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  • #31
    Originally posted by RockinRam View Post

    But...

    Gurley has basically the same OL personnel as last year except Garrett Reynolds.

    Same OC.

    Same offensive system.
    Woah woah woah!
    That's wrong

    Frank Cignetti was the OC for the start of Gurley's career
    Week 3 Steelers 9 yards L
    Week 4 Cardinals 146 yards W
    Week 5 Packers 159 yards L
    Week 7 Browns 128 yards W
    Week 8 ***** 133 yards W
    Week 9 Vikings 89 yards L
    Week 10 Bears 45 yards L*
    Week 11 Ravens 66 yards L**
    Week 12 Bengals 19 yards L*
    Week 13 Cardinals 41 yards L*

    They then changed coordinator, getting rid of Cignetti and bumping Boras up to OC

    Week 14 Lions 140 Yards W
    Week 15 Bucs 48 yards W
    Week 16 Seahawks 83 yards W
    Week 17 ***** DNP (injury)

    Week 1 ***** 47 yards L
    Week 2 Seahawks 51 yards W
    Week 3 Bucs 85 yards W
    Week 4 Cardinals 33 yards W
    Week 5 Bills 72 yards L
    Week 6 Lions 58 yards L
    Week 7 Giants 57 yards L
    Week 9 Panthers 48 yards L
    Week 10 Jets 64 yards W
    Week 11 Dolphins 76 yards L ***
    Week 12 Saints 50 yards L *
    Week 13 Patriots 38 L *

    * means blowout loss
    ** is when Keenum took over from Foles
    *** is when Goff took over from Keenum

    I have marked the blowout losses as a team would generally move away from running the ball in those games. Now, you could argue that a poor run game could be a reason for being behind and leading to those blowouts but for the sake of this review I have assumed that running backs would (should) generally be more successful in close games or wins.

    In competitive games, as in not blowout losses, the only games in which Gurley didn't have over 85 rushing yards under Cignetti were the Steelers game where he didn't start and got 6 carries, and the awful Ravens game which was Case Keenum's first start (the concussion game). Towards the end of Cignetti's run, the Rams suffered Nick Foles' regressive play and through a fair few blowout losses where Gurley didn't get the carries. In the Bengals game, for example, Gurley got a total of 9 carries as the Bengals pulled way ahead of the Rams

    Under Boras, Gurley has had 85 yards or more in only two games, even though Boras has been OC for longer than Cignetti (15 games to 10) and even though Boras has less blowout games than Cignetti (2 to 3). Gurley has only one 100 yard game under Boras, while having 4 under Cignetti. Gurley averaged 83.5 yards per game under Cignetti, and only 63.3 under Boras, and that's even when including the 9 yard Steelers game which Gurley barely played in.

    You also have to factor that Boras had a whole offseason to tinker and move away from Cignetti's. This isn't the same offense that Gurley had to start the career. We don't know the extent of the changes as don't have the playbook, but even the casual viewer can see this is a different offense. It would appear that the blocking scheme on the OL is different, because as you say, the personnel hasn't really changed. But I would say that they seem to be running directly up the gut more, and using Harkey less as a lead blocker.

    I would say that the OC change has actually been a HUGE factor in the decline of Gurley's game

    We saw in Buffalo what a change of OC could do positively to LeSean McCoy and the run game in general. But Fisher is refusing to even consider a change of OC. This is probably to reduce the effect on Goff, which is fair enough, but i would say its hindering Gurley a lot. But there HAS to be a change of OC next year, even if Fisher returns.


