No announcement yet.

"The Call"- Perspective Needed

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • "The Call"- Perspective Needed

    In what undoubtedly will take over as the most disputed (non) call since the infamous "Tuck rule" game, I figured I'd start a thread on yesterday's Pass Interference play which will hopefully minimize talk on every other thread while lending some perspective and fairness to the conversation.

    First, anyone with a shred of objectivity and two eyes realizes this was a missed call. Even those WITHOUT objectivity like Robey-Coleman himself acknowledges a flag was expected. This point is not debatable, in my eyes. Second, if we'd been on the receiving end of this call, this board would be blowing up with people (rightly) beside themselves. A full dose of "The refs are anti-Rams proclamations would be given. Gap, among others, would probably have a stroke. And third, we will unfortunately hear about this for awhile, as calls like this only fade when the next big story takes its place. Let's remember this if anyone feels the urge to knock the Saints or their fans. They have a right to be pissed.

    This, however, is all I will concede to the people who will harp on the fact that the Rams were somehow undeserving of their place in the Super Bowl. Nothing could be further from the truth, and I for one will not allow this nonsense to sully our season and our berth in SB 53. I point to four specific instances in which this call should not have mattered.

    1) On the previous Rams drive, Goff visibly had his face mask pulled as he was attempting to run the ball into the end zone. Replay clearly showed this, and Troy Aikman pointed it out. If called, the Rams would have had the ball 1st and goal at the 1 yard line. If they'd scored a TD, they'd have been up 24-20 and NO would've had to go the length of the field for a TD instead of a go-ahead FG. Though we can't assume the Rams would have definitely scored a TD there, chances are pretty good that with three tries from the 1 yard line they'd have done so, changing the complexion of the game.

    2) After the non PI call, Payton did a horrible job managing the clock- electing to pass (incomplete) and leaving the Rams with more time than they otherwise should have had on their subsequent possession if NO had run the ball. LA would have had to expend their timeouts and their last drive would have been much, much tougher.

    3) The Saints had an opportunity to stop the Rams defensively on their game-tying drive, rendering this entire conversation about the missed pass interference moot. They didn't do so and allowed a game-tying 48 yard FG.

    4) The Saints got the ball first and could have ended the game with a score or at worst kicked a FG, forcing the Rams to come down and do the same. They didn't do that either. They turned the ball over, setting up Zeurlein for his game-ending heroics.

    In sum, the disappointment and anger from Saints fans is justified. Yet any one of the above-listed circumstances would have produced a different outcome. The Rams capitalized on a break and their fans need not make any apologies.

  • #2
    Thank you, NJRF1, and I entirely agree with your perspective. I received a congratulatory email from a friend this morning, which included his proviso that the Rams received a "gift" pass to the SB. My response:
    "Appreciate the cheers, but utterly reject your characterization that they were "gifted" a pass.

    Yes, there was a bad no-call at the end there. But the inconsistent officiating is all over all these games, and the teams all suffer/benefit in every game. I can point you to a few no-calls on the Saints during that game that were significant and changed the vector of the game. Who knows if we even reach that scenario at the end if those calls are made. Who knows what would have unfolded if any of the calls/no-calls were made/not made. And let's not forget, even though we have instant replay, these games are played and officiated in real time by human beings. And who knows what it is about the play of the team that affects the perception of the officials in a way that is favorable to them.

    And when it was all over, they were tied, and played an OT that the Rams won.

    The Rams fought like dogs to win that game in an incredibly hostile environment. Their resiliency was tremendous. They're 15-3 this season. They're the best team in the NFC this season, and proved it.

    Sorry to go off. But I'm already sick of this "Saints were robbed" BS."

    And my response will likely keep getting longer, the longer I have to listen to this nonsense. We're all serious fans of this sport, and know how this works.


