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If you're a supporter of analytics, then Football Outsiders says Goff's your guy

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  • #16
    Originally posted by PARamfan View Post
    Yeah remember when Peyton Manning went #1 there were some that thought the # 2 guy could be better. Anyone remember Ryan Leaf's great NFL career?
    Leaf had great numbers at WSU, and all the physical tools. The problem was, he had a lousy attitude, was emotionally unstable, and had no mental toughness. Unfortunately, analytics don't account for these factors.

    I have no problem using analytics, but only as one of many tools to evaluate a prospect.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by r8rh8rmike View Post

      Leaf had great numbers at WSU, and all the physical tools. The problem was, he had a lousy attitude, was emotionally unstable, and had no mental toughness. Unfortunately, analytics don't account for these factors.

      I have no problem using analytics, but only as one of many tools to evaluate a prospect.


      I can't speak about Goff on that front but Wentz is about as well grounded and hard working as you're going to find. He also brings the leadership factor and winning mentality forged from being at the head of a dynasty. And this is a dynasty built upon winning to earn home field playoff games and winning through a true tournament....where you see the level of opposition get better at each step. Far more equal to the NFL in that aspect as opposed to the joke that is the FBS system of crowning a somewhat mythical champion.
      "You people point your 'f'in' finger and say theres the bad guy....what that make you....good?" Tony Montana

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Fargo Ram Fan View Post



        I can't speak about Goff on that front but Wentz is about as well grounded and hard working as you're going to find. He also brings the leadership factor and winning mentality forged from being at the head of a dynasty. And this is a dynasty built upon winning to earn home field playoff games and winning through a true tournament....where you see the level of opposition get better at each step. Far more equal to the NFL in that aspect as opposed to the joke that is the FBS system of crowning a somewhat mythical champion.
        Of course, last year, Wentz missed the early rounds of the playoffs and only returned for the final game, in which he threw for less than 200 yards, 1 TD and 2 Ints.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Fargo Ram Fan View Post
          I can't speak about Goff on that front but Wentz is about as well grounded and hard working as you're going to find. He also brings the leadership factor and winning mentality forged from being at the head of a dynasty. And this is a dynasty built upon winning to earn home field playoff games and winning through a true tournament....where you see the level of opposition get better at each step. Far more equal to the NFL in that aspect as opposed to the joke that is the FBS system of crowning a somewhat mythical champion.
          My point was more about analytics, not Wentz, I just hope the Rams do their due diligence in evaluating both Goff and Wentz with regard to mental aspects and personality.

          As far as Wentz, I've heard nothing but great things about him as a person, a leader, a teammate, a tireless driven worker, and a player that makes those around him better.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by AvengerRam View Post

            Of course, last year, Wentz missed the early rounds of the playoffs and only returned for the final game, in which he threw for less than 200 yards, 1 TD and 2 Ints.
            Your point...or shall I say...agenda?? I digress......

            But (of course) he was instrumental in the playoff run, as he was mentoring the freshman QB every step of the way. He was involved in all the prep and meetings for every game. He was on the sideline, helping the kid during the games and the result was a national championship....just their 5th straight. Wentz has been on hand for 4 of them. His numbers in the game didn't blow anyone away. That was often the case. It's not a pass heavy offense. I see you conveniently failed to acknowledge his 79 yards and 2 TDs rushing and the fact that he was named outstanding player of the game, for a second straight year. Shocking. Yes, he was a bit rusty after missing 2 months of game action. To be expected. Last time I checked, the result of the game is what matters most. A QB's job is to lead his team to victories and (hopefully) championships...not rack up personal stats. NDSU plays team ball. No gaudy individual numbers...EVER. Results on file.
            "You people point your 'f'in' finger and say theres the bad guy....what that make you....good?" Tony Montana

