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  • Pace on the Open Market

    One of the themes that people keep coming back to on Pace is that he should take less to remain a ram, to make the same kind of sacrifices that others have made for the benefit of the squad.

    Putting aside the issue of how short the careers of these guys are and the beating they take, i want to make a different point. Who says pace isnt prepared to take less, in fact considerably less, than he would get on the open market.\

    From balzers comments, the issue appears to be mainly the structure of Walter Jones contract and how the front end money affects our cap. I believe that Pace is worth far more than what jones got, because i believe that jones was worth more than what jones got (ie jones took less to stay in seattle than he would have gotten in the open market)

    Have you guys seen the money that above average players are getting? Does anyone doubt that if Pace were an unrestricted free agent with no compensation required he wouldnt get $20 mill or more up front from someone? Do you really believe that champ bailey, who got $17 million up front is better than Pace (corners age faster than tackles). What about the money robert gallery got and he hadnt played a down in the nfl.

    Bottom line. Pace's negotiating position Post Poston appears to me to be that he WILL take less than pure open market. We have cap problems due to warner, turley and other decisions we have made and i dont think that the best player on our team, which is pace, should be expected to suffer for that.

    If we trade him, wait until you see what he signs for with another team and then you can see how much less we offered him than his actual value.

    There is just no evidence at this point to suggest that pace is demanding full market value. Why should he get less than walter jones just because of our situation. We need to find a way to make it work.

    Sign the Big Man.

    general counsel

  • #2
    Re: Pace on the Open Market

    Very good point GC, the only problem is that cap and that I dont believe without the cut or restructuring of contracts that we can afford the contract in the next 2-3 years

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    • AvengerRam_old
      The Way I See It, Nobody Is To Blame For Pace Standoff
      by AvengerRam_old
      Who's wrong here?

      Orlando Pace wants a long-term deal, and believes that he should get the "market rate." He was not offered as much as Walter Jones (though it was close) received from Seattle, so he believes that the Rams have underbid. While the numbers make it hard to accept, there is a certain logic there. After all, Pace is at least Jones' equal.

      The Rams want to keep Pace, but need to make a good economic decision. The deal that Jones received is structured in such a way thati, if offered to Pace, would hardly even result in a cap savings under the franchise tender. They feel they have made a fair offer and that their spending should not be entirely dictated by Seattle's decision to perhaps overspend. Again, this is logical. If they are going to let him go, they want the franchise player rate - two number ones. That is also logical.

      Houston wants Pace and apparently is willing to give him an acceptable contract. But they don't want to give up two number 1 picks to get him. That makes sense, as few players are worth two #1s, and I don't think anyone has ever paid such a price for an O lineman. I presume they are willint to offer one first round pick and something else. The question is, what have they offered? Have they even made an offer?

      I still want Pace to sign long term, but I'm starting to accept that this won't happen. I also think Pace may be halfway out the door, and that makes him a dangerous player to keep. I think the Rams need to get a first round pick, one of the Texans' starting OTs, and maybe another pick (a 3rd round pick, perhaps) to make the deal.

      Stay tuned.
      -03-15-2005, 06:36 AM
    • AvengerRam_old
      A Pace Solution (This is so crazy it just might work)
      by AvengerRam_old
      Here's an idea of how to resolve the Orlando Pace situation. Its a bit "out there," but who knows, maybe its not too far-fetched...

      Step 1: Offer Pace a lucrative, but reasonable, long-term deal before the deadline for franchising players. Hopefully, he'll accept. If not, go to Step 2.

      Step 2: Franchise Pace.

      Step 3: Assuming that the Seahawks franchise Walter Jones, determine whether he would accept the contract offered to Pace. If so, trade the Rams 2005 and 2006 first round choices for Jones, and sign him long-term.

      Step 4: Trade Pace to a weaker team for their 2005 and 2006 first round draft choices.

      End Result: Rams would still have first round picks in 2005 and 2006, but presumably would have picks earlier in the draft. They would also have Walter Jones, who is about as good as Pace, signed long-term.