    • #3
      Originally posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post

      2) After the non PI call, Payton did a horrible job managing the clock- electing to pass (incomplete) and leaving the Rams with more time than they otherwise should have had on their subsequent possession if NO had run the ball. LA would have had to expend their timeouts and their last drive would have been much, much tougher.
      I think much of Payton's vitriol about the PI non-call stems from defensiveness over his clock management mistake.

      It is easier to blame officials than to take blame for his coaching mistake.


      • #4
        Bottom line, it was not a game ending call. Sure, it affected the game, but the Saints still had multiple chances to pull out a win, and they failed.


        • #5
          A few of the talking head have had perspective, but the vast majority want to harp on it as if the outcomes were foregone conclusions. That's what annoys me the most. Even if you don't want to believe me that a fix was in, you can agree with me that Lady Luck was on the Rams' side for that play.

          Aside from that nothing was a given, maybe probabilities suggested a likelihood but it didn't establish a certitude. NO could have fumbled at the 1 like the Browns. They could have been intercepted at the 1 like Seattle. They could have dropped the center snap like Romo. All this fuss over being jobbed is much ado about nothing as Shakes noted. Nothing is a given. Period. Quit the whining.

          They could have stopped the ensuing drive, they didn't. They got the coin toss and couldn't protect Brees. The Leg had to kick it low to get leverage and they couldn't block it. The Rams earned the win even Lady Luck had money on the game.


          • #6
            A discussion of the game and the non-call by the guys on ESPN:



            • #7
              Correction on your point 2. The non call was AFTER the incomplete pass to thomas, it was on 3rd and 10. They kicked the field goal right after the non call. payton probably mismanaged the clock on those last three plays, but more importantly, i dont think it was so much the play call as it was a HORRIFIC throw by brees to thomas on the slant when thomas was open. Payton is trying to win the game. He doesnt want to kick the field goal and give the ball back to the Rams who were moving very well in the fourth quarter. Brees simply missed the throw. If the pass is complete, its either a td or close to it. I watched the replay of the game last night and that was clear. If Goff missed that throw in that situation people would be screaming bloody murder about our young qb blowing it. Meanwhile, i dont hear one word of criticism of brees or any taking of responsibility by brees or payton. Thomas could probably have gone down low to make the catch, he missed it because he was trying to catch it in stride.

              I also think if they call the interference the game was not "over" The Rams may have let them score a td on the next play, giving us the ball back with a timeout and 1:40 left in the game. Hardly what i would call game over. It's the same argument as people saying that if montgomery doesnt fumble at the end of the green bay game we lose because they have rodgers. Maybe, but maybe not. We were still very much alive.

              Great post, the real key is the missed call on the goff facemask which was as obvious and important as the non interference call at the end. exact same 4 point impact.

              Ramming speed to all

              general counsel


              • #8
                I very much appreciate this thread, because these thoughts have been going through my head since the game ended and the immediate internet reaction from Twitter and various Facebook groups seemed to be that the Rams didnít deserve to win or were given the game on a silver platter.

                While itís indisputable IMO that the officials blew this call, and while calling this pass interference likely seals the game for New Orleans, there were other blown calls in this game as well. The no-call on the facemask to Goff was a glaring one. Replay shows his head is turned from the grab, and that would have given the Rams three new shots from the one yard line to punch it in. Calling that obvious penalty would have changed everything that took place after it. You can't bemoan the no-call in one instance but not another. There were missed calls all night, as there appear to be in every NFL game in today's league.

                And as you said, even after the refs blew this call, the Saints still (1) went up by three, (2) failed to stop the Rams from tying it with only 1:41 on the clock, (3) won the OT coin toss, (4) turned the ball over on their first drive, and (5) allowed the Rams to move into FG range where they won the game.The Rams benefited from a missed call, just as the Saints did earlier in the game. It sucks that the no-call was so late in the game that it would have had a direct effect on the result, but all penalties or no-calls are ďgame changingĒ by their very definition, and good teams have to find ways to overcome those things.