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            • #21
              Agenda? Okay... whatever. I've repeatedly said that its a close call.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Fargo Ram Fan View Post
                Your point...or shall I say...agenda?? I digress......
                Does someone with a NDSU avatar really have the footing to accuse someone else of an agenda in a debate about these two QBs? I wonder... ;)


                Originally posted by Fargo Ram Fan View Post
                But (of course) he was instrumental in the playoff run, as he was mentoring the freshman QB every step of the way. He was involved in all the prep and meetings for every game. He was on the sideline, helping the kid during the games and the result was a national championship....just their 5th straight. Wentz has been on hand for 4 of them. His numbers in the game didn't blow anyone away. That was often the case. It's not a pass heavy offense. I see you conveniently failed to acknowledge his 79 yards and 2 TDs rushing and the fact that he was named outstanding player of the game, for a second straight year. Shocking. Yes, he was a bit rusty after missing 2 months of game action. To be expected. Last time I checked, the result of the game is what matters most. A QB's job is to lead his team to victories and (hopefully) championships...not rack up personal stats. NDSU plays team ball. No gaudy individual numbers...EVER. Results on file.
                So just to be clear, this was a championship-caliber team before Wentz took over as starting QB, it was a championship-caliber team while Wentz was its starting QB, and it was a championship-caliber team when a freshman replaced Wentz as the starting QB.

                I'm not trying to sound like I'm down on the guy, because I'm not and would be satisified with him in horns, but this doesn't sound like a compelling argument about Wentz's talent if the team was great before and after him. How can you really measure the impact he had on them? And while you've made a fair argument about not disrupting a good thing in terms of Wentz not supplanting Jensen, it's also a hard pill to swallow that this franchise caliber number one overall pick Wentz was stuck behind undrafted and now playing in Canada Jensen.

                All indications are that Wentz has both the physical skills and the intangibles to be an NFL success, which is the main reason I'm fine if he ends up being the Rams pick. But something just isn't clicking in my mind about Wentz, and maybe it's all for nothing, but these are the kinds of questions I'm still stuck on.

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                • r8rh8rmike
                  Rams expect No. 1 pick Jared Goff will defy Air Raid QBs' shaky NFL history
                  by r8rh8rmike
                  Rams expect No. 1 pick Jared Goff will defy Air Raid QBs' shaky NFL history
                  April 30, 2016


                  Despite the Air Raid approach used by Cal, Jared Goff was responsible for checking off at the line, changing protections and using his judgment in other ways some quarterbacks in similar systems don't. RON JENKINS , THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

                  By RYAN KARTJE / STAFF WRITER

                  Over the course of a three-year career at Cal, in which he shattered school records with video-game stats, carried an offense otherwise devoid of talent through a football renaissance, and rocketed to the top of the NFL draft, Jared Goff took exactly one snap under center.

                  It was a third-down pass, last season against Washington. It fell incomplete.

                  Perhaps, in the grand scheme of what made Goff worthy of the draft’s No. 1 pick, this seems like an extraordinarily minor detail. Coaches rave about how he “checks all the boxes,” and in terms of natural tools, it’s hard to dispute their claims. His accuracy, especially on throws outside the hashmarks, looks effortless. With preternatural instincts, his calm navigation of the pocket is otherwise unheard of from prospects his age. His poise and intangibles, forged through two difficult losing seasons in Berkeley, seem to foreshadow a franchise quarterback-in-the-making.

                  “He has a skill set that is special,” Rams coach Jeff Fisher said. “He sees things, has a quick release, understands the QB position and he gets rid of the football. When you look at his body at work, it’s impressive.”

                  But about that one snap ...

                  Spread concepts, such as those in Goff’s collegiate offense, are hardly a new trend in college football. Over the past five years, the number of snaps collegiate quarterbacks have taken under center has plummeted by more than 40 percent. And at Cal, where Coach Sonny Dykes has installed his version of the “Air Raid” offense, quarterbacks operate pretty much exclusively out of a no-huddle, up-tempo, four-wideout, shotgun look that relies heavily on the pass to spread out defenses.

