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Rabid's Rants on Warner

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  • #1

    Rabid's Rants on Warner

    I just read the Rabid's Rants this week, and do agree with him to a certain extent. 18 INT's for any QB is high, extremely high. However, certain circumstances have been the cause for some of these.

    1. Warner's thumb. It still hasn't been right since he hurt it. The deep ball is MIA really this year, but I believe Martz is as close to Woody Hayes as Bill Clinton is to George W. Completely different individuals.

    2. Martz's play calling. MM abandonded the run in early games this year way to quickly, i.e. NO and TB at home. Anytime you come out slinging 15 or so pass plays to start the game, conventional thinking on INT's is out the window.

    3. Tipped passes. How many of these INT's have come from passes that the WR's have let go through their hands and right into the deep corners? At least 4 I can think of.

    One thing noticeable recently about the change in Warner is MM's prodding for Warner to move a little more. I watched the Fox Sports Special on Warner and he moved quite a bit in the Arena League. He wasn't Flutie, but he wasn't Jim Hart either.

    I think Martz is addressing the Warner situation because no one else was banging the drum for Warner. Everyone was talking Favre, K. Stewart, or Garcia, but Warner just kept winning. Shoot, he has directed the Rams to a 12-2 record and perfect on the road.


    I think the INT's can be reduced by both Warner throwing the ball away when nothing is there instead of trying to thread the needle everytime. Also, we have seen an increase in the running game lately, causing D's to play us closer. Both Warner and Martz can be blamed for the INT's, but I don't think he wants to grab Warners facemask and shake it anytime soon.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    In this high flying style of offense, you can come to expect interceptions. Fans whine about the Rams not going deep enough, but that is where most of the interceptions occur. Warner's thumb was a big factor early on, but ever since he (finally) had it treated, he hasn't done that bad, as far as interceptions go. We all know one thing leads to another, and with the condition of Warner's thumb, it's smart not to go deep that often. Be careful what you wish for.

    Also, it's not like Warner's talent is fading. Many talented quarterbacks are known to at some time have problems with interceptions. Brett Favre and Peyton Manning are just two examples.

    Overall, the game of football is about winning. And 12-2 ain't bad.

    :ram:

    Comment

    • #3
      The one thing I love about Warner is that he really isnt concerned about stats.The bottom line is winning.Kurt stated that he absolutely hates losing.I really dont think Kurt is that concerned about being MVP.I believe his main concern is another Superbowl ring.Same goes for Faulk.Both these guys are team players.That is what I love most about the Rams.It's all about the team and winning.As fans,we cant ask for much more than that.




      :angryram: GO RAMS! STAY FOCUSED! WIN!:shield:
      ST.LOUIS RAMS:THE MOST FRUSTRATING TEAM IN THE NFL!!!

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      • #4
        I kind of understand what Warner must be going through with his thumb. I jammed mine playing in a pick up game with friends. After that it bothered me just trying to grip it. So I just imagine how hard it is for him in a real game where every play matters. So with that I think he has done a pretty good job this year. Even though it did seem to take him a little to realize that the thumb was a problem. Next year I see him cutting down on his interceptions a great deal.

        Comment

        • #5
          I disagree that the cause of Warner's INTs are long passes and juggled catches. I'm not keeping count but it seems most of his INTs are caused by LBs and DBs shading the middle and watching his eyes and also tipped balls at the line of scrimmage.

          The latter is a big concern because Warner has stated that balls tipped at the line are not his fault.....Joe Montana could tell him otherwise. While he has the sweetest release and the best accuracy since maybe ever I hope he can still learn the lessons needed to help the Rams repeat.

          Comment

          • #6
            This may be a silly analogy but here it goes....

            A QB is alot like a goaltender in hockey in that he needs that 1st completion like a goalie needs that 1st save to get him into the rhythm of the game. It seems to me that Warner has struggled badly with pics against teams that have an agressive pash rush from their front four...he seems to struggle getting his rhythm whenever he has a shaky start and in come the INTs as he tends to force things.

            His thumb, tipped passes and Warner are all causes of his INT's but I would like to see the Rams be more agressive on 1st and 2nd down when opening the game against pass rushing teams like the Bucs. Conwell and Marshall need to be setup as blockers, only breaking out into a pattern if there is no blitz or no effective pass rush on the play.

            Finally, lets face it, the Rams don't dominate with the run as has been evident with the struggles against strong run defenses in goalline situations.

            I was happy to see Warner air it out a few times today, keeps the D honest. I'm not so sure teams have been respecting the Rams deep game like they did in 99 and this has led to a congested secondary -- thus Warner forces the ball and INT's occur. Today had to be a solid mental boost for the Rams heading into the playoffs.