                Saints fans have every right to be upset about the missed call, but missed call or not, their team still took the lead and could have won the game had they made one of two stops or simply scored a TD in overtime. They didnít. The Rams battled back and did what they had to do. They deserve to be in the Super Bowl.
                Last edited by Nick; -01-21-2019, 09:15 AM.


                • #9
                  I admit I thought we lost when McVay didn't go for the TD on 4th n goal, after Goff was clearly facemasked. They're penalties that technically could be called on almost every play. Donald was blatantly held at least 10 times. I feel the NFL has already took to much of the game out of the refs hands on the field. Don't want missed calls? Put the refs in a booth and take 10 minutes scouring every play for a misdeed. While your at it, put GPS in the footballs so they can get rid of the chains. This is a game played and refed by men and men aren't perfect so get over it. My biggest gripe is the NFL allowing those BS "sticky" gloves that everyone wears now. Pretty soon we'll be cheering our team to get that red flag off the opponent.


                  • #10
                    I am not going to let this "debate" take away from my complete and utter joy I feel for my team going to the Super Bowl. Down 13-0......15 yards of offense in first qtr. Wheels coming off. Then, a ray of hope with a perfectly thrown ball to Shields from Hekker. Rams EARNED this win. Goff throwing while being thrown down.....twice but still gets ball off and completes improbable pass to move us into FG range. A freaking 57 yard fg that split uprights and banged into NET. Rams win a game that looked to be a slaughter in early going AND in the loudest venue possible. They say bits of the ceiling came down from the noise level. Rams win. Rams win. SB's do not grow on trees. You have to earn it. Rams did.


                    • #11
                      From 'The Rams WON this game' thread, by Dez. Post by me last night.

                      ...Fortunately, several serious NFL commentators have pointed out (and keep pointing it out) that although that call was a terrible error and clear "NO call" against our No. 23, the Rams - as a team - did indeed hang on till the end despite the early shaky start.

                      That one mistake by the refs cost N.O. dearly, true, but that 'ONE play' did not defeat those Who dat!?!, however painful for them.

                      The Rams battled to win. until the very end. The Rams WON this game. They deserved the end result, the Rams forged their own victory, not the refs.*

                      Goff played well in the 2nd half, mostly 4th Qtr. and O/T. Zuerlein made the GWFG. The L.A. Rams TEAM, not New Orleans, made the winning plays at the end.

                      *. Talk about the refs being under scrutiny and losing credibility for a while. On the other hand, I liked how Coach Payton handled the official's blunder that he called not only "disappointing" but a 'game changer'. Again, those type of errors are, have been going on for many decades. Yet the team affected has to keep fighting against it and overcome the [ref's] gaffe.

                      N.O. was not able to stop the Rams' plays in O/T, including the fact they won the toss. They lost that critical opportunity (2017 dťjŗ vu Vikings' final play at Minneapolis).
                      Last edited by RealRam; -01-21-2019, 02:32 PM. Reason: Content


                      • #12
                        Saints jared Goff facemask


                        • #13
                          Excellent thread and valid points concerning the missed calls, both on the pass interference and the facemask on Goff. I can simply add that as we move forward I trust the Rams coaching staff will utilize this as a way to motivate the team (if there's needed motivation for the Super Bowl) claiming that people don't think we're "deserving of this honor".

                          On another level I have never had much regard for Sean Payton since his acceptance of Bountygate by our old friend Gregg Williams. That dislike took an even stronger posture when I read that Payton exhorted fans to begin their screaming during the Rams huddle. Really, is this how you have to win the game? I realize that fans supporting their team is a part of football games, but having a coach encourage activity that disadvantages the other team is low-ball in my book. Players doing this is fine, but coaches are expected to be on a higher level. Witness Sean McVay since becoming a HC.

                          Maybe someone can clarify this for me, but wasn't there a rule some time back that if cheering interfered with a team being able to hear the QB snap count a penalty would be issued. I guess that rule was ended.

