting to LA. No, this is NOT GOOD for LA fans, but it could be really good for RAMS fans.


    gap
    .

    Leave a comment:

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    Originally Published: March 18, 2015
    By David Fleming | ESPN The Magazine

    THE FIRST PIECE of property Stan Kroenke ever cared about sits abandoned now, perched on the edge of an endless swath of farmland, sinking into the thick coffee-colored soil of central Missouri. Some of the original charm of Enos Stanley Kroenke's quaint childhood home in Mora (population: 424) remains intact. The green front door still features an old-fashioned brass and porcelain doorbell crank. The intricate wood detailing under the roof eaves has survived. But after years of neglect by the current owners, who converted the old water well into a TV antenna, any gust of wind can scatter giant flakes of gray house paint across the overgrown landscaping. "It was a beautiful little farmhouse at one time," whispers a neighbor. "It's not now."

    Kroenke, the multibillionaire real estate developer and owner of the St. Louis Rams, once recounted how he used to sit on the narrow front porch here and, as the summer sun set behind the corn, soak in the faint, scratchy radio broadcasts of the St. Louis Cardinals with his father and grandfather. Alvin Kroenke so loved the Cardinals that he named his eldest son after two of 
the team's homegrown Hall of Famers: the hardworking Enos "Country" Slaughter and the quiet, humble effortless hitter Stan "the Man" Musial.

    Today, though, the family's once idyllic front porch is full of gaping holes in its weather-worn floorboards. And Missourians fear that Kroenke's relationship with his native state 
is falling into similar disrepair.

    Since January, the reclusive Kroenke, 67, has been maneuvering his NFL team west, out of Missouri and into what would be the crown jewel of his massive real estate development and sports empire: a proposed 80,000-seat NFL stadium in Inglewood, California, with a space-age retractable roof, open-air sides and a U.S.-record $1.86 billion budget.

    Five decades after he left Mora, Kroenke has amassed a net worth of $6.3 billion, according to Forbes, and through his array of vineyards, ranches and strip malls, many of them anchored by Wal-Mart, he has become the eighth-largest landowner in the United States. All the while, he has collected sports franchises like vintage cars. Besides the Rams, he owns the English Premier League team Arsenal, valued at $1.3 billion, the Denver Nuggets, the Colorado Avalanche, MLS's Colorado Rapids, the Colorado Mammoth of the National Lacrosse League and Denver's Pepsi Center, where he maintains a 12,000-square-foot penthouse apartment on the top two floors, complete with a theater, a gym and pristine views of the Rockies.

    Most of these, however, would become secondary knickknacks if Kroenke is indeed the man who brings...
    -03-23-2015, 12:36 PM
  • MauiRam
    If Stan Kroenke gets the Dodgers, doesn't L.A. get the Rams?
    by MauiRam
    Los Angeles Times
    By T.J. Simers
    February 1, 2012

    Will St. Louis Rams owner Stan Kroenke be the one who helps steer a football team back to Los Angeles?

    I had dinner with Georgia Frontiere, where the Rams' owner chose to tell me about each of her seven husbands — four too many for me to make a newspaper deadline and still explain to the people of Los Angeles how she had just won approval to move her team to St. Louis.

    I hopped into a waiting limo in Oakland, expecting to find Al Davis, but got a pair of Raiderettes instead. So I never did get around to meeting with Davis to discuss the possibility of the Raiders returning to L.A.

    Former super-agent Michael Ovitz sent a martini to my hotel room and had Tom Cruise and Jerry West call to talk football and the prospect of bringing the NFL back to town. Ovitz also asked me not to park my Ford Escort in front of his Rockingham home so no one might think he was entertaining a poor person.

    When it comes to the NFL and L.A., I find almost nothing too far-fetched. But now maybe comes the capper of them all.

    If Frank McCourt chooses Stan Kroenke as the Dodgers' winning bidder, McCourt does something that Eli Broad, Ed Roski, Mayor Riordan, Peter O'Malley and so many others could not do.

    He not only brings the NFL back to town, but he gives fans here the Rams again.

    There is no other reason for Kroenke to bid on the Dodgers, even though there are NFL rules that prevent an owner from owning a baseball team in one city and a football team in another.

    Imagine a statue of McCourt outside L.A.'s new football stadium, his arms outstretched and palms up in the hopes someone might drop a dollar or two in them.

    Crazy, I know, but no more so than driving to a dog track in Tampa years ago with the daughter, her Notre Dame roommate, Rams executive John Shaw, his wife-to-be and Kroenke all jammed into a rental car.

    I've seen Kroenke, who married the daughter of the co-founder of Wal-Mart, go pale losing a $2 show bet on some poky mutt. So I remain somewhat dubious he will be the last bidder standing after McCourt squeezes the very last nickel out of bidders.

    But I do like the idea of greeters outside a stadium as fans arrive.

    I can't imagine McCourt ripping Kroenke off, but Kroenke is the determined sort. He wanted badly to be a sports owner, and now he not only owns the Rams but the Denver Nuggets, Colorado Avalanche, Colorado Rapids and Mammoth as well as the British soccer powerhouse Arsenal.