                  Pioneered by longtime Kentucky coach Hal Mumme and current Washington State coach Mike Leach, the Air Raid is known to produce high-scoring games and head-turning stats in order to disguise other inefficiencies, and that was certainly true at Cal during Goff’s tenure. Last season, Goff threw for 300-plus yards in 10 of Cal’s 13 games and three or more touchdowns in eight, in spite of a patchwork offensive line and serious lack of weapons.

                  What the Air Raid isn’t known for is producing viable NFL quarterbacks.

                  Among the reasons to question the Rams’ move to wager the future on Goff, this is perhaps the most alarming. Since 1999, when another Air Raid product, Kentucky’s Tim Couch, went No. 1 overall to the Browns, only two true Air Raid quarterbacks were selected in the first round, before this draft. Both – Johnny Manziel and...
                  -05-05-2016, 02:00 PM
                • r8rh8rmike
                  North Dakota State's Carson Wentz has all the tools, great upside for the Rams
                  by r8rh8rmike
                  North Dakota State's Carson Wentz has all the tools, great upside for the Rams

                  April 16, 2016
                  Updated April 17, 2016 10:40 a.m.


                  North Dakota State quarterback Carson Wentz has a great arm, ideal physical skills and a locker-room presence, experts say.BRUCE CRUMMY, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


                  By RYAN KARTJE / STAFF WRITER

                  As any conversation about this 6-foot-5, 235-pound North Dakotan with a howitzer arm, barrel frame and the undeniable look of a franchise quarterback seems to begin these days, let us first address the Bison in the room.

                  Carson Wentz spent the past five years playing college football in Fargo, N.D. After starting just one season at Bismarck Century High, a late growth spurt left his recruiting profile so low that the popular online scouting services didn’t bother to make a page for him. At North Dakota State, an FCS powerhouse, Wentz didn’t start until his redshirt junior season, and he threw just 612 passes over his entire career – only 28 of which came against FBS opponent. All of these things are true.

                  Of course, there’s the 28-3 record and the two FCS championships in two seasons and the glowing off-the-field profile there for your consideration. But there’s no avoiding the reality of the situation. Not since 1974 has an NFL team used the top pick on a player below college football’s highest level.

                  As the Rams wonder whether Wentz or Cal’s Jared Goff would be best to carry a rebranded franchise on their shoulders, this lack of experience against top competition is the specter that hangs over the draft’s most intriguing quarterback prospect.

                  “I know a lot of people have that question,” Wentz said at the NFL Scouting Combine in February. “I know what I’m capable of.”

                  Before deciding for yourself, consider one of those 28 throws against an FBS defense. It’s 2014, Wentz’s first start, and the Bison have just crossed midfield on the road against Iowa State. Wentz drops back from under center, fakes a handoff and steps up into a clean pocket. There are some questions about his pocket presence, but at this moment, he is cool in the face of chaos. On a late read, he launches a bomb 40 yards in the air to wideout Zach Vraa, tucking it cleanly between a charging help safety and a cornerback in man coverage.

                  The throw is a dazzling reminder of why Wentz has risen this far, from small-school nobody to lofty Joe Flacco and Ben Roethlisberger comparisons. “He’s got some seriously great arm talent,” said Randy Hedberg, North Dakota State’s quarterbacks coach.

                  No scout will dispute that. Wentz has a cannon. Next year, his arm might immediately rank among the league’s dozen best.

                  His tools, from the mammoth frame to his 10-inch hands to the 4.77 40 time, suggest that a potential great quarterback can be molded...
                  -04-18-2016, 12:55 PM
                • r8rh8rmike
                  Farmer: North Dakota State's Carson Wentz Is A 'No-Brainer' Choice For The Rams
                  by r8rh8rmike
                  North Dakota State's Carson Wentz is a 'no-brainer' choice for the L.A. Rams






                  Sam Farmer - Contact Reporter

                  Football is a game of disguise and misdirection, so fittingly the Rams aren't disclosing which quarterback they'll select with the No. 1 pick in this month's draft, Cal's Jared Goff or North Dakota State's Carson Wentz.