            Finally, Rams receivers have let passes slip through their fingers that were catchable and instead of a 18 yard gain the Rams turn it over. The receivers have to practice ball protection like everyone else if the Rams are going to win it all this year.

            Go Rams :shield:

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            • #7
              I don't know how any Ram fan can complain about Warner, the guy's a living legend. Keep it goin' KURT!!!!!!!!!!!!:wiseman:

              Comment

              • #8
                Excellent post TX! I have to agree, that stat on paper will fool ya. Warner, espeically early on in the year has had a slew of passes bobbled by the reciever and then picked off. Not his fault.

                However, Kurt's INTs tend to come in bunches.

                Good point TX! Now go down to Crawford and ring in the new year with "W"!

                Republican Ram

                Comment

                • #9
                  ESPN likes Warner

                  Every time I read a current article on ESPN.com it seems another writer is choosing Warner as MVP. That is great!! How and who votes? I know in baseball it is the baseball writers, 2 from each city, and they vote before post season. Is it the same for the NFL?

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Update on Warner

                    Since Warner took a cortisone injection November 17th, here are his stats for those 7 games:

                    2,242 yards passing
                    67.5 completion percentage
                    Passer Rating: 111.7
                    19 TD's
                    7 INT's


                    And the deep ball is back as witnessed yesterday. The INT yesterday is off a play we really haven't ran successful much this year: the TE screen. Get rid of that play MM. Use TE to block for Marshall on a screen or go vertical.

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                    • Nick
                      Warner's the man, at least to Warner
                      by Nick
                      Warner's the man, at least to Warner

                      First published: Thursday, August 19, 2004

                      ALBANY -- He's still the quarterback who takes teams to Olympus. Still the quarterback whose passing statistics are a fantasy of flight. Still the quarterback whose grocery-bags-to-NFL-MVP story felt as good as a kiss.
                      Kurt Warner is convinced of this.

                      He's gone from superstar to waiver wire. Untouchable to unwanted. At the end in St. Louis, the Rams were as eager to show Warner the door as he was to pass through it. He was signed by the Giants to be a mentor and stopgap, until Eli Manning is ready. Everything in Warner's career has changed -- but him, he insists.

                      In nearly every player's career there comes a time when his skills, as Bill Belichick once said of Bernie Kosar's, diminish. Age and injuries make mortals of all. The player knows when he enters the winter of his career, but he won't publicly admit it.

                      Warner, now 33, says he's the same quarterback, and because he's friendly, and gracious with his time, you want to believe him.

                      But you don't.

                      Once, Warner led the Greatest Show on Turf. Now, he's trying to hold Manning at bay long enough to audition for a starting job with another team next season. That's not the same at all.

                      There has never been an NFL player like Kurt Warner. From stock boy to wonder boy to oh boy, what happened. It would be as if Greg Maddux had gone from video store clerk to Cy Young control artist to a pitcher who stopped throwing strikes, though Warner doesn't see it that way. The Rams' 0-8 record in his last eight games as a starter didn't change Warner's opinion of himself.

                      "You have to say, 'Did Kurt Warner lose those eight games because Kurt Warner didn't play well, or did the Rams lose those last eight games because the team didn't play well?' " Warner said. "I think that's where people sometimes get skewed in their opinion."

                      Warner doesn't mention that the Rams were 18-4 the past two seasons when Marc Bulger started at quarterback. Granted, win-loss percentage isn't everything. But it's something. And playing on the same team, with the same players, Bulger enjoyed success while Warner flopped. But if Warner's fumbling 14 times and throwing 11 interceptions with only four touchdowns in those eight games have cracked his confidence, he conceals it behind his disarming smile.

                      "I feel like I can play as well as anybody in this league," Warner said. "I can still play this game. I don't plan on being average."

                      Thing is, average would be an improvement.

                      One trait players like in their quarterback: accountability. They respect a guy who accepts criticism when warranted and shares praise when deserved. But in a recent conversation, this is as close as Warner came to acknowledging he performed...
                      -08-22-2004, 11:40 AM
                    • RamDez
                      Kurt Warner – A Fond Farewell To A Great Man
                      by RamDez
                      Kurt Warner – A Fond Farewell To A Great Man
                      By Barry Waller
                      June 3rd, 2004

                      There are times when covering an NFL team that even the biggest fan
                      might find to be more work than enjoyment. Dealing with professional athletes
                      is a real pain at times, and trying to give fans the true story when so many rumors have sent them into so many directions is even worse. While there are times that the words fly out of a writer’s mind onto the pages he is composing, there are others when sitting down and rehashing the facts to tell a tale is almost excruciating. If I am doing a column twenty years from now, I probably won’t have had to labor over a story as much as this one.