    He also owns a pair of wineries, and if you owned the Rams wouldn't you need a drink?

    He has a home in Malibu, and he put together a sports TV network in Colorado, which the new owner of the Dodgers may want to do here.

    If you live in St. Louis, today is the deadline for the Convention...
    -02-02-2012, 09:48 AM
  • MauiRam
    Balzer: Kroenke is on NFL committee for new LA stadium
    by MauiRam
    By Howard Balzer
    Friday, April 16, 2010

    The Rams will officially be on the clock in less than one week when the NFL Draft begins at 6:30 Central time on Thursday. It now seems clear St. Louis is also on the clock when it comes to keeping its football team.

    Alvin Reid’s column details his strong feelings about what St. Louis will likely have to do to keep from losing the NFL for the second time, and likely forever. Believe him. He and others that have talked and written about this in the last 72 hours aren’t alarmists. They are realists.

    It is clear the stakes will be even higher should Stan Kroenke gain control of the Rams. On the same day the Los Angeles Times revealed another plan being put together to build a new stadium in the area, a chilling fact was discovered related to how close Kroenke is to what’s happening in L.A.

    And no, I’m not talking about the fact he spends a lot of time on his boat at one of his homes in Malibu.

    It turns out Kroenke is a member of the league’s Los Angeles Stadium Working Group committee. Roll that one around in your mind a few minutes. Everyone I mentioned that to Thursday was silent for a few seconds, and then said, “Oh, my God.”

    It means Kroenke is privy to every detail, every plan, simply everything that is related to those trying to get a stadium built there.

    For several years, Los Angeles businessman Ed Roski has been front and center in the efforts to build a stadium in the City of Industry.

    The Times reported Thursday that businessmen Casey Wasserman and Tim Leiweke are considering a plan to build a stadium behind the Staples Center. They had tried a similar plan about eight years ago, but they shelved it when the Coliseum Commission tried to make its own bid. That, of course, eventually failed.

    Wasserman is the founder and CEO of the Wasserman Media Group. Leiweke, a St. Louis native, was the assistant general manager of the St. Louis Steamers soccer team in 1979, and is now president and CEO of AEG (Anschutz Entertainment Group), which owns the Staples Center and a 1,000-room hotel near the arena. Leiweke’s brother, Tod, is CEO of the Seattle Seahawks.

    One line in the Times story said, “So far, the concept is in the preliminary stages, although the NFL is aware of it and is monitoring its progress.”

    We’re quite sure Kroenke is doing just that.
    -04-16-2010, 09:04 AM
  • MauiRam
    Bernie: Way too early to panic about Rams ..
    by MauiRam
    BY BERNIE MIKLASZ, Sunday, June 12, 2011 11:00 am

    When word got out that the Rams had been contacted by the group that's trying to recruit an NFL team for Los Angeles, it caused a wave of panic in St. Louis.

    This apparently was headline news. Judging by the way the story was played up by St. Louis television stations, you would have thought a fleet of moving vans was out at Rams Park, loading up Sam Bradford and the team's other worldly possessions for an immediate transfer to LA.

    But really, was anyone really shocked? Los Angeles obviously wants an NFL franchise to anchor a massive stadium project there. The Rams are one of several NFL teams drawing attention from LA for obvious reasons.

    This isn't exactly a covert CIA operation. Teams with stadium issues in their home markets are being targeted. The Rams qualify; they'll probably be free to vacate their Edward Jones Dome lease after the 2014 season.

    So naturally the Rams and owner Stan Kroenke are going to get a call from LA.

    It would be more surprising if they didn't get a call from LA.

    But just because someone expresses interest in your football team, it doesn't mean the team is moving. There's a long way to go in this game. As it is, the Rams are committed to playing four more seasons of football at The Ed. A lot can be done between now and then.

    And if billionaire Philip Anschutz — the billionaire behind the LA project — wants a team, the Rams may be the wrong fit. He's apparently looking to purchase a team as part of moving it to LA.

    Why would Kroenke want to sell the Rams to Anschutz? Kroenke helped bring the Rams to St. Louis in 1995 by stepping forward to become Georgia Frontiere's ownership partner and buying 40 percent of the team.

    Kroenke patiently hung on to that 40 percent share for 15 years, until he finally had the chance to buy full control of the Rams. But before becoming the owner, Kroenke had to work out a complicated arrangement with the NFL to get around the league's rules prohibiting cross ownership.

    Kroenke has owned the Rams for less than a year. Buying his way into the NFL inner circle of owners was obviously an important quest for Kroenke. So after going through 15 years of waiting to make it happen, why would Kroenke want to give up his seat in the owners' circle?

    This makes no sense. And Kroenke is a buyer and a collector, not a seller. Just look at all of the sports properties he's purchased or developed: the NFL Rams, the NBA Denver Nuggets, the NHL Colorado Avalanche, the Pepsi Center in Denver, the MLS Colorado Rapids, a soccer stadium in Colorado, a pro lacrosse team in Colorado, and the Arsenal soccer club in the English Premier League.

    Sure, Kroenke could try to move the team without selling it. But in my conversations with Kroenke, he has consistently and repeatedly stated...
    -06-12-2011, 11:30 AM
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