    @EssexRam_

    Comment


    • #32
      I think Gurley is one of the better RB's in the NFL and has the potential to become an elite back. But on this season's performance, there is no way I can place him in the elite bracket. Quite simply, Gurley hasn't made enough plays for the Rams offense this season. Elite backs break tackles and make people miss. We haven't seen Gurley do any that this season, unlike last season. In my opinion, the main reason why Gurley has struggled so much this season stems from a number of variables coming all together at the same time creating the perfect storm that may explain the reason for his poor performance.
      Firstly, there has been a big regression in the play of the OL. Man on man, that Rams linemen are getting eaten alive at the LOS. Most notably on running plays to the inside which is a staple of a Fishers offense. The play calling is bland, predictable and lacks imagination and when you couple this with a very poor QB and all the second rate receivers on the Rams roster. It leaves Gurley and the OL with a massive problem to deal with.! The whole defense is crowding the box and coming full speed downhill to tackle him.
      Because of all these factors, I think losing a full stone in weight in the offseason has really worked against Todd this season. So I hope he works on bulking himself up over the coming years.!

      Comment


      • #33
        Labeling him as an elite back on the heels of one very good season would be totally preposterous. We thought Zac Stacy was a pleasant surprise after a wonderful rookie season, and where is Zac Stacy now? I am not comparing Gurley with Stacy in terms of ability, but what I AM saying is that before we elevate Gurley to exalted status there must be a bigger body of work from which to judge.

        At the risk of copping out, I don't think there's a singular reason for his ineffectiveness. One cannot discount the importance of a viable passing game for a running back to be effective. And it goes without saying we don't have one. The offensive line has been a decidedly mixed bag in terms of run blocking. We have often played from behind- especially recently- which means not as many rushing attempts. And certainly there has been a questionable commitment to the running game- not exactly what we had in mind given our QB issues and Fisher's "power back and defense" emphasis. And I think R8rh8rmike's observation about Gurley not showing some of the same confidence and grit in 2016 has some validity.

        In short, I think we need to be reasonably concerned about Gurley, and hope that fixing the other issues will result in improved performance.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
          Labeling him as an elite back on the heels of one very good season would be totally preposterous.
          Well, that depends...

          His production is not elite. I agree that it would be preposterous to say otherwise.

          That said, I believe he has elite skills. I believe that, not only based upon what I saw last year, but also based upon the consensus of scouts and evaluators, who didn't even have the benefit of a Combine/Pro Day workout.

          Make no mistake, though... elite skills guarantee NOTHING. We've seen plenty of guys with elite skills who have not reached their potential due to injuries, a poor supporting cast, a lack of effort and drive, off-field issues, and many other factors.


          As an aside... this is a good discussion. I am happy to see a lot of opinions being put out there without unnecessary acrimony among posters. Its tough these days, given the state of the team, to refrain from getting frustrated and taking things out on fellow fans. Nice to see we can exchange opinions in a civil and constructive manner!

          Comment


          • #35
            Something else that Tomahawk's breakdown (good job on that) may indicate is that our offensive game plans and maybe the plays themselves are easy for other teams to dissect. We seem to start off OK but then it is like everyone has us figured out and the offense has no chance. That's OK if you are better physically than the other team but if they match up well AND know what's coming then there is not much chance of success.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by tomahawk247 View Post

              Woah woah woah!
              That's wrong

              Frank Cignetti was the OC for the start of Gurley's career
              Week 3 Steelers 9 yards L
              Week 4 Cardinals 146 yards W
              Week 5 Packers 159 yards L
              Week 7 Browns 128 yards W
              Week 8 ***** 133 yards W
              Week 9 Vikings 89 yards L
              Week 10 Bears 45 yards L*
              Week 11 Ravens 66 yards L**
              Week 12 Bengals 19 yards L*
              Week 13 Cardinals 41 yards L*

              They then changed coordinator, getting rid of Cignetti and bumping Boras up to OC

              Week 14 Lions 140 Yards W
              Week 15 Bucs 48 yards W
              Week 16 Seahawks 83 yards W
              Week 17 ***** DNP (injury)

              Week 1 ***** 47 yards L
              Week 2 Seahawks 51 yards W
              Week 3 Bucs 85 yards W
              Week 4 Cardinals 33 yards W
              Week 5 Bills 72 yards L
              Week 6 Lions 58 yards L
              Week 7 Giants 57 yards L
              Week 9 Panthers 48 yards L
              Week 10 Jets 64 yards W
              Week 11 Dolphins 76 yards L ***
              Week 12 Saints 50 yards L *
              Week 13 Patriots 38 L *

              * means blowout loss
              ** is when Keenum took over from Foles
              *** is when Goff took over from Keenum

              I have marked the blowout losses as a team would generally move away from running the ball in those games. Now, you could argue that a poor run game could be a reason for being behind and leading to those blowouts but for the sake of this review I have assumed that running backs would (should) generally be more successful in close games or wins.