                      Oh, sure, nobody died, no beloved sports figure met his maker far too young on the day after Memorial Day, which is the toughest stuff to cover from a personal side; but in a lot of ways, it seems like something truly died for Ramsnation when the team released Kurt Warner. When the long predicted move was made official this past Wednesday however, there was no outcry from Rams fans, no wail of sorrow at a tragic event. Not surprisingly, Warner himself left town with the same class and good feelings that are his trademark.

                      Like a parent, spouse, or child who has seen a loved one slowly slip away due to illness, those of us who will never forget what #13 meant to a team and a city have little emotion left to give as the irreversible end finally came. They have gone through the same predictable emotions of anger, denial, bargaining, and depression, then a numb acceptance of our fate, as cancer victims, ever since Kurt Warner began showing he was human after all. Ironically, the most incredible and improbable feel good story in NFL history involved a man who embodies everything decent about the human animal, despite his immortal like play when at his best.

                      As the negative stories and feelings about Warner as the Rams quarterback appeared, they acted upon his legacy like tumors on bodily organs, some spreading and mutating to other areas. We may never know how the negative vibes played a part in what so quickly turned a two time MVP passer into a backup. If Warner shines with the Giants, another team needing the kind of miracle that Warner gave Rams fans and the world in 1999, maybe it will provide a bit of a clue.

                      I was at Warner’s last start, in the Meadowlands against those same Giants, and as painful as it was having to suffer with him on that day, and suffer the slings and arrows of Giants fans during and following the game, I feel blessed that I got to see as much as I could of Kurt Warner in person. It was that personal contact over the past six seasons that makes his inexplicable fall from grace so distressing.

                      In the NFL, everyone knows the salary cap, and other factors makes it nearly impossible to keep players for entire careers, something Rams fans have had to...
                      -06-06-2004, 03:38 AM
                    • Guest's Avatar
                      It is possible that I have uncovered the "Biggest Enemy of the Truth"
                      by Guest
                      If I could crawl through the phone line I'd grab this poor excuse of a human being by his tie and head butt him until he admitted that all he is capable of writing is tabloid bile.

                      I give you Ralph Wiley. (Currently sleazing around at espn.com)


                      {BEGIN}
                      Kurt Warner was awful before breaking his pinkie, so how good will he be upon his return?
                      Kurt Warner
                      So what if his passing rating is a lifetime 107.0, or whatever? Who even knows what that means? I follow the NFL, know the history of it, have studied it loosely, and I don't know what it means. If it means the likes of Warner, his current nemesis Marc Bulger and Jim Zorn are among the 10 best quarterbacks ever to play, then maybe the NFL quarterback rating is the real Fraud here.

                      There's plenty of fraud left for Warner. The purist would point out Warner amassed big stats by being the happy beneficiary of a 1970s secret experiment of having pronghorn antelope, impala and bighorn sheep recombinant DNA injected into the ovum of the mothers of men named Holt, Bruce, Hakim, Proehl, Faulk and Canidate. Once assembled in St. Louis, they ran crazy, Martzian pass routes, catching Warner's passes, then using them like relay batons, staging a track meet in always perfect conditions on an artificial surface Jesse Owens would've run an 8.3 on. Under those terms, my grandmother would have a rating of 100.3, and she's dead. Warner's "rating" is the best of all time. Bulger's rating of 106.7 is second-best all time, yet he's only played five games.

                      Fact or Fraud?

                      A purist would point out that of the three biggest games of Warner's career, he won the first two, including an 11-6 squeaker over Tampa Bay in the 2000 NFC Championship Game. Eleven whole points, on that fast track, with that menagerie! Purists in Tampa point out Proehl bailed out Warner with a great end zone catch. (Tampa purists wonder if it was a catch at all, and say if it was a catch, then it surely was a catch Bert Emanuel made when they were driving for the winning TD a few minutes later; and yet Shaun King is nobody's Legend. Except at Tulane, where they still think highly of him, for some reason.)

                      In that year's Super Bowl against Tennessee, the Volunteer State purists say the Rams only won the game when Warner heaved up a prayer with less than two minutes left that the impalalike Bruce waited on for days to come down, then cut back underneath coverage, then cut back around a dazed safety Anthony Dorsett to complete the play. Warner got MVP for that?

                      But then, of course, Steve McNair wasn't as fortunate, and the Titans came up a yard short. This gave Dick Vermeil a Super Bowl ring after 20 years of walking in the wilderness, and set in motion his departure from St. Louis, then his arrival in Kansas City, with Trent Green, a QB who'd legitimately beaten out Warner, but who then lost his job because of...
                      -05-06-2005, 01:05 AM
                    • Yodude
                      Insider: Warner earns vindication, another turn on top
                      by Yodude
                      Oct. 13, 2004
                      By Pete Prisco
                      SportsLine.com Senior Writer
                      Tell Pete your opinion!