                          Go Rams!


                          • #14
                            There's chatter on radio how the commissioner has the power to order the game replayed and should. In this new PC unicorn wonder world, nothing would shock me.


                            • #15
                              Clearly, it was a horrendous call by refs. It was pass interference all the way. I think one of the referees might have called it a tipped ball or something along those lines. This is where all the mis- communication arose from. That non call has done nothing to take the shine off a huge, well deserved victory. The Saints were lucky to even be down in our redzone. Joyner should have broke up the desperation pass to Ginn anyway, obviously scared of picking up a pass interference penalty with all the overly fussy calls this season. No way am I letting that call spoil my celebrations. The noise in that stadium was borderline unfair to the road team, yet we still prevailed. How Jared Goff played so well under those circumstances was awe inspiring. The better team won the game, period.!!


                              Related Topics


                              • Guest's Avatar
                                The Curse Of The 9ers
                                by Guest
                                What will officials dream up Sunday night when the Rams take the field in San Francisco? Letís turn back to 1998. The first call occurred with the Colts leading 21-7. The ball was intercepted by Indianapolis defensive back Jeff Burris in his own end zone. He returned it to the 9ers' 32-yard line, which almost certainly would have led to a 24-7 lead and, given the way that Peyton Manning was carving up the 9ers' at the time, most likely an insurmountable 28-7 lead. Instead, the officials called Burris for "holding" and the 9ers were handed the ball back and ultimately a touchdown.

                                On the 9ers' next possession, Young again threw a pick, again it was overruled ruled by a defensive holding penalty, and again the 9ers got the ball back and scored. The result of the botched calls? A point swing of a minimum of 14 and as much as 28 points. The blown calls by the referees were so bad; the NFL had to come out with a statement in essence apologizing for the poor officiating.

                                The Colts farce allowed the 9ers to host the wildcard game Enter Green Bay, a team they hadnít beat in 5 tries. A Jerry Rice fumble was ruled down by the referees, and four plays later, a touchdown pass to Terrell Owens.

                                Enter New York; another playoff game which the 9ers had little chance of winning even with all the referee huddles that always end in gifting the 9ers the ball or the call. Even though the Giants blew a sizeable lead and deserved to lose the game given the fact that they laid down like dogs for the 9ers one cannot deny the injustice of the referee shenanigans which gifted the 9ers yet another referee aided win. Once again the NFL had to cut and paste their 49er apologist bile as if this sort of thing is not common in the NFL. Oh wait they are right, its not common place in the NFL unless itís an important 49er game.

                                Does anyone remember the game last year? The NHS describes it best in this snippet.

                                So when 12 seconds into it, an important game for the 9ers was being dictated by an inexplicable referee reversal to give the 9ers a touchdown on the opening kickoff, followed minutes later with a penalty negating a would-be 9ers turnover on a kick return, followed by several more of the classic "referee huddles" throughout the afternoon, fans nodded and understood. Even if the Rams injury-depleted split squad came to compete today (which they didn't), the script already had cast them as losers.

                                The opening minutes were the 49er Problem in a nutshell. As the 9ers broke open the opening kick return, the "flag" message clearly appeared during the run-back. No big whoop, all seasoned NFL fans are well accustomed to having penalties negate good returns. The ref signaled the illegal block against the 9ers, and the game was set to start with the 9ers mired deep in their own territory.

                                But wait! Someone, somewhere instead decided that it wasn't a...
                                -10-01-2004, 08:54 PM
                              • FirebirdRamsam
                                The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
                                by FirebirdRamsam
                                The good.......there was very little in the saints game.
                                The bad.........there was alot!!!
                                The Ugly........ditto!!!

                                I was kind of afraid that the saints were going to pull off a victory. If anyone read my last post which read: Will the saints go marching on. It talks about a possibility of them having our number. For some reason the team plays with added intense due to their coach and team mates being fired up since we have been ex-superbowl winners who have won with bull **** flee flickers and screens and fancy plays. The saints coach seems to think that we are a bunch of crap players with crappy non-football plays.