              In competitive games, as in not blowout losses, the only games in which Gurley didn't have over 85 rushing yards under Cignetti were the Steelers game where he didn't start and got 6 carries, and the awful Ravens game which was Case Keenum's first start (the concussion game). Towards the end of Cignetti's run, the Rams suffered Nick Foles' regressive play and through a fair few blowout losses where Gurley didn't get the carries. In the Bengals game, for example, Gurley got a total of 9 carries as the Bengals pulled way ahead of the Rams

              Under Boras, Gurley has had 85 yards or more in only two games, even though Boras has been OC for longer than Cignetti (15 games to 10) and even though Boras has less blowout games than Cignetti (2 to 3). Gurley has only one 100 yard game under Boras, while having 4 under Cignetti. Gurley averaged 83.5 yards per game under Cignetti, and only 63.3 under Boras, and that's even when including the 9 yard Steelers game which Gurley barely played in.

              You also have to factor that Boras had a whole offseason to tinker and move away from Cignetti's. This isn't the same offense that Gurley had to start the career. We don't know the extent of the changes as don't have the playbook, but even the casual viewer can see this is a different offense. It would appear that the blocking scheme on the OL is different, because as you say, the personnel hasn't really changed. But I would say that they seem to be running directly up the gut more, and using Harkey less as a lead blocker.

              I would say that the OC change has actually been a HUGE factor in the decline of Gurley's game

              We saw in Buffalo what a change of OC could do positively to LeSean McCoy and the run game in general. But Fisher is refusing to even consider a change of OC. This is probably to reduce the effect on Goff, which is fair enough, but i would say its hindering Gurley a lot. But there HAS to be a change of OC next year, even if Fisher returns.

              You could also argue that Gurley started regressing in Week 9 of last year, when Cignetti was still our OC. While there are some plays that we utilize more now (i.e. a single back formation), the general premise of this offense is still the same. Boras has never been an OC; he doesn't even know enough or have enough experience to drastically change this offense.


              I agree that a change in OC would be a good move, but only if it's externally. Even then, he would still be under the Fisher umbrella. I believe the right choice is to fire the whole staff.

              Comment


              • #37
                I think that, when Todd Gurley became the starter, opposing defenses initially played the Rams "straight up," meaning that they did not focus their efforts entirely on stopping the run game. As Gurley started having success, and it became more and more apparent that the Rams' passing game was not a threat, defenses started loading the box. This started last year. This made it more and more difficult for the Gurley to find holes to run through.

                Hopefully, as Goff develops, the Rams will find balance and force defenses to account for run and the pass.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Tomahawk, great write up. Appreciate the work involved in that post. But here's maybe the issue that I've noticed with my own eyes, outside of the OL being terrible and Gurley being extremely frustrated:

                  Last season, on multiple big runs (some of those 40 + yarders) Gurley was used on the zone stretch. Basically that means its a stretch run (to the outside) and Gurley reads his keys from outside inwards, and when he see's a hole worthy, he basically makes one cut and heads up-field. We used the zone stretch pretty often last year, and it worked very well because Gurley had amazing vision and once he got a hole he would turn up field and hit his second gear quicker than anyone else. I've noticed we NEVER use the ZBS anymore. All I've seen this year is a toss or two which usually work for about 10 yards, and a bunch of runs up the middle for Gurley that have lead to nothing.

                  Also, and this may be the biggest factor, we've basically made Tavon Austin completely obsolete. Last year we used Tavon on jet sweeps and plenty of reverses, whether he actually got the ball or was simply a decoy. That was great because if he got the ball he always made a great play with it, and when he didn't he was such a threat that he would hold the backside LB long enough to where Gurley and the OL could ignore him and continue through the box.