                      Insider | Notebook | Mailbag
                      New York Giants quarterback Kurt Warner is on a cell phone, driving somewhere in New Jersey, talking about his new team and his new situation. As he speaks, he sounds more upbeat than he has in years, which is saying something because this is one happy dude.

                      "I'm loving it here," Warner said.


                      Showing vintage form so far, Kurt Warner is proving just how little his critics know.
                      Why wouldn't he? This was a man who was written off the past year, many speculating that his time at the top had come and gone. They said his 15 minutes of fame were over.

                      That feel-good story of grocery stock boy to league MVP was nice at the time, but as quick as he rose to the top, it was sure to be followed by talk that he would fall just as fast.

                      Washed up. Over. Done. Finished.

                      Warner heard it all the past couple of seasons, the talk growing from murmurs into a full-blown amplified beat by late last season in St. Louis. Forget his two MVP awards he won with the Rams. Forget his Super Bowl victory after the 1999 season. Forget all the passing numbers.

                      The doubters, including the St. Louis Rams coaches, insisted his time was up.

                      "I guess it's unprecedented what happened to me," Warner said. "To go from where I was to the last two years, it's hard to make sense of it. People formed an opinion on what was wrong with me and they all seemed to jump on the bandwagon. It was easy to come to the conclusion that I wasn't the same player based on the past couple of years. But I never put a lot of stock in what people were saying. I knew what I was capable of doing. The bottom line for me has not been what people think about me, but what the people in my locker room and in the organization think about me. I knew I could still play and still win."

                      He's doing both, too.

                      The Giants are the surprise team of the first five weeks, winning four consecutive games after losing their opener to the Eagles. At 4-1, heading into their bye week Sunday, they are a half game behind Philadelphia in the NFC East.

                      Warner is big reason for the success.


                      So much for his just keeping the seat warm until rookie first-round pick Eli Manning takes over. Warner isn't going anywhere. Not the way he's playing. There had been some talk that Warner would keep the spot until the bye week, and then hand the keys to the car over to the younger kid. That's laughable now.


                      Warner may not be putting up the huge numbers he did with the Rams from 1999-2001, but he is running the offense with precision, he's taking care of the ball and he's getting it out on time.

                      Through...
                      -10-17-2004, 08:21 AM
                    • RamWraith
                      Warner article--sure to drum up a debate. Interesting read
                      by RamWraith
                      Just like with Rams and Giants, Warner out to prove critics wrong
                      By Darren Urban, Tribune


                      The resumé is too long for the story to begin where it once did. Kurt Warner knows that.
                      His past is decorated with two MVP awards, three Pro Bowls, two Super Bowl appearances and a St. Louis fan base that still follows him two stops later.

                      Warner is no longer the nobody who took over at quarterback for the Rams in 1999, but in some ways, he is starting over.

                      He has more doubters than believers, which is where he stood that day St. Louis coach Dick Vermeil made him the starter after Trent Green's season-ending knee injury almost six years ago.

                      And like his Rams back then, his new team in Arizona carries few expectations.

                      "There are a lot of people out there that don't think I can still play, and there's a lot of people out there that don't think this team has a chance to do anything," Warner said. The statistics haven't been gaudy for three years, and for Warner, his history has become his burden. But it is also his proof.

                      "There has never been a story like Kurt Warner's," Cardinals coach Dennis Green said. "It's a result of him believing in himself." Warner still believes. He believes that winning football, if not video game-like stats, remains in him.

                      He believes politics dragged him out of the lineup with both the Rams and the New York Giants. He believes he will be reborn as an NFL starter with the Cardinals this season. And he believes he has lived this scenario before. "It's kind of my story, the underdog story, no chance to have success," Warner said. "It's kind of like what I stepped into in St. Louis.

                      "I get a chance to rewrite my story, and I get a chance to hopefully rewrite the story of the Arizona Cardinals."

                      FROM HERO TO HUMBLED

                      The first version of Warner's story came straight from Hollywood.

                      He was nowhere, bagging groceries at one point after college, eventually thinking a successful arena football career in his native Iowa was as far as the dream might go. Then, in one stunning two-year period, he rose from Iowa Barnstormer to St. Louis Ram as ringleader of the "Greatest Show on Turf."

                      "St. Louis football was dog meat for so long," longtime St. Louis Post-Dispatch columnist Bernie Miklasz said. "Then this mythical character out of a W.P. Kinsella novel walks out of the Iowa cornfields."

                      He won a Super Bowl that first season as a starter. He set team records. He was one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. And he was a good person, friendly almost to a fault, a sports hero fans could feel good about embracing.

                      Warner was going to be a Ram forever.

                      That he isn't now, "flabbergasts me a little bit," Warner                      ...
                      -05-14-2005, 06:25 AM
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