                  This much is known: They'll take a quarterback, not surprising considering the hefty price tag required to make the unprecedented move from No. 15 to No. 1.

                  The Rams had private workouts with both players and it's highly improbable the team hasn't zeroed in on one. As General Manager Les Snead said Thursday in a news conference formally announcing the trade with the Tennessee Titans, "the hay is in the barn" in terms of scouting the quarterbacks. An interesting wrinkle is that both players are represented by agent Bruce Tollner, son of former USC football coach Ted Tollner.

                  While the Rams have praised both players and caution against assuming that either is out of the running, some outside experts see the choice as clear: It's Wentz who should wind up in L.A.



                  Nineteen years ago, the newly minted St. Louis Rams made a stunning move, trading up five spots -- and leapfrogging the Oakland Raiders -- to grab the No. 1 pick in the draft and select tackle Orlando Pace, a future Hall of Famer.

                  The Los Angeles Rams can only hope things go as well this time.

                  Nineteen years ago, the newly minted St. Louis Rams made a stunning move, trading up five spots -- and leapfrogging the Oakland Raiders -- to grab the No. 1 pick in the draft and select tackle Orlando Pace, a future Hall of Famer.

                  The Los Angeles Rams can only hope things go as well this time.

                  "I really like Jared Goff, but he doesn't have the upside that this kid [Wentz] has," said Mike Mayock, NFL Network draft analyst. "So in my mind, it has to be Wentz — it's not even a question — and I think it's the intangibles that sold [Rams Coach] Jeff Fisher and Les Snead, on top of the physical stuff."



                  Mayock said he was impressed when studying video of Goff after the season and initially thought he was the best quarterback prospect in the class. He changed his mind, though, after watching tape of Wentz.
                  "At that point, I had never heard of Carson Wentz," Mayock said. "He was just a name on a quarterback list. I put in his tape against Northern Iowa and when I got done with it I was like, 'Wow, I hope the next one is just as good, because this was kind of special.' And the next one was just as good if not better, as was the next one."

                  But there wasn't a large body of work from Wentz's 2015 season because he sat out eight games because of a broken wrist. He shined at the Senior Bowl,...
                  -04-15-2016, 11:32 AM
                • r8rh8rmike
                  Cal QB Jared Goff has skills, NFL-ready talent to warrant being Rams' No. 1 pick
                  by r8rh8rmike
                  Cal QB Jared Goff has skills, NFL-ready talent to warrant being Rams' No. 1 pick

                  April 16, 2016


                  Updated April 17, 2016 10:43 a.m.


                  1 of 1
                  California quarterback Jared Goff looks for an open receiver against Air Force during the first half of the Armed Forces Bowl on Dec. 29. Goff's pocket presence is considered one of his strengths. RON JENKINS, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS



                  As far as college quarterbacks go, Jared Goff is not among the most decorated.

                  He racked up gaudy numbers, but did so in an Air Raid-styled spread offense. He was never in serious discussion for any major national awards and had to share his All-Pac-12 first-team nod this past season. He finished with a career record of 14-23.

                  None of that, however, should prevent the Rams from drafting him No. 1 overall over North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz at the end of this month.

                  “I went into every game thinking I’m the best player on the field,” Goff said last summer. “Because I think you have to.”

                  He was reflecting on his 2013 debut at Cal, when he became the first true freshman quarterback in program history to start a season opener. That first campaign in Berkeley was miserable, with the Golden Bears winning just a single game under new coach Sonny Dykes.

                  But to those who would knock Goff for not being a “winner,” consider this: The 21-year-old is already mentally prepared for the hardships of an NFL transition. He is unlikely to see his confidence shaken by even the worst losses, unlikely to be fazed by the pressure of being anointed the savior of Los Angeles pro football.