                  Last year Tavon's stats rushing were:

                  52 attempts, 434 rushing yards, 8.3 average, 4 TD's.

                  This year:

                  19 attempts, 91 yards, 4.8 average, 0 TD's.

                  I think that's probably been one of the biggest reasons for our abysmal running performance. Defenders don't have to worry about our downfield passing game so they can key on Gurley. At least last year we ran plenty of jet sweeps, reverses, and even Tavon as the single back, and those plays were crucial to our success. Not only because it helped Gurley get some space, but because Tavon is electric with the ball in his hands and average 8.3 YPC which is absolutely ridiculous.

                  Seems like Boras has completely phased that out of the offense.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by sosa39rams View Post
                    Seems like Boras has completely phased that out of the offense.
                    Boras is completely inept. I believe Fisher doesn't want an autonomous, strong OC. He wants yes men below him. The problem for Fisher with that is that when it goes belly up like it has the failure is 100% on Fisher. There's nobody for him to throw under the bus. All roads end at him. So for me ultimately Gurley's lack of production is a direct reflection of Fisher's mismanagement.


                    :helmet:

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by mh-i View Post

                      Boras is completely inept. I believe Fisher doesn't want an autonomous, strong OC. He wants yes men below him. The problem for Fisher with that is that when it goes belly up like it has the failure is 100% on Fisher. There's nobody for him to throw under the bus. All roads end at him. So for me ultimately Gurley's lack of production is a direct reflection of Fisher's mismanagement.

                      I don't disagree in the least. Eddie George played for Fisher as well and in his 9 seasons in the league, George averaged under 4 YPC seven out of nine times. Yes, I know Eddie George was a power back and nothing like Gurley, but Fisher can claim he's a "tough D and running the ball" kind of coach, but I have yet to see the results.

                      In 4 years in Tennessee, LenDale White averaged under 4.0 YPC every year. The only player to break that streak was Chris Johnson, and only 3 years worth of the phenom that was.

                      All in all, even the things Fisher is supposed to excel in, he sucks at.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        He looks like a guy that's just not into it. Whether that be the system or playing at this level.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by RamFanEsq View Post

                          Well, that depends...

                          His production is not elite. I agree that it would be preposterous to say otherwise.

                          That said, I believe he has elite skills.
                          The poll called out "elite player at his position." That is off the mark IMO. But "elite skills" seems very appropriate.

                          Comment

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                          • MauiRam
                            Todd Gurley could be Los Angeles’ next big star 
                            by MauiRam
                            By Rich Hammond

                            OXNARD >> If, as the saying goes, stars are made, not born, what about those who are relocated?

                            Todd Gurley is poised to be the next big thing in Southern California sports. The Rams running back still might go unrecognized walking down local streets, particularly when his trademark shoulder-length dreadlocks are pulled back, but given his recent face time on national TV, that seems certain to change.

                            “Carl’s Jr.,” teammate Benny Cunningham said with a wry grin after a recent practice. “That’s his new nickname. You should call him that. He will like that.”

                            Gurley has received copious good-natured ribbing for his role as as a burger-pitcher. In the commercial, Gurley — who speaks only a few words — is greeted by an agent and selfie-taking admirers as he coolly strolls through an office while wearing a hat with a generic “L.A.’’ logo.

                            “Welcome to California, Todd Gurley,” shouts the agent, played by actor/comedian Jay Mohr.

                            And welcome, perhaps, to a void that needs to be filled, that of major Southern California sports icon.

                            Kobe Bryant has retired after an iconic 20-year career with the Lakers. Clayton Kershaw arguably is the best pitcher in baseball, but many viewers can’t even watch Dodger games. The Angels’ Mike Trout is highly marketable but seems reticent to display charisma in a public way. The top players for the Kings and Ducks are more likely to pitch products in Canada.

                            Chris Paul is a contender, but at best he’s a very good player on a good Clippers team, and that franchise still is attempting to dribble out of the Lakers’ shadow.