      Now that, would be a great solution.

      [NOTE: If no team would give the Rams their next two first rounders for Pace, the Rams would still have Pace and Jones as their tackles, with Pace playing for the franchise tender again.]
      -02-11-2005, 08:50 AM
    • Guest's Avatar
      Simple question on Pace
      by Guest
      This topic IS worthy of beating what is hopefully not a dead horse.

      We are an 8-8 team that won a playoff game that had MAJOR problems on our offense line last year. Our best defensive player may or may not be incarcerated by the time we start the season. Cap or no cap, exactly HOW is trading away our best offensive lineman, and one of the best in the league, a guy who even if he didnt have his best season got beat only a handful of times all year and NEVER requires double team help on the qbs blind side, going to help our chances of improving the team in 2005 and beyond. We are not a rebuilding team.

      Furthermore, we still dont have a RIGHT tackle, let alone anyone remotely competent to replace pace. IF we get another left tackle, as avenger says, that is one thing, but the odds of getting a guy even in the same ballpark as pace for 2005 are very, very limited in my view.

      Guys its about performance, even if he isnt willing to discount to market to stay with the team, even if he is selfish, even if he is a distraction, how exactly do you figure that we are better off without him.

      If we spend the money we save on defense, how are we going to protect the qb.

      How much do you think we are actually going to save under the cap. Pace costs 8.2 under the tender. What do you think its going to cost to replace him. Until you replace him, you dont know what the net savings are, and given what left tackles go for these days, i dont think we are going to save anywhere near what some people think we are going to save, and we will in all liklihood be overpaying for inferior talent.

      Very, very sensitive subject for me, i think when people talk about the Big Three that won us the sb title and led to the great run this team has had, Pace is so often overlooked as to the critical nature of his contribution.

      ramming speed to all

      general counsel
      -03-13-2005, 07:47 PM
    • Guest's Avatar
      Its time for RamTimeís annual *****ing about Pace
      by Guest
      Yep itís that time of year again when we collectively wonder if Pace is team player or not. It looks as if this year will tell a lot. Since he ďfiredĒ his agent and Walter Jones has signed there really is no reason for Opie to hold the Rams hostage and should sign a deal before free agency. We shall see but donít hold your breath because I still maintain the heís lazy and hates camp enough that he would trade not having to participate in spring training for holding his team hostage. Itís time people start calling this like it looks and stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.

      Left tackle for sale, abada abada abada Left tackle for sale.... Step right up and feast your eyes on this massive specimen. That's right for 8 million dollars he can be yours for a whole year ahm minus the off season and uhm minus training camp, and uhm minus most of the pre season... abada abada abada Left Tackle for sale....
      -02-25-2005, 02:07 AM
    • Guest's Avatar
      Why should he take less than walter jones?
      by Guest
      The only thing that counts in nfl contracts is guaranteed money. We all know that, so lets not get dazzled by the overall contract offer. According to the post dispatch today, the rams offer to pace is "several million less" in guaranteed money then walter jones took.

      Can someone please explain to me why pace should take less than walter jones? Why is pace greedy under these circumstances. Seattle has the same cap issues as we have. The circumstances are virtually identical. Same team entire career, same length of service, same health, same value to their team (we actually have more of a vertical passing offense so if anything pace is more valuable to us) and according to nearly every nfl expert you read, the two guys are about as even in terms of ability and performance as possible.

      I believe it is very clear that walter jones took less than his free market value to stay with seattle. He got a lot of money but less than he would have if he had been a pure free agent with no compensation required. Expecting Pace to take less than what is already a discount to market is just unreasonable.

      It is incumbent on the rams to find a way to offer the same deal that walter jones got. I have said all along and stand by my guns on this. If pace wants a penny more than jones got, someone can criticize his demands. If the rams arent willing to pay what jones took (ie a discounted price for a superstar who took less to stay home) than i blame the rams.

      Sign the Big Man

      general counsel
      -03-15-2005, 01:53 AM
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