                  He also checks off several other boxes, having improved his passer rating by double digits in every season. CBS Sports’ Dane Brugler and NBC Sports’ Josh Norris both rank the Bay Area product as the more attractive prospect, as does Sports Illustrated’s Chris Burke. Bleacher Report’s Matt Miller said in a recent radio appearance that he would take Goff over Wentz “without a doubt.”

                  Even NFL Network’s Mike Mayock, who prefers Wentz for his tools and upside, has called Goff the “most ready-to-play quarterback in this draft.”

                  “You just don’t see very often college quarterbacks who have his ability both mentally and physically,” Brugler said. “His ability to throw guys open, that passing anticipating. You saw that a little bit with Jameis Winston, but he brings something different to the table – something that projects very well to the NFL level.”

                  Of course, it’s easy enough to find those on the other side of the aisle, too. Wentz is still the favorite to go No. 1 on a litany of mock drafts, including one from Cris Collinsworth that predicted the Rams’ blockbuster trade a month before it was finalized.

                  The case for Wentz is simple enough to understand. The Bismarck, N.D., native stands at 6-foot-5 and 235...
                  -04-18-2016, 12:21 PM
                • Nick
                  Goff Impressing Coaches with Work Ethic, Showing Early Progress
                  by Nick
                  Goff Impressing Coaches with Work Ethic, Showing Early Progress
                  Posted May 25, 2016
                  Myles Simmons
                  Rams Insider

                  With the Rams beginning OTAs next week, No. 1 overall pick Jared Goff will be on the field squaring off against a defense for the first time in practice. Because players are not in pads, the organized team activities are essentially a period of continued learning. And the coaches who work closely with Los Angeles’ newest quarterback — offensive coordinator Rob Boras and quarterbacks coach Chris Weinke — are looking forward to seeing Goff progress on the field.

                  When the organization made the decision to trade for the first pick, it was clear there was a general consensus one quarterback appeared a cut above the rest. According to Weinke, Goff’s film was simply outstanding.

                  “The guy is just a natural passer of the football. You can tell he’s a natural athlete,” the QB coach said. “He was probably the smoothest guy that I’ve evaluated in a long time, as it relates to pocket awareness and pocket presence.

                  “Time after time, you’ve seen him make big plays,” Weinke continued. “And the guy made some ‘wow’ throws that not a lot of college guys have made — or that I’ve ever seen on film. You really put all those variables together, and he was a guy who kind of rose to the top and we felt like would be a good fit here in Los Angeles.”

                  But it wasn’t just about the throws. The fact that Goff helped bring Cal from an 11-loss team his freshman year to winning the program’s first bowl game since 2008 speaks volumes about his leadership ability.

                  “Collectively, you look at his body of work and what he did as a young kid going into Cal … not only physically, but mentally what he was able to accomplish, and truly be the leader of that football team,” Weinke said, adding to “go from 1-11 to going to a bowl game and winning is important, as it relates to the quarterback position and leadership ability.”

                  According to Boras, Goff has shown those qualities even in the short time he’s been a Ram.

                  “Watching him with the other rookies and just the leadership, and getting those guys out involved — it’s all the things that you’d hope for, and you heard,” Boras said. “But now to see it in person, it’s truly exciting.”

                  Goff’s strong work ethic has been well documented, but witnessing it in person has nevertheless been noteworthy for Boras and Weinke.

                  “The thing that’s really impressed me with Jared has just been his commitment to the classroom and his commitment to learn,” Boras said. “He’s been in there early for every meeting — I don’t mean five-minutes early. The meeting is supposed to start at 8:30, he’s trying to roll in and he’s always working.”

                  “The good thing about Jared is that he’s a cerebral kid,” Weinke said. “He’s very smart. He can absorb the information. In our research and our due diligence on...
                  -05-27-2016, 02:54 PM
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