                                Truth is, the Rams beat the Rams fair and square!!! We lost the game due to silly penaltys, fumbles, interceptions, costly errors, un-special teams, blown plays and a missed field goal. If we played error free football or at least hanged on to the ball without giving it away with our fumbles and interceptions, we would have won yet as murphy's law plays out so many sundays, it was a game of 'what can go wrong will go wrong' and to think that the Rams are exempt from murphys law is wrong! It was bound to happen and I say good, why?

                                Well, lets just say that the next time we play the saints on their turf, it will be a different game. We should learn from our mistakes and hopefully on the next meeting, we will be playing with a healthy Faulk, and fumbleless game, a zero interception, a game plan that will have many flee flickers, trick plays so that it will inferiate the saints coach and perhaps a few on side kicks to boot ;-). I think that the Rams have learned a valuable experience of this loss and that if they can bounce back and play with added aggression due to this loss, perhaps this will propel them into the nfc playoffs.

                                This game against the saints truely was a horror film for the players as well as the fans and we didn't even get to see georgia for her halloween yearly appearance :mask: , darn!!! I believe that we see the saints mid december again. I will hope that we will bring with us a more intense game plan and an error free game in the georgia dome so that it can erase this bad taste that this last game left. And I hope that Martz will remember what the saint's coach said about the Rams and their so called plays so that he can fire up the team to seek revenge. I honestly don't think that the saints coach should be talking smack until he takes his team to the big dance and wins the big one! Rememeber, we walked the walk and can talk the talk since we are a past victorious superbowl team.

                                We now have a 'bye' week to rest, gather our thoughts and hopefully allow Faulk to return with 100% healed on his knee.
                                I predict a victory againt Carolina after the return from the bye week yet I will go out on a limb and
                                I guarantee a victory (IE: Joe Namath/broadway Joe) against the...
                                -10-29-2001, 06:45 PM
                              • Nick
                                Rams deserve to play in the Super Bowl, even if they got some help to make it there
                                by Nick
                                The Rams deserve to play in the Super Bowl, even if they got some help to make it there
                                By Jerry Brewer
                                WP Columnist
                                January 20 at 9:40 PM

                                NEW ORLEANS ó If you love controversy and hate the idea of the Los Angeles Rams, then it will be easy to discredit what they accomplished Sunday at the earsplitting Superdome. You will brand them lucky. You might even suggest the NFL conspired to get their big-name, pass-interfering fannies into the Super Bowl. When a great game includes a bad call at a critical moment, itís hard to separate the spectacular from the dirty.

                                It is a much simpler ó and lazier ó task to rag on the serial carpetbagging franchise, which is now back in Hollywood with a glamorous roster to match and experiencing a meteoric resurgence that belies the difficulty of its journey. Donít get carried away with the outrage, however. The messy officiating is only one part of the story. It shouldnít overshadow that the Rams, for all their star power and offensive brilliance and clever coaching, proved to be more than just stylish in becoming the first road team in six seasons to win a conference championship game.

                                In a 26-23 overtime victory against the New Orleans Saints, Los Angeles captured a wild and hard-broiled NFC championship game and advanced to Super Bowl LIII. It took everything that the Rams had, and it also took a controversial no-call on a clear pass interference penalty when cornerback Nickell Robey-Coleman clobbered Tommylee Lewis on third down with 1:45 remaining in regulation. If a penalty had been called, Saints quarterback Drew Brees would have been given a new set of downs, and Coach Sean Payton would have taken the opportunity to run down the clock and set up a field goal attempt on the gameís final play. Instead, Wil Lutz made a 31-yard kick to give New Orleans a 23-20 lead with 1:41 remaining, which gave the Rams time to drive 45 yards and tie the game with a Greg Zuerlein 48-yarder with 19 seconds left.