                            The throne has been vacated, and Gurley can fill it. He’s telegenic, intelligent, community-minded and is coming off a 2015 rookie season in which he rushed for the third-most yards in the NFL (1,106).

                            It also doesn’t hurt that Gurley is represented by Roc Nation Sports, the agency founded by music star Shawn “Jay-Z” Carter.

                            “The region is looking for someone to embrace,” said David Carter, Executive Director of USC’s Sports Business Institute, “and not only because football is back but because Kobe Bryant’s presence will be diminished. And as long as the Dodgers struggle to get their bearings on TV, their stars will not have as constant a light shone on them. All of this makes his timing ideal.”

                            There’s only one question: Is this market ready to accept Gurley as a hometown hero? As of now, three months before the start of the NFL season, Gurley remains an outsider, and something of a quiet one.

                            Bryant arrived as a teenager and grew up here. Shaquille O’Neal and Manny Ramirez were imported, but announced their arrivals with boisterous enthusiasm. Gurley? He’s been placed gently on Southern California’s porch like a FedEx package from St. Louis. The locals are just beginning to unwrap him.

                            It’s a...
                            -06-12-2016, 01:54 PM
                          • Nick
                            So, I guess that Gurley kid is pretty good...
                            by Nick
                            433 rushing yards on 68 attempts for a 6.36 average over the last three games, Rams 2-1 in that span.


                            It's still early, but the Rams may have found their response to the question posed earlier this year regarding the last time they hit a home run on an offensive draft pick.
                            -10-25-2015, 01:46 PM
                          • r8rh8rmike
                            Fassel On Gurley Struggling With Confidence
                            by r8rh8rmike
                            Here is what Fassel said when asked about Gurley's confidence level:...
                            -12-31-2016, 08:00 AM
                          • Nick
                            Where in the World is Todd Gurley?
                            by Nick
                            Forgive my weak attempt at a Carmen Sandiego reference, but I think the question needs to be asked again and again until we have an answer.

                            Through the regular season, Gurley averaged 18.2 rushes per game and four receptions per game. In the playoffs, he rushed the ball ten times a game on average and caught four passes in three contests.

                            This offense is built through Gurley. The strength of the running game is what makes play action so effective. Finding ways to get the ball in Gurley's hands should be priority number one for anyone making decisions about this offense, yet it seems like after his injury, and more specifically after the Dallas playoff win, Gurley just disappeared from the gameplan.

                            There are some people across the internet - I know because I've seen the responses in the Twitter feeds of those who cover the Rams - who are abandoning ship on Gurley. I think it's way too soon for that kind of overreaction. But it really does make you wonder, in the biggest game of his career, why Sean McVay didn't do more to make Gurley a focal point of the gameplan.

                            The Rams insist he's completely healthy, and Gurley does as well. I wouldn't be surprised, though, to find out in a couple of weeks that he had some nagging injury that needs cleaned up over the offseason. Still, it would be rather baffling if that's the case after so much insistence to the contrary.

                            It kind of makes me wonder if there's something else going on behind the scenes, some kind of personal issue that Gurley is going through and the Rams have been trying to help him by easing his workload or not putting too much on his plate. I have no evidence or anything to base this off of, aside from just the mere speculation that will occur when someone who normally is so heavily part of a gameplan gets left behind so strangely.

                            Either way, the Rams need to spend this offseason looking in the mirror and figuring out why, when all the chips were on the table, they kept their stud workhorse on the sidelines as much as they did. Maybe Gurley just needs an offseason away from football to get back to his normal self or to recover from whatever ails him. Let's hope that's the case, and we're not looking at the symptoms of a bigger problem here, either for Gurley or McVay....
                            -02-04-2019, 04:04 AM
                          • Nick
                            Gurley is a go!
                            by Nick
                            Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport 56m56 minutes ago
                            Todd Gurley will make his NFL debut today for Rams vs Steelers. Snap count? Depends on game flow. But he's ready, run & pass
                            -09-27-2015, 07:59 AM
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