                                There was plenty of football before and after the no-call, but that moment defined the game. It was a shame. But the shame belongs to the referees, not the Rams.

                                They still won this game on an incredible kick by Zuerlein, who lived up to his ďGreg the LegĒ nickname and drilled a 57-yard try in overtime to send Los Angeles into euphoria. It was the longest winning field goal in playoff history, and even though it came in the friendly kicking confines of a dome, Zuerlein made it with 73,028 fans creating so much noise the stadium shook. When he split the uprights and the Rams players and coaches ran onto the field to celebrate, the Superdome fell silent instantly, as if someone had pressed the mute button on a remote.

                                The Rams still won this game by recovering from a disastrous first quarter and overcoming a 13-0 deficit. They did it with running back Todd Gurley II, their best weapon, gaining just 10 yards on four carries and...
                                -01-22-2019, 05:57 AM
                              • RamDez
                                La rams ---- superbowl bound
                                by RamDez
                                LA RAMS ---- SUPERBOWL BOUND

                                What can you say.

                                Yes, it was PI ................

                                But in the end, our very stout D turned up and made us the NFC Champions

                                Man, its been a great ride...
                                -01-20-2019, 04:43 PM
                              • Barry Waller
                                The Immaculate Reception and Bert Emmanuel Play Complaints Don't Hold Water
                                by Barry Waller
                                Watching this show about the most unbelievable play in NFL history, that started t alk of replay and changed the rule book. Of course every RAider and Raider fan is screaming bloody murder to t his day, about what they say are t hree no calls on that play.

                                They claim the NFL wanted them to lose and they got cheated, but as I look at this play, after so many years, so many times, some t hings sem clear.

                                1. The Steelers did nothing intentionally deceptive or illegal, on that 4th and 10 play, they just got very very lucky, as lucky as anyone ever, especially since Franco Haris HAD to score on that play or time runs out. Now the Raiders? They actually DID intentionally cheat to win a game, with the fumbleroosky play, They Changed the rule on that deal too so it CAN'T happen again, as they did the rule on a touched ball, so one like the Immaculate reception would ALWAYS be good.

                                2. Conspriracy theory One, that Frenchy Fuqua touched the ball.
                                Fact: The film is unclear who touche the ball, and the way it went backwards t hat far, shows that the impetus was caused by Jack Tatum trying to make a knockout hit, rather t han just stop the reception, or even just tackle Fuqua after t he catch.
                                If he does that, game over time runs out.

                                Fact, even if Fuqua and Tatum both touched the ball, under old rule, still good, play continues. If called good by Referee with instant replay, video is clearly incomclusive. AND now under new rule, doesn't matter who touched the ball.

                                3. Villapiano wasn't clipped. The video does clearly show a hit from the side, at most a very borderline foul, one that would be roundly criticized if it were to decide a game. You must have a clear cut clip to make tht call.

                                Also with the ball going every which way, the greatest officials in the world would have a hard time having just the right view of that block, especially the umpire, who would have been the guy making that call from the middle of the field.

                                It was no more a clip that Az Hakim on the Ike Bruce TD play in the SB win.

                                And also, there is no assurance that the 6-2 220lb Villipiano, no doubt exhausted, so much that a weak block knocked him sideways, would have tackled the 6-2 230lb Harris, no doubt a much fresher player at that point.

                                It would have taken a Mike Jones effort.

                                4. "Harris trapped the ball" Again a very tough call for officials on such a play, and no evidence exists that it was a trap, or at least t hat the tip of t he ball touched t he ground. Once again that rule has been changed, the Bert Emmanual rule they call it. If ruled a catch, still a catch with replay, unless todays replays would show at least one clearer view.

                                Again, the refs have a split second to be looking in the right direction, and once the ball flies backwards, I doubt if anyone but Harris even sees it....
                                -03-23-2013, 09:35 AM